Part of the problem with debating with a Liberal Democrat is that they don’t actually think themselves as guilty of anything. They just care more deeply than you do. In fact, you need to be fixed. How do you know you need to be fixed? Think of the words that they use to describe you.
- Racist.
- Religious fanatic.
- Right-wing Conservative Christian.
- White nationalist.
- White supremacist.
- Selfish.
- Capitalist.
- Nazi.
- Fascist.
- Extremist.
- Homophobe.
- Xenophobe.
- Prude.
- Stupid, ignorant, moron, and so forth.
Some of the insults are actually kind of ridiculously self-contradictory. Liberal Democrats like to portray their opponents as ignorant, bigoted and poor and themselves as well-educated and well-to-do. Yet they see themselves the party of the poor and Republicans as the party of the rich. Meanwhile, as much as they complain about the influence of money in politics, their campaigns never lack for plenty of cash.
Do Conservatives insult Liberal Democrats? Of course, we do. It would be ridiculous to suggest that President Donald Trump has never made fun of anyone, but we are not trying to fix Liberal Democrats. Who would know where to start? 😁 However, that does not seem to be our primary fault. We have it from an authority that our primary error is clinging to our guns and religion (see Obama: No Surprise That Hard-Pressed Pennsylvanians Turn Bitter | HuffPost).
Seriously, what is the real difference Conservatives and Liberal Democrats? Why would I complain that Liberal Democrats demand that everyone to agree with them? Consider the basic difference between Liberal Democrats and Conservatives. Conservatives insist that our rights come from God. Liberal Democrats believe that government gives us our rights.
Consider how Romans 14 begins.
Romans 14:1-4 New American Standard Bible
Principles of Conscience
14 Now accept the one who is weak [a]in faith, but not [b]to have quarrels over opinions. 2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but the one who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge the [c]servant of another? To his own [d]master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
The Apostle Paul lived in a society built upon slavery and patronage (Patronage | Definition of Patronage by Merriam-Webster (merriam-webster.com)). Everyone answered to someone, and everyone knew better to offend his master or patron by saying anything his master or patron might find insubordinate. Hence, when Paul said we must each as individuals answer first to an unseen God, the jaws of his audience must have dropped. The consequence of such a belief would be appalling suffering, and Christians did give their lives for refusing to submit to the demand that they worship the emperor. In time millions died for their refusal to render unto Caesar that which we owe God.
Christians see themselves as the Apostle Paul saw himself, a servant or slave of God. Thus, Christians regard each other as fellow slaves. A true slave is the master of no one. Even when God puts us in charge of others as parents, bosses, military officers, and rulers; our children, our employees, our military subordinates, and our People must answer to God first and foremost.
This is why we have a First Amendment.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The Bill of Rights: A Transcription | National Archives
As citizens of a constitutional republic founded in Christian values, we expect our government to respect the right of each citizen to live in accordance with the dictates of his own conscience, not another person’s conscience.
If we believe government gives us our rights, what changes? Then our rulers become our ultimate masters. We may wish to define what is right and what is wrong in accordance with the will of the majority. We may say that what is good is that which brings the greatest happiness to all, but none of us has the wisdom determine such a thing for everyone else. Therefore, when we try to determine what is good for others, even through the will of the majority, the powerful decide what is good and what is evil, and they will acquire as much power as they can to exert their will.
What is the end result? If God is our master and He loves us, then we help each other. If the government is our master, then those who rule try to “fix” us when we don’t obey their will. Obviously, when we don’t obey our masters we must be bad.
Consider why Liberal Democrats hate President Donald Trump. What did Trump do that was in their eyes so awful? Instead of trying to fix people, Trump has been trying to fix problems. In the process, Trump has undone much of work of the previous Democrat administration. If you look at TRUMP’S ACCOMPLISHMENTS VERSUS BIDEN’S ACCOMPLISHMENTS – Citizen Tom, you won’t see much about forcing us to do things we don’t want to do. Instead, the opposite is true.
What kind of things do Liberal Democrats obsess upon making the rest of us believe? Consider that Democrats want to educate other people’s children in various ideologies: Secular Humanism, Multiculturalism, Environmentalism, Critical Race Theory and Intersectionality, Transgender Ideology, Socialism, historical revisionism as exemplified by The New Times‘ “1619 Project”, and so forth. Why? “Properly indoctrinating” other people’s children is easier than “rehabilitating” or “reeducating” stubborn adults.
Adults find it more disagreeable when the government:
- Uses the public school system to interfere with the efforts of parents to pass their own beliefs onto their children.
- Uses government funding of our university system to originate, refine, and propagate the strange and foreign ideologies we have increasingly found in our public schools, the news media, and in college classes.
- Uses taxpayer dollars to fund a so-called nonprofit news media to propagate beliefs that many find repugnant.
- Undermines the integrity of our election systems with such practices as: unconstitutionally changing the rules for an election, not enforcing laws requiring poll observers, using black boxes (computers) that limit the ability of poll observers to validate an accurate vote count, refusing to properly maintain voter registration rolls, undermining voter ID requirements, and promoting ballot harvesting in conjunction with voting by mail.
- Prohibits religious speech by defining preaching what the Bible teaches hate speech.
- Uses the hatred of all things Trump to encourage Big Tech to stifle free speech and freedom of the press.
- Uses taxpayer dollars to pay for the abortion of the unborn and sells their parts.
- Legislates a preference for the medical practice of euthanizing old people instead of trying to heal them.
- Borrows huge sums of money needlessly indebting future generations.
