THE THOUGHTLESSNESS OF THE STANDARD LIBERAL DEMOCRAT RESPONSE — PART 1

What would you do with this comment?

sklyjd

I think you may not understand Tom. Stability and common sense will always win, for example having QAnon, Fox and Trump etc lie about the election and the Democratic paedophile ring of Obama and Clinton under a pizza shop along with many other lies that are seen as the most ridiculous accusations by most of the population and the rest of the world does not help the Republican cause, all it does is alienate people who believe this weird stuff. Obviously the Democratic party is going to take political advantage of this and ride it all the way. Sure you have some good sensible people in the GOP however they seem to be overridden by the ones who always continue with wild and stupid ideals and comments ruining any credibility the party ever had.

from => https://citizentom.com/2023/01/11/what-liberal-democrats-want-us-believe-about-their-self-or-their-perfect-goodness-2/comment-page-1/#comment-106726

Did sklyjd address anything I wrote in the post? No. At best, sklyjd resorted to the standard Liberal Democrat response, the moral equivalence argument. That is, it is okay for Democrats lie because Republicans lie. Ironically, however, all his examples are essentially Democrat lies.

Stability and common sense will always win.

Since President Donald Trump left office, we are now supposed to believe the adults are in charge again, but what have Liberal Democrats done? How have they demonstrated either stability or commonsense? Do humongous multi-trillion-dollar spending bills lead to economic stability? How does lumping earmarks, new laws, and everything else they can think of for every constituency that they want to reward into one gigantic bill nobody has read demonstrate a commonsense way to spend our money?

Consider our own lack of commonsense. We either voted for or didn’t oppose the election of Liberal Democrats with sufficient vigor. Do we expect people who cannot tell us the difference between a man and a woman to have any commonsense? Then why have we put these people in charge of our country? Why didn’t we oppose the election of such people with all the vigor we could muster? Don’t we care about our family, friends, neighbors, and countrymen?

QAnon and the Democratic paedophile ring

What is QAnon? Until a Liberal Democrat brought it up, I had never heard of QAon. Why is that? I check stories in the Liberal Democrat news media, but the Liberal Democrat news media is so misleading and so full of misinformation I find it obnoxious. So, I listen to or read the Liberal Democrat news media when I do research for my blog posts. Of course, the Liberal Democrat news media is the best source for QAnon. QAnon: What is it and where did it come from? provides a brief rundown of what QAnon is supposed to be.

The story about the Democratic paedophile ring that sklyjd brought up has been dubbed Pizzagate. Pizzagate was essentially an Internet rumor that led to some violence. This article, The saga of ‘Pizzagate’: The fake story that shows how conspiracy theories spread, explains the origin of the stories about that Democratic paedophile ring. Again, I first heard about the story from Liberal Democrats. The Conservative news media covered it, but quickly adopted a skeptical perspective.

Few Republicans have made very much out of either QAnon or Pizzagate. This article, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene says she ‘regrets’ believing QAnon conspiracy, is about a new congresswoman taken in by the QAnon conspiracy theory who says she regrets believing it.

Pizzagate had almost nothing to do with Republicans. Consider. When the Internet was first taking off, people use to spread nonsense using chain emails. When people sent chain emails to me, I had fun with them. I did posts (see email hoaxes). Since Twitter and Facebook rumors have replaced chain emails, I have not seen one in years. I still don’t know who fabricates these things.

Nevertheless, the Liberal Democrat news media makes use of Internet rumors. In this case, the Liberal Democrat news media used Anon and Pizzagate to establish guilt by association. Since Rep. Greene was taken in, the entire Republican Party now consists of QAnon Conspiracy theorists.

Why did anyone get taken in by QAnon and/or Pizzagate? Why do relatively smart people so often believe lies? When I use to examine email hoaxes, I observed a pattern. A good lie is half true. Ever hear of Jeffrey Epstein? That man, accused of sex trafficking minors, died under mysterious circumstances (Jeffrey Epstein dead from apparent suicide in Manhattan jail cell; FBI investigating), and he had connections with important people.

Consider also that Liberal Democrats enthusiastically promote abortion and the LGBTQ agenda. Their goals include denying life-saving care to the unborn who survive an abortion procedure, transgendering minors (even when their parents object), and fighting for drag queen story hour for children at public libraries. Arguably, what the Democratic Party already advocates is as bad as promoting pedophilia. So, because they were so close to the truth, some people believed the QAnon and Pizzagate rumors.

