GOD IS GOD, “WE” ARE NOT

Anti-capitalist propaganda (from here (en.wikipedia.org))

From time to time some thought brings me back to an old post, THE ADVANTAGE OF A REPUBLIC OVER A DEMOCRACY. That post is about something James Madison wrote, The Federalist, Paper # 10. Madison wanted people to understand the difference between a republic and a democracy. The purpose of a republic is to protect the individual from the tyranny of the majority.

Why am I bringing up that old post this time? Today we see Crony Capitalism running rampant.

  • Most of the news media is owned by about five big corporations. These media organizations are almost completely partisan. Their news stories often omit much of the news. Worse, they sometimes tell outright lies. For example, we are having race riots over the killing of blacks by white policemen. Yet, when we investigate these stories carefully, there is almost nothing racial about the killings. The news media have fabricated the race angle. Did the news media intend to foment riots? No? Then what would they have done differently?
  • Big Tech has become partisan. Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter and other Big Tech companies have an established record of censoring Conservatives, including our president.
  • Instead of thoughtfully deliberating over legislation, Congress passes huge, complex spending bills at the last minute. These bills include what are effectively earmarks for special interests.
  • Government employees exercise huge power over the government through their unions. Unions are an artifact of Capitalism, a natural counterbalance to those with a great amount of capital. Unions leaders, through their government connections have prevented their members from losing pay when the government is shut down.
  • And so forth.

Crony Capitalism is: “an economic system in which family members and friends of government officials and business leaders are given unfair advantages in the form of jobs, loans, etc.” (from here (dictionary.cambridge.org)). Crony Capitalism, not the goodness of “we”, leads to Socialism. Socialism gives those in power even more power than Crony Capitalism. So, instead of fighting the evils of Crony Capitalism those in power use Crony Capitalism as an excuse to create a Socialist or Communist regime.

The ideologies of Socialism and Communism provide excuses that the powerful use to rob some people so that they can give money to other people. That’s why Socialism and Communism are just different names for forms of tyranny. When “we” give our government the power to redistribute wealth, “we” give it the power to steal. Stealing corrupts both the people with the power and the people who become dependent upon the redistributions.

Socialists and Communists demand power in the interests of “we”. “We” are not all that good. “We” can be very self-centered and greedy. Even within the community of those who call themselves Christian, there can be violent disagreement. Go beyond the Christian community and the disagreement grows, inevitably to the point of violence.

Socialists and Communists call themselves the majority and justify tyranny in the name of the majority. Hence, they proclaim war on tribalism and any excuse that any use to refuse to join their majority. So, it is a bad sign that there is so much criticism of tribalism these days, but tribalism is not necessarily a bad thing. Tribalism provides reasons for people caring about each other.

Don’t we have the right to associate with and work with the people with whom we have common cause? Don’t families, clans, and communities need to form close relationships? Why should we not expect people to bond with those with whom they have common cause? Doesn’t the First Amendment protect our right to freely assembly and petition the government? Isn’t the right of free association one of the reasons why the Framers of the U.S. Constitution created a republic?

Therefore, when we insist upon “we”, “we” must consider the ramifications. “We” is a much abused expression. Sometimes people use the expression “we” to insist that “they” must do what “we” tell them to do or they are being selfish. Socialists and Communists, in particular, abuse the expression “we” that way.

Government exists to protect our rights. Sometimes “we” use rules like eminent domain to prevent people from using their property abuse the rights of others. For example, when someone owns a mountain pass, the owner can abuse his property rights by stifling trade. He can require an excessive toll to use his pass through the mountains.

Is Socialism or Communism a necessity? Isn’t monopoly inevitable in a capitalist economy? No. In a society where everyone has equal rights before the law, it is difficult to become extremely wealthy. A large amount of wealth requires increasingly skilled management to hang onto it. Few have either the skills or the necessary discipline to manage very much wealth. That is why the wealthy often secure special advantages from their cronies in government. That’s what drives Crony Capitalism.

So, while some regulation is necessary to prevent natural monopolies (another subject), our primary concern should preventing abuses of government power.

In order to protect our own rights, we have to protect each other’s rights. However, if we go beyond that point, we lose our God-given rights. “We” must never forget that God is God. “We” are not.