- Bombs other countries instead of out of staying out of foreign adventures.
- Implements policies that result in the shipping the jobs of Americans to slave laborers in China.
- Threatens the integrity of our culture and our constitutional republic by refusing to enforce and undermines statues that limit immigration, especially the immigration of the poor and uneducated.
- Funds Islamic terror by giving up 10’s of billions to the Iranian terrorist regime.
- Breaks our economy with the humongous costs of the Green New Deal.
- Encourages the neutering of, that is, the transgendering of children using hormones and surgery.
- Requires employee “bias training” that teaches white employees to hate the color of their skin and colored employees to blame their woes on the white race.
- Endorses perverse sexual practices by adults by giving the so-called LBGTQ community special rights using equity as an excuse.
- And so forth.
Complete list? No. Please feel free to add your own in the comments. Exclusive to Democrats? I wish.
Citizen Tom 
Doug,
I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to you. You saw all this coming much more clearly that I did, and I didn’t want to believe it.
You saw that Trump and his followers would never play by the rules when they lost, and that they inexorably would use increasing violence as our due process and the Rule of Law exposed their lies and delusions about the legitimacy of Biden’s win. You predicted all of this.
I just wonder where we would be right now if Trump’s fascist insurrection had been successful? What if Trump’s mob had done what I believe that Trump desired, and they had kidnapped or killed the Speaker of the House and the Vice President of the United States along with other congressional Democrats and those they see as traitorous Republican turncoats? I expected protests and maybe even some clashes with law enforcement, but I could not have foreseen that because of the President’s fascist actions and craven omissions, his insurrectionist mob came closer to a violent coup than I could have even imagined in my wildest dreams.
What if the mob had forced an indefinite delay of the counting and acceptance of the electoral college votes that had been lawfully certified by each state, or instead they had violently coerced Congress by intimidation to, as Trump openly sought, not to accomplish the clear constitutional formality in the peaceful transfer of power that they simply accept the states’ certified electors? The horror show of violence if Trump had won this coup beggars my own naive imagination. But you saw this coming, didn’t you my friend?
And now, like some third world banana republic, we can’t have nice things anymore. We can’t have what we took far too much for granted after over a hundred years, a peaceful transfer of power. No instead, because of a fascist White Nationalist wannabe dictator, we have to have the entire capital surrounded by armed troops and police to protect our now fragile democracy from the insurrectionist mob of our outgoing egomaniac. Sad, but now I see that this is where we were always going under Trumpian fascism. You saw it coming all along.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire
Trump lead his cult following of insurrectionists believe in his dangerous election fraud absurdities and then he incited his White Nationalist Fascist mob at your rally to storm the Capital building.
@tsalmon
You got anything to say you have not already said? You are boring me with your absurdities, and I am not in the mood for atrocities.
Ah, Tom, I see you are invoking your standard “I know you are, but what am I?” defense by projection.
@tsalmon
I am just bored with what amounts to pointless harassment. You have badgering confused with debate.
Tom,
For the most part, I am still waiting for any response at all. For example, if you actually believe Donald Trump’s election fraud lies that you have been parroting here, and the government has been fraudulently stolen from you, why not violently overthrow the government through insurrection? Your fellow White Nationalist Fascists took the POTUS at his word when he propagated his election lies even though they have been debunked time and again by state election officials, appropriate officials of Trump’s own administration, and by the courts. None of that was good enough for Trump or you. Instead of standing for the.Rule of Law and the Constitutional processes of a peaceful transfer of government, incited by lies, Trump’s his White Nationalist fascists chose insurrection.
This mob action you attended didn’t just take Trump figuratively, they took him literally. They did not just take Trump symbolically, they took him seriously. They took Trump at his word that they could riot through the capital and he had their back, and that he was even coming with them. This fascist insurrectionist mob rioted with impunity, hunting down elected officials with the knowledge of unaccountability like a white lynch mob hunting down black folks in the Jim Crow South, even live streaming themselves and taking trophies.
Words have consequences even when they come from you, but especially coming from the President. Lies and conspiracy theories have destructive consequences, even when they come from you, but especially coming from the President of the United States.
Even if one does not honestly think Trump incited this White Nationalist Fascist insurrection every step of the way, then Trump failed in his duty thwart highly predictable and predicted domestic terrorist violence against the constitutional government of the US before it happened, He egged it into happening. And he stood by, reportedly watching with ghoulish glee, while lives were being threatened and lost. Even now, because of Trump’s irresponsible actions and omissions to stop lawlessness, law enforcement officials are having to guard against armed rebellion in all 50 states.
Because of Trump, instead of over a century of peaceful transfers of power, we have to have our Joint Chiefs warn that they will not countenance any insurrection, and we have to have tens of thousands of our troops surround the inauguration. This is what Trump and his foolish White Nationalist followers like you have brought our nation to. Shame!
You are the one who invoked my comment and tried to disparage my remarks, and mischaracterize me. I’m not scared of standing up for what I really believe. You are the one hiding and squirming. Why?
@tsalmon
You just repeated stuff you have already said. You also ignored any evidence to the contrary. In fact, you are using the complaints of your opponents as proof of their perfidy.
I have little doubt this sort of scrap is why some rioted on Jan 6. It was not wise to riot, but after years of confronting such behavior as yours from our leaders and the news media it is understandable.
It is funny. If Democrats were willing to hold the people on their side as accountable to the law as they hold the people on mine, I would be pleading for mercy for Democrats. No danger of that, unfortunately. So long as it acquires them more power, Democrats honor efforts to twist our laws.