When we hear something we expect to be true or want to believe, we forget to verify whether or not it that something is true or not. If that something is an email, a Tweet, or a Facebook post from someone we respect, we assume it must be true. We forget they might be just as lazy as we are. They may not have verified the content of their email, Tweet, or Facebook post.

In fact, the accuracy of the news media is often worse than that of Internet rumors. Some publications and broadcasts will deliberately deceive us. We expect them to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, but they don’t. Their favorite trick, because it doesn’t seem to be an overt lie, is to withhold information, that is, to withhold the whole truth. Similarly, because it doesn’t seem to be an overt lie, they relay lies from unnamed sources. If they cannot even name their sources, their stories are worthless gossip. Nevertheless, news media nearly destroyed the Trump presidency using unnamed sources spreading baseless rumors.

To Be Continued

  • Part 2: An example of Conservative news media misrepresentation.
  • Part 3: Conclusion

23 thoughts on “THE THOUGHTLESSNESS OF THE STANDARD LIBERAL DEMOCRAT RESPONSE — PART 1

Add yours

  1. “Consider also that Liberal Democrats enthusiastically promote abortion and the LGBTQ agenda.”

    The argument is that women should be in charge of their own bodies, just like the anti-vaxers have claimed. All medical operations, medicines and treatments have to be of our own choosing, unless of course unable due to medical problems.

    LGBTQ is not forced upon children, most responsible parents want their children to grow up naturally understanding the differences within society and make up their own minds and believe what they want, when they want. I believe that the situation of education has ramped up regarding LGBTQ people for children is an answer to counter the relentless indoctrination of children by mainstream religions and the hateful doctrine that many theists actively promote against the LGBTQ people. Do not forget atheists are a growing force in the US and a lot of theists are pro-abortion and give their support to LGBTQ people.

    “what the Democratic Party already advocates is as bad as promoting pedophilia, some people believed the QAnon and Pizzagate rumors.”

    Yep, this is exactly how the news works on Hannity and Fox, you take an issue and muddy it and convert it into a worse issue as much as possible. If anyone has forgotten it was Christian preachers who made paedophilia famous.

    “When we hear something we expect to be true or want to believe, we forget to verify whether or not it that something is true or not.”

    For such issues that are so blatantly stupid, it says a hell of a lot about the people who believed QAnon and Pizzagate BS.

    “news media nearly destroyed the Trump presidency using unnamed sources spreading baseless rumors.”

    “Trump described QAnon activists as “people who love our country.” (BBC)

    Well, talk about putting your head in a noose especially when you have denied knowing of them but they turn up to all your rallies with flags and signs. This kind of issue and many many more lies are what destroyed Trump’s presidency.

    1. Well, you quoted the first part. Did you stop reading after that? No, but you did skip part of what I wrote.

      Consider also that Liberal Democrats enthusiastically promote abortion and the LGBTQ agenda. Their goals include denying life-saving care to the unborn who survive an abortion procedure, transgendering minors (even when their parents object), and fighting for drag queen story hour for children at public libraries. Arguably, what the Democratic Party already advocates is as bad as promoting pedophilia. So, because they were so close to the truth, some people believed the QAnon and Pizzagate rumors.

      Follow the science. Conception is a choice. When a man and a women conceive a child, that child is a distinctly separate human being. The real, unspoken issue for abortion advocates is dependency. We tend to dislike someone who cannot give us anything dependent upon us. That is why the same people who support abortion also support euthanasia. Of course, for the sake of political power, some politicians have nationalized charitable institutions, including health care. Now they are looking for ways to focus public spending on their constituencies so they can buy the most votes.

      LGBTQ is not forced upon children? That is laughable. There are only two biological sexes. Why are we debating who can use the women’s restroom in public schools?

      When parents don’t want their children transgendered, why are schools trying to transgender their children?

      Consider your own words.

      LGBTQ is not forced upon children, most responsible parents want their children to grow up naturally understanding the differences within society and make up their own minds and believe what they want, when they want. I believe that the situation of education has ramped up regarding LGBTQ people for children is an answer to counter the relentless indoctrination of children by mainstream religions and the hateful doctrine that many theists actively promote against the LGBTQ people. Do not forget atheists are a growing force in the US and a lot of theists are pro-abortion and give their support to LGBTQ people.

      You have an agenda to force your views upon other people’s children. Obviously, your agenda is more important to you than reading, writing, and arithmetic.