 

 

102 thoughts on “GOD IS GOD, “WE” ARE NOT

  1. Noah Webster’s 1828 Dictionary defined Republic as: ” A commonwealth; a state in which the exercise of the sovereign power is lodged in representatives elected by the people. In modern usage, it differs from a democracy or democratic state, in which the people exercise the powers of sovereignty in person. Yet the democracies of Greece are often called republics.” What I believe many of our elected representatives have forgotten is that they represent the people and not BIG business or special interests. That is what Madison is referring to as Crony Capitalism.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Liz,

    “Exactly” indeed! That’s why I enjoy your comments so much Liz. At least you try to stick to facts (even if the voracity of those facts is sometimes questionable). When you do have opinions, you at least base them on things that you have some experience or expertise about.

    If I remember correctly, you are a licensed nurse. More important as far as I am concerned, you have served your country with your husband in war and peace. When you say something based upon that, I may not always completely agree, but I stand up and salute where it comes from.

    As for most of what you wrote above, I think Trump mostly inherited them and then screwed them up, but we can go item by item if you want.

    For example, last I heard, we actually have about 10,000 more troops in the entire Middle East/West Asia theatre than when Trump took office. I’m not denying the necessity of that, nor do I condemn Trump’s proclaimed policy of continuing Obama’s policy of getting us out of stupid wars. I think, however, what he did to the Kurds in Syria was knee jerk, stupid and designed only to make Putin, not our allies, happy, and it’s proved to be a fiasco that he’s had to walk back. But we’ve talked about that.

    Tell me which fantasy of Trump glorification you want to go over next. However, even if everything you said were true, it all comes down to “What have you done (or screwed up) on your watch lately Mr. Man-where-the-buck-is-supposed-to-stop?

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    1. For example, last I heard, we actually have about 10,000 more troops in the entire Middle East/West Asia theatre than when Trump took office.

      We have guests at the house and are on the way to Georgetown to ride the train…so I don’t have time right now to look up actual troop numbers. To my knowledge this is not correct.
      from Reuters article (August 28, 2020)
      The United States and Iraq in June affirmed their commitment to the reduction of U.S. troops in the country in coming months, with no plans by Washington to maintain permanent bases or a permanent military presence.

      In 2016 Trump campaigned on ending America’s “endless wars,” but U.S. troops remain in countries like Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria, albeit in smaller numbers.

      A U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the United States would go down to about 3,500 troops in Iraq in the next two to three months.

      Liked by 1 person

        1. My ‘likey’ not worky again….or I’d “like” this.
          I’ve been looking and found nothing to support the assertion there are more active duty boots on the ground in the ME than before. I’m kind of curious where Tsalmon got that idea? Especially with a figure like 10,000. Just common sense would indicate otherwise. Looking at what’s been going on and comparing it to before.

          The friend who is visiting is a military pilot who did airlift for the army for many years. He spent a good bit of time in parts of Africa (under Obama, when Hillary was the SoS). Wow does he have some interesting stories.
          Apparently Libya has open slave auctions now. That result of our interference kinda got buried.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. Liz,

            I feel like I am in a Sopranos’ episode.

            Like everything coming out of the Trump campaign rabbit hole, the data in that article is also old, and for good or for bad reasons, as far as I can tell, it appears that the DOD decided to quit publishing overall troop levels about that time. (There are FOIO requests out there that I don’t know the status of). I can’t get the DOD troop status tables to open, so feel free to correct the record if you are more computer capable than this old Luddite.

            I suspect that, because of the Iran threat, Troop numbers for the entire region have increased or varied somewhat within the same strategic framework. The 10,000 troop number comes from Brett McGurk who formerly served as Special Presidential Envoy for the Global Coalition to Defeat ISIS at the U.S. Department of State. I’m sure that he has his own sources, but I would imagine that he basically got that number from a Pentagon release in May:

            https://apnews.com/a770998e42de4ed98257c91210b2fbbf

            Is Trump actually RIGHT NOW conveniently lowering some troop levels only months before the election? Who knows? Is it for strategic reasons or just for propaganda purposes? Did Iran cease to be the huge threat Trump and Pompeo were pumping up just recently? Again, who knows?

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          2. Here is another example from a March 2020 WSJ Article:

            “There are approximately 90,000 American forces operating in the area overseen by U.S. Central Command, which includes the Middle East and Afghanistan, defense officials said, up from the 80,000 that were in the region in the weeks before Gen. Soleimani’s death.”

            Comes from here:

            https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/after-a-buildup-to-counter-iran-u-s-troops-begin-leaving-mideast-11583818501

            I’m going for a run now. Bye, bye!

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          3. Hope you had a good run.
            Thanks for the response.
            I couldn’t find the figures either but see nothing in either of those write-ups to indicate there are more troops on the ground in combat zone deployments than when Trump took office.