Enforce our immigration laws and stop illegal aliens from voting? That’s racist?
Voter ID? That’s racist?
In-person voting? That’s racist.
Supporting President Trump? Of course that’s racist too.
Is there anything that is not racist? Probably not.
This squirming is unbecoming brother.
Interesting. I did know it was possible. Only five words? I guess you are trying to stop squirming.
Life is kind of complicated. Your lack of self-control has not been helping you to deal with it. Glad to see you trying so hard. Here is some encouragement.
1. The Capitol is a big deal, but so is our nation’s White House. Where were you when rioters required the president to be taken to a safe spot? Where were you when 30 people were killed in riots this summer and local and state Democrats encouraged the rioters and did nothing to stop them? You don’t have to explain or apologize to me. You are our Lord’s, not mine.
2. The facts are still coming out, but I suppose we know enough to start asking questions, but you think you already have all the answers. We don’t.
Tom,
You want to know where I was? I was condemning White Nationalism and cheering on America’s pluralistic reckoning with it’s nostalgic embracing of Trump’s populist White Nationalism, a WASP Nationalism exemplified by a sick President who instigated violence in order to hold up a sacred scripture as a prop, an idol, to con his childish, weak minded cult followers. And you didn’t condemn that did you? You lapped it up.
What happened last week was THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, the chief law enforcement officer of the United States activating his privileged White Nationalist mob, stoking their fear and hatred based racist grievances, and launching them like a missile right at our Constitution while he gleefully cheered them on from the safety of the people’s house.
And you were there standing firm with the Confederate flags, the NAZI paraphernalia. You helped. But now you are just weaseling around trying to find excuses and drawing on asinine false equivalencies.
Trump’s and your kind of xenophobic hate and fear based mob populism is always bound to escalate to increasing violence. A lie needs brut force to maintain its power until it’s like a dark delirium’s fever that will break only when it has spent its depravity or the lie continues until it dominates everyone through brute totalitarian force.
It is the cowardice and excuses of mob members who allow themselves to be swept up in the violence of the lynching verses the actual bravery, the actual profiles in courage, of the ten Republicans like Rep. Liz Cheney who decided to have the bravery not to let Trump’s insurrectionist mob win, to not let the institutions of constitutional democracy go down in flames just to save the ego of the megalomaniac liar who leads your party.
At least have the courage to firmly choose a side now that you see the fascism that your promulgation of White Nationalist hatred and fear has wrought. Quit weaseling just as your dear leader, seeing that he is trapped by his own lies, has started his weaseling. Have the courage to own the destruction of our Constitutional government that you fomented with Trump’s lies, or else actually wake up from this nightmare of populist national bigotry, and repent it.
@tsalmon
How vitriolic are you going to get?
Confederate flags and Nazi flags? I don’t believe I saw one. Since I was with a bunch of people who originated from South Vietnam, I saw lots of South Vietnamese flags. Of course, I did not see everything. Like as not the folks who headed off to the Capitol before Trump finished his speech had a few. Don’t you wonder how Trump’s worshippers could leave off their adoration before he stopped speaking? Have the The New York Times and The Washington Post will explained that for you?
Anyway, Trump’s crime is that he supposedly incited a mob. If Democrats are not being incited to hate all things Trump, what else should I call it? When are you going to stop breathing fire and start trying to kill those hated Trump supporters?
Have I chosen a side? Yeah. I am a Christian. I am not on your side. I am not on Trump’s side. I try to do what I think God would have us do, and even then I sometimes have to guess.
You talk a lot about love. Well, not so much lately. We have to love in truth, or what we do in love is not going to be especially good.
What is truth? Well, Pontius Pilate had a point when he asked that question. Because we are finite and don’t know everything, we don’t have the capacity to come up with an unambiguous answers. Sometimes we know the truth, and sometimes we don’t. So, what should we do? For wisdom, to help me discern what is good and what is evil I have turned to the Bible.
Is Trump good? No man is good. I voted for Trump because what Trump wanted to do was far less evil than what Democrats have done and proposed to do. So, breath all the fire you want. You have yet with all your words addressed what the party you support wants. Instead, you have just said the meanest and nastiest things you could about Trump, and little of what you have said is true.
Tom,
If I did not love, I would not even bother to make you see the truth of what you and your cult leader have wrought with your lies. If you and other White Evangelicals did not use hate and fear to spread your pharisaic faux scriptural message of tribalistic White Nationalism, then we would not even be here. You and your idolatrous religion of tribalism sacralized Trump’s cult of White Nationalist fascism for his less sophisticated followers, didn’t you? I know you will eventually see this, but is the plain truth that you just don’t get now, because you prefer to wallow in grievance and lies.
At least Dr. Mohler finally saw the nihilistic brink of cultism that White Evangelical Christians had been brought to by Trump and he stepped back. Out of love for you and others here, I am hoping to convince you to look in the mirror as Dr. Mohler finally did, and do the same.
Obviously this is not working now, but Jesus never stops trying out of love to help His lost sheep, so why should I, especially when one of them is my brother, and I love him. Even Trump is worthy of redemption if only he can learn from introspection and repent the violence his sinful hatreds have wrought. He may not be psychologically capable of this, but through love, God offers salvation even though we scoff at it and even though we don’t deserve it.
@tsalmon
I don’t know Mohler’s heart, but I am not convinced that his motives are particularly noble.
Our motives are usually mixed, and that is something we have trouble avoiding. Because the president of a Christian college has to be its biggest fundraiser, I suspect Mohler is more alarmed than most over the rabid use the news media is making of the storming of our nation’s Capitol. You are the only one who thinks Trump is guilty because of his association with the riot.