      Trump described QAnon activists as “people who love our country. — BBC

      This article puts the quote in context. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-qanon-conspiracy-theory-first-time

      You are mad at Trump because he did not take the bait and hate on the people you want him to hate, but think about what you are advocating. If Trump doesn’t despise someone you despise, you want the rest of us to treat Trump as someone who is despicable and worthless. What do you do with despicable and worthless people? Don’t you abort them or euthanize them?

      How are we supposed to react to you? There are plenty of people who think just like you. After Nazis and Communists have murdered tens of millions to make certain people think just the right thought, are we are supposed to detest QAnon and Pizzagate conspiracy theorists or you? Who should we put at the top of our hate list?

      It makes sense to have a list of sins we detest, but do we really need a list of people we detest. We are all sinners. Do we all want to be on our neighbor’s hate list?

      All who live by the sword will die by the sword. — https://www.gotquestions.org/live-die-by-the-sword.html

      1. “You have an agenda to force your views upon other people’s children.”
        How did you twist that ? I merely intended to say that LGBTQ is on the education list due to the hateful attitudes spewed into the communities by theists. What normal parent would want their children growing up with these sick anti-LGBTQ attitudes such as your LGBTQ views of events are clearly exaggerations. We are supposed to be tolerant of each other, the religions, politics, colour and gender should not matter because we are all humans trying to live a peaceful life together, and it can be done if fanatics would cease attacking those who are different.

        Trump lied his arse off and still does, think about that and try to believe he is of Presidential quality. He is despicable he endorsed the Proud Boys, therefore he did hate people and as a loving so called Christian President at the time his job was to protect citizens. And FYI I do not hate or despise anyone apart from probably Putin at this moment and yes you are right this man will likely die by the sword.

        1. How did I twist that? When we say something, we have said what we have said. We can correct what we have said, but we cannot change what we have said.

          The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
          Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
          Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
          Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it. ― Omar Khayyám

          What have you said?

          LGBTQ is not forced upon children, most responsible parents want their children to grow up naturally understanding the differences within society and make up their own minds and believe what they want, when they want. I believe that the situation of education has ramped up regarding LGBTQ people for children is an answer to counter the relentless indoctrination of children by mainstream religions and the hateful doctrine that many theists actively promote against the LGBTQ people. Do not forget atheists are a growing force in the US and a lot of theists are pro-abortion and give their support to LGBTQ people. (https://citizentom.com/2023/01/15/the-thoughtlessness-of-the-standard-liberal-democrat-response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-106776)

          You are trying to have it both ways.

          Let’s consider your basic argument. It starts like this: “What normal parent would want their children growing up with these sick anti-LGBTQ attitudes such as your LGBTQ views of events are clearly exaggerations……” Our Senate just confirmed the appointment of Supreme Court Justice who could not define the word “woman.” How is a justice supposed to defend the rights of women if she doesn’t know what one is?

          What is the basic dividing line between those who want nothing to do with the LGBTQ agenda and those who do. Those who support the traditional Christian view of sex and marriage put the focus on producing and raising Godly and healthy children. We seek children who will become productive citizens and give glory to God. The LGBTQ agenda equates sex with love. The LGBTQ agenda puts sexual pleasure before children because it puts self before the love of neighbor. Hence, your definition of peace requires that the “fanatics” give up and agree with you or we are hateful.

          Similarly, it doesn’t matter if Trump actually lies or not. Because he disagrees with your agenda, he is by definition a liar. So, you don’t have to bother to check out whether the news media has taken something he said out of context. You can hate Trump to your heart’s content and blame everything upon him.

          When we put our self before God, we try to replace the truth with our own truth. That is a form of insanity that explains why the first black woman on the Supreme Court cannot define the word “woman.”

  2. No one knows what to believe anymore because we the people are caught up in a war of propaganda and misinformation and censorship and , as you said, partial truths . It has been very effective at dividing otherwise normal , rational, and civil peoples along party lines. Most of us will vote for anyone but a democrat and vice versa . And you’re right , those bizarre stories were cooked up by insiders and do contain some facts. But when both sides have lost respect for each other and even hate and have contempt for the other without ever even having a real conversation, the battle for truth is lost .

    1. Largely true. I suspect there are quite a few independents who don’t know what to believe. And yes, the news media has helped to promote our fears of each other.

      Consider this quote.