            Liked by 1 person

          4. I’d add, our personal experience would lead me to believe the opposite (since our base had a major operation that stopped under Trump). But we’ve been out for two years so I can’t speak as knowledgably anymore.

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    1. @ankushmaster

      I got a good chuckle out of the moniker you have given yourself. The helicopter parents over here would find a teacher with an elephant goad quite alarming.😆

      I expect you will enjoy this proverb.

      Proverbs 3:11-12 Good News Translation

      11 My child, when the Lord corrects you, pay close attention and take it as a warning. 12 The Lord corrects those he loves, as parents correct a child of whom they are proud.

      “The bitter side of the world”? Not sure whether you are talking about my side or your side of the world. I just know God is everywhere, and everything is part of the beauty of creation.

      Suffering is what goads us to understanding and wisdom. Even though some men use the goad unwisely, just to get their own way, God uses all things to the good of those who love Him.

      We all suffer some how some way. What matters is what we learn from our suffering. One thing I expect you try to teach children is self discipline so that they do not have to be disciplined by another. To do what is right instead of easy.

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  3. read that same phrase now for two days in a row—lines from one of my favorite Steven Curtis Chapman songs—a phrase I use a lot—God is God and I am not.
    A reminder that I am small and He is large.
    A good reminder in the midst of all of this crazy madness…I feel as if I am drowning and yet, I am reminded He is much greater and He has already saved me…

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Good post, Tom. Mob rule, the tyranny of the majority, tribalism, these are all things inherent to our biology, to our nature. So you need a social system, a structure that honors our biology in the most effective way. So if we know something like “absolute power corrupts absolutely” than we know we’re going to need a system of checks and balances. If we know the mob cares nothing about the needs of an individual, than we need to make sure we focus on protecting individual rights.

    Kind of funny, but this perpetual denial of basic human biology is part of why I started blogging. I was just discussing “defunding the cops,” with some people. So you know what happens when you do that? People just take justice into their own hands and you eventually wind up with vigilantes and lynch mobs. Our justice system may be flawed and imperfect, but lynch mobs and vigilantes are not going to be an improvement. What fascinates me is the denial, the unwillingness to embrace the truth and reality of who we are, our nature, our biological imperatives. We tend to thrive so much better if we honor and accept the truth of who we are.

    Liked by 5 people

    1. @insanitybytes22

      Pride! We want to be God because our pride demands it. So, instead of glorifying Him by choosing what is best for each other, we push each other down, trying to be king of our own little hiill covered with the remains of enemies. Even if you are the top of the hill, it is still a miserable pile of rotting flesh.

      Love means pulling each other up voluntarily. Then we can work together instead of at cross-purposes. Then we can live together in shining cities on fertile hills.

      Liked by 2 people

  5. “The purpose of a republic is to protect the individual from the tyranny of the majority.”

    This is a critical point that the founding fathers, like Madison, full understood but we don’t seem to get. Just like the electoral college protects the rest of the country from NY and California from deciding every election. It crazy how people don’t understand this. Of course, we don’t teach civics and the constitution in school anymore so it’s understandable.

    And the reason Madison said this is because mob rule makes people stupid, as this article from the Atlantic points out:

    “The theory of the “wisdom of the crowd” has been used to explain everything from the overall accuracy of Wikipedia to the logic of democracy. And in general, that principle is true: Choices made by many are usually better than those made by a few or one.

    But new research from Arizona State University and Uppsala University in Sweden adds a caveat to that notion, showing that while crowds might indeed be wise when it comes to making tough, close calls, they are actually worse than individuals at choosing between two options, one of which is vastly superior to the other. When the choice is easy, in other words, the crowd can actually be pretty dumb.”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-stupidity-of-the-crowd/278188/

    Liked by 2 people

    1. @Mel Wild

      Ants are interesting. There was a time when I was young that I would study them for hours. Here is a post with a similar theme.
      https://citizentom.com/2015/09/09/ant-democracy-how-do-ants-vote/

      We actually have a capacity to make fairly decent decisions using the marketplace. Of course, Socialists, Communists, and other busybodies hate it because they lose control. We need to ask ourselves a question. Do we really think some control freak is going to make better decisions for us than we can make for ourselves?

      Liked by 2 people

      1. “We need to ask ourselves a question. Do we really think some control freak is going to make better decisions for us than we can make for ourselves?”