Trump is a man, not a demon. Democrats and their news media allies are also men and women, not demons. Because and no position to judge Trump. They have relentlessly pursued Trump with false and even impeached him twice using laughable accusations.
I know you love me, and I return this love. Calling me a fascist, however, is a strange way to show it.
There is a book I read years ago, “The Guns of August.” I expect you have read it too.
WWI started with shooting of one man. One assassin in a single act of violence created a worldwide blood bath. When people are angry, it doesn’t take much to set them off in rage.
Is Trump an evil man. I don’t think so, but even if you do I suggest you give up pursuing vengeance. Vengeance belongs to the Lord.
Vengeance? No justice is what we should seek. And true justice begins with love. However, I also firmly believe that love’s reconciliation begins with truth, and such truth about who we are and what we have wrought leads us to repentance.
I was listening to a filmmaker today talk about a film he made on the mass murder that took place in Norway when a genocidal killer stalked and murdered innocent people a few years ago on Norwegian island. You may remember it. The film maker said that the one thing that these right wing extremists all have in common and why they are our greatest internal threat these days is their shared sense that a grand reckoning is coming, an apocalyptic battle with both racial and religious connotations. They are eaten up with a sense of hatred based on grievance so that they seek this battle and must maintain themselves in a constant state of self induced hyperbolic anxiety to find ways to bring on this catechism between what they see as forces of dark and light, good and evil.
It is no accident that Trump appeals to fascist white Nationalists and Qanon conspiracists and rabid right white wing extremists of all shapes and sizes. He inspires them for many of the same reasons that, at a subconscious level, he inspires you. Trump plays to hate and fear and the comfortable delusion of binary thinking.
The antidote to Trump’s hate and fear based charisma is love and hope, and yes, true compassion that leads to compromise. True integrity, an integrity based on the virtues that all derive from love, does not mean that you have to be ideologically uncompromising all the time Tom. Like me, you have been married way too long to not finally realize that compromise perhaps love’s greatest virtue.
@tsalmon
If our love is based upon lies, then when we act in love we harm those we love. If our pursuit of justice is motivated by love but guided by lies, then our love leads to injustice.
You go on and on with the fear porn you have been fed. Listen to you repeat the lies about “Trump appealing to fascist white Nationalists and Qanon conspiracists and rabid right white wing extremists of all shapes and sizes.” I have given you an example of Biden using the Charlottesville, VA lie, that Trump praised white nationalists, and you paid no attention.
The labels don’t matter much. There is no practical difference between a Nazi and Communist. Just as we know trees by the fruit that they bear we know people and political parties. The fruits of a tyrant are piles of dead bodies and terrified people. The tyrant does not debate. He silences the truth. He buries his opponents in shallow graves, and he drowns his opponents under waves propaganda and fear. He allows only those too afraid to oppose him to survive, and he rewards those who would help him demonize and destroy his enemies.
Since Donald Trump has a decent record of accomplishments — his fruit — the propagandists you listen to lie about him and bury his accomplishments. And in your pride, you don’t want to admit you have believed the lies. Heaven help you if you would knowingly assist tyranny.
Once I believed the lies, and I still have trouble sorting through them. It requires more wisdom than I have to always know the truth. That is why I have to force myself to avoid leaping to conclusions and wait. When we act in ignorance, we usually find it would have been better to do nothing.
Why do the lies against us work? We are not good. None of us is good. So, when someone lies against us the lies are believable. Without Jesus as our advocate, we would all be destroyed. Without the grace and mercy of God, we justly belong in Hell.
Tom,
There is only one Big Lie here, and that is Trump’s lies of a grand national conspiracy of diabolically brilliant Democrats and Republicans from States and Counties around the country (a conspiracy so grand and so effective that, as John Bolton said, no one can find evidence of it) stole the election from Trump, who as Trump repeatedly has said he “won by a landslide”. It’s a “Big Lie”, a fascist lie, but it is the culmination of hundreds, if not thousands, of Trumpian lies going back to Trump’s racist promotion of Obama birtherism, and even before in virtually all of Trump’s business dealings. You have chosen to believe and promulgate the endless lying a conman reality TV star built his business and now his political career upon because you love his fascist White Nationalist lying. Trump feeds you outrageous lies you the lies about those you hate. He lets you snuggle into your grievances. So you embrace the lie and the liar. If voting for a fascist leader and propagandizing his fascist lies, including his Big Lie, doesn’t make you a fascist, then tell me what does?
Right before experiencing the horror show that the fascist monster he helped create and appease wrought, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said Joe Biden won a free and fair election. (At great personal and political risk, all the other Republican Senate Leadership agreed). After the Trump Insurrection, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy admitted that Trump bares some responsibility for his Insurrection and he too said Joe Biden fairly won the election. The number three Republican in the House, Liz Cheney, called Trump a threat to the Republic and voted for Impeachment.
On January 20, Joe Biden will be the legitimately elected POTUS. With Donald J. Trump increasingly seen, even by the Republican Party and its contributors, as an embarrassing has-been stain on American history, virtually all the Republican Party will have abandoned Trump and his lies. Trump will be banished only to the darkest, hell holes of media conspiracy theories and White Supremacist propaganda. Trump, who’s only real commodity was his con, will bankrupt (again) just as he has always been morally bankrupt. He will slowly fade away into a treasonous disgrace far worse than Richard Nixon’s critics could even have imagined.