      It isn’t so much that liberals are ignorant. It’s just that they know so many things that aren’t so. — from A Time for Choosing Speech, October 27, 1964 | Ronald Reagan (reaganlibrary.gov)

      I would observe that most of the dishonesty is coming from one side. Part of that is a practical problem. When the Conservative news media is caught in a lie, the Liberal Democrat news media, which is dominant, will milk it for all it is worth. And Conservatives will hear about it. Most of the Liberal Democrats I know consider it some kind of sin to listen to Conservative news media. So, the factchecking is largely one-way.

      Think about how weird this is. Liberal Democrats refuse to consider the possibility that a news media run by corporations they supposedly don’t trust is lying to them. What should we make of that?

      What about the Republican side? Republicans are not saints, but Republicans at least have enough sense to distrust our leaders. When our leaders are doing something that doesn’t work, we are less likely to give them more power to “fix” a mess that would not exist if they had not tried to “fix” it in the first place, but Democrats do that all the time.

      1. I think both sides have certain people that they consider bad guys that they do not trust and people/groups that they automatically trust or give a pass to. But I hear you. I listen to NPR and the things they believe are eye-roll worthy. They are very judgmental, too. But I think both sides can be pretty judgmental. It’s just that the left thinks they AREN’T judgmental. Ha!

        1. It’s just that the left thinks they AREN’T judgmental.

          That is a profound observation.

          Are Conservatives at fault sometimes? Much of the power that Liberals are abusing Conservatives had a role in handing over to our security agencies. So, yes.

          The key difference I think is this. Most Conservatives still retain their Christian roots, which includes the idea that ALL need to be saved. So, Conservatives are more inclined to see Liberals as misguided, foolish, and sinful people who can be redeemed. There are stereotypes promoted by the Conservative news media, but most Conservatives concede Liberal have good intentions. We just know the path to Hell is paved with good intentions.

          We need a revival. How we go about making one happen is a problem only God can solve. We don’t expect man to perfect man. We realize only God can do that.

          On the other hand, many Liberal Democrats think man can perfect man, even those who are Christians. We just need to put the right people in charge, and those people will create a perfect world. Whereas Liberal Democrats think man is basically good — except for President Donald Trump, oddly enough — Conservatives understand man is deeply flawed; we cannot trust our leaders with too much power.

          That said, Democrats, Independents, and Republicans each represent diverse coalitions. So, the labels we put on each group have limited utility. The real distinction is where the two political parties stand on the issues, and the things that Liberal Democrats stand for, the things that are actually in their party platform, are scary.

      2. Use the BBC Tom and even the ABC in Australia or even TVNZ because they do not sharpen their knives against US political parties and they usually send their own investigating journalists for first hand information.

        1. Use your eyes. I cited the BBC twice in article.

          Please note that the BBC is a government sponsored entity. Think about the conflict of interest. Government-run news.

          1. Do you really think the BBC will take sides in American politics and ruin the reputation of the best most accurate news service on the planet? Just because you do not agree with them does not make them biased. Most news sites will of course be somewhat biased against those who commit crimes and are violent that much is understandable. On occasion the creditable news sites may get some facts wrong but lets’ face it, the news is changing all the time, it depends on reporters and the interviewed getting it 100% right, the technicians and technology so therefore nothing is going to be perfect.

          2. Do you really think the BBC will take sides in American politics and ruin the reputation of the best most accurate news service on the planet?

            Are you certain the BBC is the most accurate news service on the planet? If that was true, then the question would answer itself.

            Look at yourself. You are all set to shove your own beliefs into the public school system and force your beliefs upon everyone else. Why? Pride and arrogance. Since there have been human beings, some human beings have been forcing others to bend to their will. Pride and arrogance.

            Do I think it possible that the people who lead the BBC could fall prey to their pride and arrogance? You obviously have. From time to time, I have. Why not them?

            The news media has been referred to as the fourth estate. Why is that? We hold each other accountable. The news media helps us to hold our leaders accountable.

            The better we hold each other accountable the more freedom we have. Freedom is highly important. In a free society we have a better chance of understanding our flaws and correcting them. In a free society we have a better chance of repenting of our sins and accepting Jesus’ offer of salvation.

            In Medieval times, the people divided power between three estates: the clergy, the nobility and the commoners. When people began to appreciate the political power of the news media, they referred to it as the Fourth Estate. Today we formally separate power into the legislative, executive, and judicial powers of government, but the news media remains, albeit informally, the Fourth Estate. When the government begins to control the Fourth Estate, the news media is no longer a separate entity that can hold the other three estates accountable. The British government owns the BBC.

