I have more than one flaw, of course, but I usually I don’t talk about them. Today is an exception. I like to argue — the euphemism for that is debate — with people. Fortunately, because arguing is a relatively useless activity, I eventually tire of it and move on to something more useful.
Why is arguing largely useless? Well, the people I most disagree with are Liberal Democrats and Atheists. Like most of us, neither Liberal Democrats or Atheists are willing to admit what they believe or what they are doing might be wrong. Why? Pride.
Here are a couple of examples.
When I debated Lobotero, I made the following observation
You attack the religious belief and character of others. Then, when someone calls you on it, you don’t want to debate religion? Curious how that work.
Before we attack someone else, we need to examine our self.https://lobotero.com/2022/08/15/its-that-whiteness-thing/#comment-248889
Here is how lobotero responded.
Bull! I did not attack any religious beliefs….if you think that was an attack then stop wearing your belief on your sleeve. Correct you do need to do that. chuqhttps://lobotero.com/2022/08/15/its-that-whiteness-thing/#comment-248897
I thought about responding and pointing to the following text in his post.
This witch is clueless….apparently she does not realize that her party is already the party of Christian Nationalism…..basically the GOP has turned into the party of Christo-Fascism…..It’s That ‘Whiteness’ Thing (lobotero.com)
Why didn’t I respond? What good would it do? He knows what he wrote.
I ran into a similar problem with John Zande in the comments on this post, One Question for Atheists (silenceofmind.wordpress.com). What question?
Do you believe in God or do you believe that everything just happened all by itself?One Question for Atheists (silenceofmind.wordpress.com)
Predictably, the Atheists who visited Silence of Mind’s post evaded answering his question. Nevertheless, I got Zande to make this observation.
No word games at all. In fact, the only people playing a word games are the theists who say “Something” from “Nothing.” Firstly, who’s to say there was ever nothing? There is no evidence for such a state. We presently cannot even see what was going on before Inflation. From this, I can simply state, There was never nothing. The universe is aseitic. You are confusing a change of state with a beginning.Continued => https://silenceofmind.wordpress.com/2022/08/13/one-question-for-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-18368
If the universe has the property of aseity, that means the university has always been here, that it is self-derived or self-originated. Since Zande seems to have a very high regard for science, I pointed out that the Big Bang Theory indicates that the universe has a beginning, and the second law of thermodynamics indicates that the universe is running out of steam. From that point on Zande got even more confused. Apparently, Zande has a weak understanding of science.
Eventually, Zande even got confused about his own side of the argument. If the universe has universe has always existed that argues against any form of the Big Bang Theory. However, instead of arguing against the Big Bang Theory, Zande argued for a particular model of the Big Bang, Cosmic Inflation. Why? Cosmic Inflation does not begin from that point of singularity we find in the original Big Bang model at time zero.
Oddly, Zande does not seem to grasp the real issue. That point of singularity suggests the creation of something from nothing. So, it is quite important, and the original Big Bang Theory did suggest to many the possibility that God had created the universe by filling a single point with all the matter and energy it needed and letting it explode outward. So, that point of singularity loss favor with Atheists, and it is not difficult to see why, Cosmic Inflation which is currently popular with astronomers, makes Zande happy. That model doesn’t begin with such a distinct point of singularity, although it does look like a distinction without much difference. At 10 to the -43 seconds the density of the universe would have been 10 to the 96 times the density of water? Where did all that come from?
Be that as it may be, even if we accept the Cosmic Inflation model is largely valid, that indicates that our universe had a beginning and that it is running out of steam due to the increasing value of entropy, and that’s crucial. If the universe had a beginning and it is wearing out, it cannot have the property of aseity. If the universe does not have the property of aseity, then it had to be created. Someone had to create the energy and matter which became the universe, Unfortunately, Zande is not about to admit that God created the universe.
What Is Going On?
Am I wrong? Are lobotero or Zande wrong? Check out the comment threads in It’s That ‘Whiteness’ Thing (lobotero.com) and One Question for Atheists (silenceofmind.wordpress.com). Note that the comment thread on One Question for Atheists is kinda of weird. There is a technology glitch of some sort. So, I have linked to page four of the comments to make it easier to follow the exchange between myself and Zande.
Do I think poorly of Liberal Democrats and Atheists? Yep! Why? I make no bones about it (https://writingexplained.org/idiom-dictionary/no-bones-about-it). Socialism does not work. Socialism is a just system for bribing voters with other people’s money. In fact, the policies Liberal Democrats pursue smack of Marxism and look all too much like an attempt to implement Karl Marx’s Communist Manifesto.
It is obvious that like Marx many hard-core Democrats are also Atheists. Since Atheists refuse to acknowledge His existence, many Atheists think more highly of gathering stuff, having sex, using science to justify themselves, enlarging the state, and glorifying their self than they do God. Idolizing stuff, sex, science, state, and self is irrational, and we should wonder why anyone would do that. Unfortunately, too many people do not think there is anything inappropriate about thinking more highly of gathering stuff, having sex, using science to justify themselves, enlarging the state, and glorifying their self than they do God.
Have the idols of stuff, sex, science, state, and self always been so highly regarded in America? Probably not. If not, how did we get to this point? The United States use to have a strong Christian heritage, and that was good. To function at all, the people who make up a society must largely share the same values, and the values promoted by the Bible are the best there is. Unfortunately, we have put politicians in charge of our education system, and for successive generations those politicians have undermined the religious beliefs of the children of this country by providing them with an increasingly secularized education.