However, although it will go more underground, Trump’s fascist, insurrectionist “Big Lie” of election fraud, bucked up by all his other fascist lies is still dangerous. Why? Because fascist White Nationalism is still the greatest internal threat facing our nation, and with its many faces from Islamist Fascism to Putinist Fascism to the racist, xenophobic fascism that faces virtually all of Western Europe now, the entire world. As long as you keep promoting Trump’s fascist big lie about mostly black and brown people stealing the election and all the other White Nationalist fascist lies, you will remain on the side of fascism and against the ordered liberty that our constitutional democratic republic represents. You are and will continue to be a fascist.
Because I love you, I pray that you see the error of your ways soon. Regret your promotion of lies and fascist White Nationalism. Most folks here are not as educated as you. The privileges of education, leisure time and brains that God has granted you, also comes responsibly to lead others away from the vice filled sin and lies that Trump represents and has always represented. I pray that you stop promoting fascist hate and fear and turn to love and truth.
You think loving someone in Christ means that I have to support their tribalistic, xenophobic hatreds. I don’t. I won’t. It means loving you and speaking with love to you even though you have enthralled yourself to a fascist cult of personality. I think despite your studies and your God given brains, you have missed the premier, the universal message of Jesus that even the illiterate and sinful beggars, prostitutes and slaves understood. And instead, you have become the worst sort of Pharisaic hypocrite that were the only ones Jesus openly criticized. As such, as Jesus said, it will be impossible for you (and me, for similar reasons of privilege) to get to Christ’s eternality, especially if you are leading others into hateful lies. But with God’s love, all things are possible.
Let your hate go brother. Research this out and admit the lies. You are lost in that wilderness. But God is merciful. Jesus will always keep searching for his lost sheep. He is searching for you now.
@tsalmon
When we use words, to use them effectively, we have to know what they mean. Making accusations by stringing together a bunch of words just creates a stupid accusation.
Does there have to be a great and grand national conspiracy to steal an election? No. An uncoordinated would be more effective. Look at yourself. You are enraged by Trump.
On the other hand, without any evidence, you have got this big, huge White Nationalist fascist whatever it is movement.
I am glad I don’t have cable TV. I did not even know I was blaming black and brown people. I am blaming people like you for not supporting proper laws for ensuring election integrity. You so ridden with guilt for things long past that you are allowing filthy rich white business titans to run our country to suit themselves.
You love that word “tribalism”. You constantly accuse me of “tribalism”, but I defend principles, not a tribe. I defend my family, friends, neighbors, and countrymen because I value the principles upon which we have based our way of life. The form of tribalism you accuse me of is called fascism, which is actually type of tyranny that uses race to divide us. Meanwhile, you advocate Socialism which is an ideology that pits the poor against rich. Hypocrisy? Sure looks like it.
If you are going to make accusations, you have an obligation to base your charges upon evidence. Constant repetition is not evidence of anything except the fact you have a serious problem with the truth.
Think. Is someone’s gender choice more real that the biological sex they were born with? Of course not, but the Democratic Party thinks it is scientific to believe in gender instead of one’s biological sex. Why? To make something true, all we have to do is get some experts (black-robed judges) to say it is true. Similarly, how do you know Trump is guilty? The news media says that that is the “consensus” of political “experts”.
You have been swallowing crap like that all your life.
Frankly, Liberal Democrats have incited more political violence that anything Trump has done. When people insist upon forcing their version of “truth” upon others, that takes a lot of anger, and it incites a lot anger when people resist the “truth” of pride filled people.
https://www.cnsnews.com/index.php/article/washington/melanie-arter/gaetz-left-lit-actual-flames-actual-fires-and-we-had-put-them-out
https://www.foxnews.com/us/police-chief-officers-injured-riots
https://nypost.com/2020/09/16/riots-following-george-floyds-death-could-cost-up-to-2b/
https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/16/study-up-to-95-percent-of-2020-u-s-riots-are-linked-to-black-lives-matter/
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/09/16/its-official-the-george-floyd-riots-were-the-most-destructive-in-u-s-history-n936177
Tom,
So your grand argument is that you are wise because you don’t listen to anyone who is smarter than you, and I am dumb because I read a lot of books and newspapers and watch the news?
@tsalmon
Please observe what all the examples I gave have in common. We assume something is true when either the assumption is absurd or we have no way of proving what we say is true. People often state as a fact that the Big Bang occurred nearly 14 billion years ago just because some expert has stated the theory and others think the theory makes sense, but ten or twenty years from now… The hilarious thing about such theories is that the people who know the least often trust the theories the most. Remember. The true measure of our knowledge of a subject is quality of the questions for which we are searching for answers. When we know little, we don’t realize how little we know.
Tom,
So because an airplane crashes on rare occasions, therefore modern air travel cannot be trusted? You believe the most nonsensical conspiracy theories and Trump lies because they confirm your preconceptions and prejudices, not because they’re true (thus your strange obsession with other people’s sex). You don’t trust authorities because you have oppositional defiance, not because authorities are less wrong on more occasions than idiots. You are describing psychological disorders, not wisdom.
@tsalmon
Fraudulent elections are more rare than airline crashes? If that is true, I am not flying anymore.
I don’t trust the authorities (that includes Donald Trump) because the authorities are men and women, and no man or woman can be completely trusted.
All you are doing is attacking me, and you clearly are not doing it for my benefit. You are trying to affirm what you want to believe, and you are angry I have sown doubt. Now you have to examine what you believe, and you fear the truth.