            In the USA our constitutional republic is threatened by crony capitalism. Instead of holding our leaders accountable, Big Tech and Big Media are protecting them. That is not a good situation.

          3. “some human beings have been forcing others to bend to their will. Pride and arrogance.”

            Every one of us is open to corruption, crime, biased opinions, lies etc,etc. A credible news organisation is not controlled by one man or a political party. If they want to be taken seriously bad employees will be held accountable by good employees, whiteblowers, the public, the advertisers and not the government because under the terms of the BBC’s Charter and Agreement: the BBC is operationally and editorially independent of government. there is no provision for the government to intervene in the Corporation’s day-to-day operations. Most people are not stupid enough to swallow lies or suffer poor reporting especially from a leading news site. For example, Mr Hannity would never be able to use their toilet.

            “Look at yourself. You are all set to shove your own beliefs into the public school system and force your beliefs upon everyone else.”

            Ha ha look who’s talking. Personally I do not know exactly what is taught in our schools, however talking to people who do know it does not involve the stuff you have claimed. As I have always said our system is very good compared to yours and I do not shove my beliefs into any school system. My atheist beliefs are a counter to the theist push of religious doctrines onto a secular society and especially the indoctrination of children.

          4. sklyjd

            If the government controls who runs the BBC, the government controls the BBC and its content.

            So, this is silly.

            If they want to be taken seriously bad employees will be held accountable by good employees, whiteblowers, the public, the advertisers and not the government because under the terms of the BBC’s Charter and Agreement: the BBC is operationally and editorially independent of government.

            You don’t think the Nazis and the Communists wanted to be taken seriously?

            Your last paragraph is even more absurd. You don’t know what exactly is taught in your schools, but you know it is better than the schools in my country? You don’t shove your Atheist beliefs into any school system, but your Atheist beliefs are a counter religious indoctrination?

            You are not debating me. You are debating yourself.

    2. I’ve mentioned at my own site the 2013 repeal of the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, otherwise known as the Anti-Propaganda Act. Since that repeal, the Government has been at complete liberty to stick its tentacles into news outlets and social media. Various departments at all levels actually have subdivisions doing exactly that.

      A little-known Court Decision from the Bush years ruled that “First Amendment rights belong to the employers… the court claimed that the FCC policy against falsification of the news does not rise to the level of a ‘law, rule, or regulation,’ it was simply a ‘policy.’ Therefore, it is up to the station whether or not it wants to report honestly.”

      https://www.projectcensored.org/11-the-media-can-legally-lie/?doing_wp_cron=1673909605.0746819972991943359375

      1. I understand why the court ruled that way. The last thing we need is FCC going after news outlets claiming that their stories are false. Can’t you imagine how that would work?

        If someone slanders or libels us, we can sue them. In that case, we can show damage to our reputation, and we can show that the story the news outlet reported was either knowingly or carelessly false. However, what the plaintiffs in this case you cited wanted to do was to force the station to broadcast a story the station’s owner did not want to broadcast.

        Should the station have broadcasted the story the way the plaintiffs wanted? Who is lying? Could it be Project Censored? I don’t know.

        I suppose bovine growth hormone (BGH) is a dubious substance to give milk cows. Did the owners of the station have a moral obligation to broadcast the story the way the plaintiffs wanted? Maybe, but the legal issues and the moral issues are separate matters. Because we cannot trust our leaders with the power to run everything in the country, we usually have to leave most such moral decisions to business owners. The FDA regulates bovine growth hormone (BGH), not the FCC.

        What about the public interest in knowing the truth? We need more competition in the news media, and the Internet has made that imminently possible. We need to fight the growth of monopolies, not for more government control.

        1. That’s a good point. Leaving it to the FCC to decide what Fake News is would be like giving online so-called ‘fact-checkers’ police powers. By extension, though, the repeal of Smith-Mundt means that the Gov’t. can pose as a news agency and can legally lie so that really made things a lot worse. I definitely agree that lack of competition is the main problem. Right now, about 95% of the US media at all levels is controlled by about a dozen transnational companies + the Government. That’s way too much concentrated power in a nation of 340 million.

          1. Agreed!

            Politicians have been lying for a long time, but it doesn’t help when they can use government funding to hire PBS and NPR to repeat their lies or use government funding to buy commercials in the private media. Voters need to discourage such nonsense. There is no need for government funding to be a significant factor in the mass media.

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