What our public schools are currently teaching the children of this nation will most likely lead to the end of our republic. At this point in time, any Americans don’t even know the difference between a republic and a democracy. Yet Liberal Democrats politicians and the Liberal Democrat mass media refuse to acknowledge that what they believe and what they are doing is wrong. Instead, they just call their political opponents names and spew endless accusations. Hence, we only have one practical alternative. To save as many of our children as we can, we must set as many Democrat leaders as we can aside and replace them, and we must do that as quickly as we can.
How can we do that? We must remember that God made us all in His image. Not one of us is special by birth. Not one of us is more special to God until God the Father chooses to bring us to His Son. What makes us different is what we believe and who we choose to follow. What enables to love our neighbor is that we know that God loves us.
What happens when we don’t love our neighbor? Instead of voting for leaders who promise to protect our neighbors’ right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (religious freedom), we vote for politicians who promise us to fill our pocketbooks with other people’s money. We forget that any politician who is so willing to bribe us will also accept bribes. We forget that when a Republican promises to bribe us with other people’s money, that Republican may as well be a Liberal Democrat.
His name escapes me now, but around the year 1998, a noble prize winner in Biochemistry, noted that his previous conclusions were wrong and the only logical answer for them was a being of intelligent design. Yet since he was a committed atheist and refused to believe such a possibility, he would not change his findings.
I have always found the rub in both secular and Christian circles comes down to one final issue “truth.” In science for example it “involves a pursuit of knowledge covering general truths or the operations of fundamental laws”(Britannica) Note these are not always unequivocal truths, although some may be latter proven to be so. Yet far too many demand much of science be taken as if it were 100% proven true. You mention the Big Bang Theory that so many hang their hat on, it should be clear to any middle schooler it is an unproven and unprovable THERORY. Further one must only have to look to the recent COVID chaos to see how science woefully continually fail us.
For a True Christian however the Bible in unequivocally (without doubt or error) true. The issue here is not with the Book or God but with once again with man tampering with the truth. Man will twist the Bible to his or her own liking and interpretation there by negating the sovereignty of God and authority of His Word.
I only wish I had as much faith in God and the Bible as some Atheists have in scientific theories (like the Theory of Evolution) that we don’t have the capacity to prove.
“gathering stuff, having sex,” And Christians do not do this? I think you are not of this world Tom, and these people are real Christians.
When we idolize something, we put that which we idolize before our Creator. We make the pursuit of that which we idolize more important than the glorification of our Creator.
Do Christians gather stuff, have sex, use science, support the state, and glorify themselves? Yep! We do. However, a Christian gathers stuff to help others, has sex within the context of a loving, Biblical marriage, studies science with the understanding this is God’s Creation, supports the state to protect his neighbor, and thanks God when he or she achieves any success.
Reblogged this on boudica.us.
Thanks for the reblog!
Good job again collating all the info CT/ as well as referencing past threads for context.
It is a merry go round of frustration watching the atheistic worldview trying to explain how blood, dirt, gold, coal, water, bones, honey, birds, oceans, and oceans, and oceans appear without Design and purpose.
Hiding behind zillions of years (that cannot be questioned) makes he who has the cleverest imagination win the day.
But to add light to others who say ‘what’s the point’ in speaking to evo’s/ and atheists? It’s not like speaking to a ‘fool’ in person. Blogging is different, where our words have a shelf life, and where people absent today may read tomorrow, and see how consistent believers are, or are not, in defending God, scripture, (no God does not need our help) and how we reason with logic and sobriety.
But it is certainly most UNREASONABLE to live a life without at the very least of giving the Creator the courtesy of existing. Gee, how patient must He be.
Atheists have faith in a great many things they have no way of proving. That makes it quite ironic when they deride Christians for their faith.
Why argue with fools ? I think the Bible has some advice about that practice . You’ll never change their mind and you’re wasting your limited time and energy. If you do it because you enjoy feeling superior, what would Jesus think of that ? I’m only pointing this out because I used to do that and God convicted me of that sin . It actually dishonors God when we argue without the right motivation and careful use of words . Atheists and liberals love to point out hypocrisy in Christianity. Let’s not give them ammunition. Stay strong in the Lord’s power. 🙏
I will vote for legislators who support school vouchers because i agree with your statement which i modified as follows
What is not being taught will lead to the eventual failure again.in history ….of another failure of a Democrat Republic.
Regards and goodwill blogging
Sounds appropriate. Athens and Rome did pass away, and a few others never quite got their act together. Modern democracies are failing under the burden of Socialism.
and the second law of thermodynamics indicates that the universe is running out of steam.>
Errrummmm… the expansion of the universe is increasing.
Do you know what entropy is?
Did you know the rate of expansion is increasing?
Perhaps you should up-date your post to, you know, actually reflect *reality*…
Or do you enjoy being embarrassed on a public stage?
I never have learned when to shut my mouth. Seems to be a common problem.
Here is something relatively straightforward.
View at Medium.com
Here is your guy peddling speculations.
It’s awkward, isn’t it CT, that the universe is doing the exact opposite of what you’re jumping up and down about… like it’s an open system…
But do let me know when your done embarrassing yourself, okay…
The universe is an open system? I think you are trying to say that the universe is infinite. We don’t know whether the universe is infinite or not.
As far as I know, it is impossible to prove that the universe is infinite. On the other hand, every time we improve our technology, we can see farther out into space. Of course, what we are seeing is apparently what was there eons ago.
Energy is required to overcome entropy. Ever tried cleaning your house. That’s an endless task because it is a battle against entropy. To clean our house, we need energy. We gain energy from eating. What we eat we grow using energy provided by the sun. However, eventually it appears that our sun and all the others we know about will become dwarf stars and black holes. Will your open system correct that problem? Was the Big Bang a unique event or do Big Bangs occur here and there throughout infinity? You know the answer? It seems you think you do.