Do we believe lies? Sometimes. When we believe lies, does that ruin our lives? Not necessarily. If we repent and turn to Jesus, He will save us. Read Romans 8:28. Only He can work all things for the good of those who love Him.
Am I doing any harm? So long as I live and breath in this life, I suppose I will do some harm, but I have not encouraged violence. I have encouraged people to become informed and participate in politics, to repair our political system by using the tools it still provides. Meanwhile, you have …. Well, you know what you have done.
Am I voting for people who will force their beliefs on you or your family, friends, neighbors? What will the people you have supported do? They have told us they intend to transform us. Frankly, I think what they will do is make slaves of us.
Constitutional republics are rare. If history as shown anything to be inevitable, it is the rot of tyranny. There is most certainly nothing rare about prideful men seeking power. Is that not your hypocritical charge against Trump?
Tom,
No one ever said that there was NO election fraud, just that it is rare, and it therefore did not effect the election outcome. For example, have you listened to the hour long phone call where Trump tries to pressure the Secretary of State of Georgia to find him enough votes so to overturn their election? I have.
On the phone call Trump erroneously claims that thousands of dead people voted. The Secretary of State says that they had investigated and only found two. Two! Like you, Trump refused to believe that and kept repeating his Big Lie over and over, and the Republican Secretary of State just kept insisting to Trump that someone is giving him inaccurate information. Like Trump, you don’t believe what you don’t want to believe, and you conveniently believe the lies fullfill your suppressed fascist fantasies.
Why fascist? Because, not so coincidently, the only votes you want to disqualify are black and brown people’s votes. It’s fascist for many reasons but in this case it is because what you want is not a democratic republic, but White Nationalist minority rule. That is fascism.
Republican Oklahoma Senator James Langford is about as conservative as it gets, but he also most often impresses me as a decent guy. So it supprised me to see him involved in the racially motivated stupidity that brought on the Jan 6 insurrection. Lankford recently apologized saying this:
“My action of asking for more election information caused a firestorm of suspicion among many of my friends, particularly in Black communities around the state,” he wrote in a letter. “What I did not realize was all of the national conversation about states like Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Michigan, was seen as casting doubt on the validity of votes coming out of predominantly Black communities like Atlanta, Philadelphia, and Detroit.”
Lankford called the lapse in judgement a “blind spot.”
“Many Black friends in Oklahoma saw this as a direct attack on their right to vote, for their vote to matter, and even a belief that their votes made an election in our country illegitimate,” he wrote. “I can assure you, my intent to give a voice to Oklahomans who had questions was never also an intent to diminish the voice of any Black American.”
He continued: “I should have recognized how what I said and what I did could be interpreted by many of you. I deeply regret my blindness to that perception, and for that I am sorry.”
From here:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-01-15/republican-senator-apologizes-to-black-constituents-for-challenging-electoral-vote%3fcontext=amp
It sounds like a cliche but my best male friend here in Mississippi happens to be a black businessman. He recently told me that, although he has learned not to discuss this with his sisters and his mother, he votes Republican. He said he does this because all the oppressive regulation is killing him.
One of the things that both parties assume is that all black and brown people will vote the same. It’s called identity politics. However, what I’ve noticed is that racial block voting is reactive rather than planned out. It is reactive to perceived rascism. Racial block voting in GA is a response to the very real perception that black votes in cities were being actively suppressed. Republican fascist Trumpism inspired voters to turn out in GA around the country to vote consciously and unconsciously along racially inspired grounds – white voters based on a White Nationalist sense of grievance over a sensed loss of privilege along with the inevitable decline of WASP male cultural and political dominance, and black and brown voters voting on racial grounds because of active voter suppression of their votes based on Republican fascist racism, whether they want to call it that or not.
The Party of Lincoln is at a crises flash point at which Trump did not cause, but for which he is the charismatic “cult of personality” accelerant. Put simply, Republicans can chose a democratic republic based upon the application of traditional conservative values to an increasingly pluralistic society, or they can choose the fascism of radical White Nationalist minority rule. They can choose a Civil War based upon white minority insurrection, or they can choose traditional American institutions and values.
Obviously, it’s more complicated for each individual than this binary choice. People’s racial motivations are mostly unconscious and exist on a spectrum. Racial prejudices most often drive us subliminally. They present in nostalgic grievance from a deep seated feeling of our cultural loss of privilege. It is an emotional sense of loss that is rationalized rather than rational, but it the fact that it is subliminal does not make it less real to them. There are a great many traditional black and brown Republicans, but it is absolutely no accident that virtually all the insurrectionists who violently stormed the capital were crazed white people all all the spectrum of open and subliminal racial motivation. And you perpetrated the Big Lie that gave them their mistaken moral justification. You should, and I think do, know better, but I think that this is what you want even if you don’t have the courage to get out there and storm the capital yourself in what is essentially at its heart the fascist revolt that in your small way you help inspire . . . and it’s not over yet Tom.
@tsalmon
https://citizentom.com/2021/01/16/of-course-you-know-this-means-war/
Reblogged this on boudica.us.
Thank you!
This is the memorandum signed by all of out military’s chiefs:
MEMORANDUM FOR THE JOINT FORCE
SUBJECT: MESSAGE TO THE JOINT FORCE
The American people have trusted the Armed Forces of the United States to protect them and our Constitution for almost 250 years. As we have done throughout our history, the U.S. military will obey lawful orders from civilian leadership, support civil authorities to protect lives and property, ensure public safety in accordance with the law, and remain fully committed to protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
The violent riot in Washington, D.C. on January 6, 2021 was a direct assault on the U.S. Congress, the Capitol building, and our Constitutional process. We mourn the deaths of the two Capitol policemen and others connected to these unprecedented events.
