Before you read this, read Bible Contradiction? How did Saul die? | The Domain for Truth (wordpress.com). Then look at my comment (here) and SLIMJIM’s response (here).
If I had not written this post, what follows is how I would have responded to SLIMJIM.
@SLIMJIM
I have read and reviewed some books by supposedly thoughtful and well-educated Bible skeptics like Bart D. Ehrman (see Search Results for “ANSWERING JESUS’ SKEPTICS — PART 1” – Citizen Tom), and I have not been impressed.
I am a fan of Thomas Paine, but I consider his Bible skepticism a serious flaw. When I was 17, one of the books Paine wrote, “The Age of Reason,” convinced me to forsake Christianity (see THOMAS PAINE’S PROFESSION OF FAITH – Citizen Tom). Why was Paine’s book effective? I was grossly ignorant of the Bible.
What the skeptics write only impresses people who don’t know anything. That is in accord with what the Bible says about scoffers and wisdom. To counter the pretentious ravings of such ignorant and foolish people, we need to properly educate our children.
Tom,
Your post description of the skeptic reminded me of this following paragraph.
“I used to see a man walking the streets, every few steps he would clap his hands together. No one paid much attention to him. He would go about his daily walk while clapping. Once I asked him why he clapped his hands like that. He said, “It keeps the lions away.” I replied there aren’t any lions in these parts. “See, it works.” he said, and walked on down the street, occasionally clapping his hands.”
What we all need to do in my opinion when discerning skeptics opinions is in the last paragraph in my post today what to clap for to appreciate during our short time on earth.
““Thus, all four of the Biblical words conveyed a negatively violent attitude, not one of approval or pleasure. A better way of appreciation could in many cases be simply a heartfelt vocal “Amen” or “Praise the Lord.” HMM
Regards amd goodwill blogging.
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Why do you think this matter as a necessary debate while religious teaching is something beyond logic. But human have the ability to trust in thing beyond logic, right? It’s like you believe that God exists although you never meet Him in person. You will find a lot of mismatch logic in every holy book, if you keep searching. Is it necessary?
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@Tikno
Faith doesn’t work that way. It isn’t beyond logic.
We are supposed to love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. What is the distinction between our heart, mind, and soul? Well, it is easier to define the difference between the heart and the mind. Consider this excerpt.
To have faith in God, we don’t have to completely understand Him, but we must know something about God. We must learn through reason and experience that He can be trusted and that He loves us.
To trust God, Christians must trust the Bible. That is because the Bible reveals to us so much of what we know about God.
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Before widely known religion emerged, humans had adhered to primitive beliefs, such as worshiping statues, fire, sun, stones, mountains, etc. That means humans essentially believe (have faith) that there is a great power outside themselves, something that cannot be seen, heard, or touched, something beyond their logical (only faith).
And then came the teachings of the prophet, which basically steered such primitive faith (belief) to a better direction. Basically, faith is the human ability to believe beyond logic. It’s like love and affection. Sometimes love can make people do irrational things. So, if you love and believe in God, just ignore all the logical skeptic theories because faith cannot be bargained.
Enough for this because I don’t want to argue endlessly over this matter.
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@Tikno
You don’t want to debate? I guess that means I get the last word.
😆
Think about the fact that different religious beliefs can be very different. They are different worldviews. That includes different definitions of God, different philosophies about morality, and different reasons for living (what we should try to accomplish with our lives).
Paganism — what you are referring to as primitive beliefs — doesn’t have much to do with trust or faith. Paganism is really a form of Atheism. People worshipped idols to get what they wanted from them. Their gods explained cause and effect in a world they found all too capricious. Their gods were just superior beings, and their worship of them was mainly a form of deal making. Since their gods did not exist, their gods did not keep up their end of the deal. So, they would not have much faith (or trust) in them.
The Jews worshipped one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God is not capricious. He is a God of order. He expects us to think and exercise self-control. That’s why the Bible includes wisdom: Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon. Take the time to read the book of Proverbs. It is the most straightforward of those books. The others require careful study or a good commentary to understand them. Once you get the point, Ecclesiastes makes complete sense, but plenty of people have read it and misunderstood it as promoting fatalism.
The word faith has two meanings. I think you may be conflating them. We can equate a religious belief with being a faith.
Alternatively, we can act in faith by putting our trust in something (examples include money or a weapon) or someone (examples include a leader, friend, or God). There is a section on faith in this old post I wrote, https://citizentom.com/2008/02/29/why-is-it-so-difficult-to-believe-in-god-part-iii/. You may find it interesting.
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Thanks for the reblog and also thank you for sharing your own journey and interaction with skeptics
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@SLIMJIM
You are welcome.
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🙂👍
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Well done, Tom. Slim is awesome, I really enjoy reading him.
Language is hard and it often conveys an emotional meaning. You need spiritual eyes to see spiritual things. I remember a widow who was married for a long time and lost his wife. He often said, “God took her,” with some affection, some trust in the fact that she was safely tucked in the arms of the Lord. Those were words of comfort for him. Along comes a rhetorical skeptic of the spiritually blind sort and he can only hear, “God killed this man’s wife.” They are the same words, but they have a completely different meaning depending on your own perception of God.
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@insanitybytes22
Pride distorts our vision.
I don’t usually use The Passion Translation, but it seemed to do the best job of getting the gist of this verse.
The gentleman you mentioned accepts the sovereignty of God. So, he has peace. The prideful, cannot accept the fact that everything revolves around our Creator. So, they have no one in which to find rest from the worries of this world.
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Well said, Tom! Accepting the sovereignty of God does bring us peace. Good point.
I really like TPT. Always good to balance it out with other versions I suppose, but overall I’ve been well pleased with it.
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@insanitybytes22
Mel Wild seems to like the TPT too. So, that’s two respectable recommendations.
Thanks for your comments.
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Tom, thanks for the insight. This is the truth: “To counter the pretentious ravings of such ignorant and foolish people, we need to properly educate our children.”
Jim does great work.
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@Michael Wilson
Yes, he does.
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