We witnessed actions inside the Capitol building that were inconsistent with the rule of law. The rights of freedom of speech and assembly do not give anyone the right to resort to violence, sedition and insurrection.
As Service Members, we must embody the values and ideals of the Nation. We support and defend the Constitution. Any act to disrupt the Constitutional process is not only against our traditions, values, and oath; it is against the law.
On January 20, 2021, in accordance with the Constitution, confirmed by the states and the courts, and certified by Congress, President-elect Biden will be inaugurated and will become our 46th Commander in Chief.
To our men and women deployed and at home, safeguarding our country-stay ready, keep your eyes on the horizon, and remain focused on the mission. We honor your continued service in defense of every American.
@tsalmon
So? You are using a logical fallacy, guilt by association. Do you want to know how that stupidity works?
— tsalmon is an American.
— Americans invaded the Capitol Building and killed people.
— tsalmon is guilty of murder.
Guilt by promotion.
@tsalmon
Once we promoted him to president, it is for certain that the Democrats decided he was guilty of something.
Excellent list Tom. The primary thing, which you suggest, is the timeless question. Can Man rule himself, given a decent education and accurate information? I say yes and it seems there are those I oppose that wish to have me conform.
@jeffw5382
Can Man rule himself? Depends upon what we mean by that, I suppose.
Since I have an interest in politics, I find 1 Samuel 8 especially interesting, this part in particular.
What does it mean to have God as King over us? When he wrote “Commonsense” Thomas Paine quoted from 1 Samuel 8 (see https://citizentom.com/2007/07/27/one-of-the-sins-of-the-jews/). Paine did not say what it meant to be ruled by God. Instead, he used 1 Samuel 8 to condemn monarchial rule.
I suspect many of the founders wrested with the idea? What does it mean to have God rule over us? The best they could come up with was the First Amendment.
I do indeed believe people who put their faith in God and not the government to guide their decisions, are better equipped to look after themselves and help others.
“Part of the problem with debating with a Liberal Democrat is that they don’t actually think themselves as guilty of anything.”
Funny, I have the same problem debating a white nationalist religious fascist. They don’t seem to care if they destroy the country use the cross or the flag as a weapon to club their fellow Americans or Christians as long as they can maintain their version of WASP males hegemony.
You know, a courageous Christian would repent his part in an insurrection, now would they?
@tsalmon
True that, but what is the difference between a Liberal Democrat and a white nationalist?
A Democrat is a member of one of our two historic political parties. The modern version of someone who is “liberal” has many social and political connotations which make it hard to define individually (just as conservative is hard to define) because most good conservatives and liberals exist on as a compromise on spectrum between political and social extremes
A White Nationalist, like yourself, in contrast is an determinist ideologue who believes in the religious and cultural exclusivity and of political hegemony of a WASP male ideology. This un-American concept is essentially Fascist when “it is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy”. The insurrection last Wednesday and its promotion was fascist White Nationalism.
The ill defined concepts of Conservative Republican and Liberal Democrat are historical institutions of our constitutional system of compromise through checks and balances. Fascist ideology is uncompromising in that it does not respect such compromise or any democratic institutional norms in its destructive March toward cultural domination (in this case WASP Male cultural dominance). Trump and those who support him proved themselves as fascists last Wednesday, and continue to do so today.
@tsalmon
Given the nature of your hostile accusations, I don’t see much point in taking you seriously. You are not engaging in debate. You are just attacking people personally. We behave that way when we know are wrong, but our pride is too offended to admit.
You didn’t argue against anything in my post because it is true. So, you attack and attack and attack.
Whereas, I have no trouble defending Trump. Did Trump err when he sent the people attending a rally to the Capitol? An argument can be made for that, but turning something no one expected into a crime is just hateful and stupid.
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2021/01/11/dershowitz-destroys-democrats-impeachment-hopes-1015126/
You vote for the candidates of a party that has an awful history of racism and slavery, and is full of anti-Semites. Democrats don’t stand for anything worthwhile, and Biden arguably should be on trial. So, they distract stupid people just like you are doing. They play the race card. Of course, you are only calling anyone who disagrees with you a white nationalist in the name of national unity, right?
If the news media whose crap you repeat didn’t have the backing of the major corporate interests that the Democrats are supposed to hate, you would be a joke, but propaganda is what it is. Still, you are smart enough to know you are wrong. Wise enough? Don’t know, but I bet your conscience is aching.
@tsalmon
Got a question for you race genius. If Democrats care about blacks and protecting us from violence soooooooo much, why did they allow rioters celebrating the death of George Floyd to do so much harm? Celebrating? Yes. When people use the death of someone to harm people who had nothing to do with it, they are just using that death as an excuse.
Faux equivalencies have always been a favorite fascist propaganda ploy. In your world of false choices, Timothy McVeigh’s blowing up a federal building is exactly equivalent to the counterproductive and unauthorized riots that sometimes ensued when MLK staged peaceful protests.
If you trouble to go to the heart of these diametrically opposed movements, then you would realize that BLM’s peaceful resistance (like MLK’s movement before it) is about equal protection under the law, whereas Trumpist insurrectionism (like the violence of Bull Conner and Mcveigh) is about promoting fascist White Nationalism. One is violent, anti-democratic, racist and fascist and the other is about our highest American and Christian ideals of peaceful change toward a more equal, prosperous and ordered liberty.
@tsalmon
I did not make anything close to a comparison between Timothy McVeigh’s blowing up a federal building the counterproductive and unauthorized riots that sometimes ensued when MLK staged peaceful protests. You did. That is a straw man.
BLW is a communist organization. Do some research. I did, and I did my research on their own website. Have they cleaned it up since I initially visited? Somewhat.
What you are doing is racist. Blacks are not automatically good, and whites are not automatically bad.
You make constant accusations, and you never prove anything. For a lawyer, that should be a sin.
“BLW is a communist organization. Do some research. I did, and I did my research on their own website. Have they cleaned it up since I initially visited? Somewhat.”
I have researched “BLM”, and your claim is about as nonsensical as the claims during his time that MLK was a radical and a communist or worse. I’m sure you did a selective search for what you wanted to find without any bothering to learn the broader context or understanding of why George Floyd’s murder under the knee of a white policeman engendered a near universal outpouring of empathy and understanding from people of all races and both political parties, and then perhaps the largest spontaneous protests in American History.
John Lewis, a hero of MLK’s Civil Rights movement who nearly had his brains bashed in by Bull Conner’s police, supported BLM until his death, and Lewis believed BLM’s cause wad just a continuation of the cause for the actual realization of 14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause that Lewis had championed his whole life. But in some McCarthian fever dream, you probably believe the devout John Lewis was an atheist Communist too.
Whether you are doing it consciously or not, are just promoting the same sort of white backlash slander and misinformation about BLM that otherwise well meaning white folks used to assuage their guilt and fears at the loss of their cultural caste superiority during MLK’s time. It was White Nationalist Fascism then and it still is now. And these lies propping up your Big Lie can be used to justify almost any violence, even the overthrow of our democratic republic, right?
@tsalmon
I checked their website before a bunch of corporations started giving them money.
https://citizentom.com/2016/08/01/demagoguery-and-black-lives-matter/
Tom,
I guess I missed it. It’s all pretty tolerant, but where do these BLM founders swear fealty to Lenin and Marx, much less Stalin the way that you have sworn allegiance to Trump’s fascist cult of personality?
Trump insisted that we all each get $2,000 dollars from the government. Sounds pretty neomarxist to me. I guess that it’s only when black and brown people want something from government that fascists think it’s Marxist, right?
The point of that post is to show that BLM does not care about black men. The notion that they do is absurd.
Why don’t your research the founders? If you are going to repeat accusations, do your research first.
I have researched them and I’ve watch interviews with them. They seem erudite and well spoken, enthusiastic and even humorous. They’ve written books you know? Why don’t you read one before you just slander them and their movement just to dismiss them out of hand, you cancel culture advocate you?
@tsalmon
I slander and libel someone by copying and presenting (in context) what I found on their own website? That’s rich!
There are well over seven billion people in the world. I choose to spend my time with those with whom it seems most profitable to do so. I want nothing to do with BLW. When people start rioting and promote violence, I think they need to be put in jail. That includes people who you claim are on my side, and I reject. That also includes people on your side who do riot and your leaders either refuse to condemn or even support.
Tom,
You better watch out, when you start telling the truth about the Dems, the old idiom applies
“They don’t get mad, they get even.”.
:
For example, look how they made an opportunity to oust President Trump.
They used Rahm Emmanuel’s infamous quote.
“You never let a serious crisis (Pandemic) go to waste. And what I mean by that it’s an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.”
If you keep telling the truth, they will call up a market on someone to manage to censor you from WordPress same as they censored Trump from Twitter, Facebook, Parlor, etc.
Hope you sleep well tonight.
Sad.
Regards and goodwill blogging.
The Rahm Emanuel quote in context, emphasis added:
@marmoewp
That is problem with a crisis. People can be whipped into a frenzy. The whole point of setting up a constitutional republic with checks and balances is to prevent mob action.
Look at the way the storming of the Capitol is being used. In hindsight, Trump should have sent the crowd home after speaking to them, but he is not use to trouble of that sort, and he has had numerous rallies.
What complicated matters is that the Capitol Police were not prepared, even though there was no reason why should not have been, for some crazies to be in a crowd that big. However, Speaker Nancy Pelosi is in charge of the Capitol Police, and Democrats never get it right. They just blame someone else. Therefore, what should have been just a dumb mistake got blown up into a catastrophe, and Democrats are so stupidly vindictive and power seeking they continue to make it worse.
What is the best outcome? The nasty vindictiveness of the Democrats will be seen for what it is, and that will scare people. No one in his right mind gives power to merciless, graceless, and arrogant rulers.
marmoewp
Thanks for your comment which I agree with in essence.
However, keep in mind that as in every matter since the beginning of time, we have to choose between a good or evil result or outcome of the crisis.
For example,
In interested, check out my post today titled: Lola’s Congressional Chamber of Intriguers on another crisis in the making.
Do it quick before it is censored.
Lola’s Congressional Chamber of Intriguers? King Solomon Blog – Rudy u Martinka (rudymartinka.com)
Regards and goodwill blogging.
Democratic socialists see themselves as doing things for the “good of the people.” It’s always sold (whatever the “it” is) as a “noble cause.” That’s the difference. They think they are trying to save us from ourselves as close as I can tell, when we’d really all rather be left to live our lives freely, being responsible for ourselves. But that’s just my opinion, for which I am still entitled, at least for now. Have you read “We Will Not Be Silenced,” by Erwin Lutzer? I think you’d really like it.
@Lisa V
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and a lot of arrogance.
Not familiar with the book. Suppose I ought to be, but I have focused on old books here of late.
Thanks for the suggestion.