        That’s a really good question! Socialism, Marxism, and their variations deny individuality and tell people what to think and demand conformance. Free market structures let people learn how to think and honor freedom. And, worse, mob rule usually sinks everyone involved to the lowest level of humanity—to reptile brain (fight-or-flight) thinking–which isn’t a good way to conduct ourselves as a society.

        Liked by 3 people

    2. Mel and Tom,

      The purpose of the Republic right now seems to simply be to promote Donald Trump. I note with no small nausea and disgust that he finally got his name in front of the White House, it’s just another Trump Tower. And to think I didn’t vote for Bill Clinton because I didn’t think it appropriate for the chief law enforcement officer to break the law by committing perjury. At least Bill could be ashamed of getting caught! I’m beginning to think that Trump doesn’t know how not to break the law, corruption to Trump is like breathing for most people, he thinks basic ethics are for fools.

      You do realize that, in Madison, you are glorifying a man who owned other people for your ideology on freedom, don’t you? Not even a small grain of salt? And please don’t tell me that Madison didn’t know it was wrong. If that is true then there is no eternal truth and there is no God. In there hearts, they All knew it was terribly wrong, and that’s why we know there’s a God, there is ultimate truth.

      The reason why what our elite, highly educated, landholding, WASP male Founders and Framers did was innovative wasn’t really their individual rights ideology. There actual ideology was corrupted by the hypocrisy of sins of so many oppressions that it barely lasted to the Civil War before we basically got a new Constitution, a new Bill of Rights. But you don’t know enough about Constitutional history and law to fully appreciate those changes, do you? You’re still living in an 18th Century Utopia that never actually existed.

      The reason why the Founders and Framers are even remembered today is because they created wonderfully resilient INSTITUTIONS. The Constitution isn’t about grand thoughts or the praising of your own arcane ideologies about it. The Constitution is about 99 percent institution building and process. It’s about our regard for and our confidence in those adaptive institutional norms and traditions that makes us something special, something rare.

      Donald Trump doesn’t understand that. He would just as well wipe his arse with the actual vibrant and vital institutions that our Constitution engenders, that essentially ARE the Constitution, and that actually protect our freedoms.

      You think ideas protect freedoms? In what court if there is no court? With what officers of the Law if there is no law, and no officers are bound by laws?

      We have campaign signs in front of the people’s house! Good Lord Save Us! And you haven’t got a clue why that is terribly wrong? No, not as long as Trump panders to your self important theological notions? Sorry if that seems harsh, but this cluelessness from people who are smart enough to know better saddens me to no end.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Wow! You have a serious case of “Trump Derangement Syndrome.” I didn’t know that And now you’re being very arrogant and insulting here. You try to browbeat me and say I’m just too ignorant to know what I’m talking about. I should just keep to my “self-important theological notions” and shut up. Trump is just brainwashing me. Whatever, I think you’re projecting the Party propaganda here. Trump actually appeals to people who think for themselves, both Republican and Democrat. He’s not a politician and he doesn’t need the power.

        You don’t know a thing about me or what I know. And if you actually love the Constitution and American traditions, then you would do everything in your power to not allow the current Socialist agenda of Bernie Sanders and AOC take over the country! They hate the Constitution and our American traditions and cultural norms. And they have all the political leverage over Biden, who’s just and empty shell at this point in his life. And especially be frightened of Marxist groups like the BLM organization (not the movement) because they and their ilk want to dissolve every structure of Western Civilization. That’s not conspiracy theory, that’s a fact based on what they’ve actually said. In fact, some of their leaders have said some of the most racist things I’ve ever heard. Nothing but mind-numbing hypocrisy.

        And I would not go do that road about our history of slavery or racism if I were you. That is, if you’re a Democrat. They are historically THE party of racism and slavery. And it’s just a new form of slavery now. They just keep black Americans angry and under their control with their broken welfare system and empty socialist promises. Fortunately, many are waking up and starting to walk away.

        Here’s a little history for you that you won’t hear on CNN and MSNBC, that debunks the myths that these racists just switched parties. And I could give you a dozen more examples if you were honest enough to actually have an open mind about it.

        Liked by 2 people

        1. Mel,

          Now that is real “Trump Derangement Syndrome”! You just did his whole conspiracy schtick. And in retort you give me a propaganda piece. Seriously? Tell me that’s not deranged in a whole other way? 😏

          You’re a serious intellectual Mel. I can tell by how you write and what you have read. I know you must have read some history. And yet your defense of Trump’s actual open destruction of our constitutional institutions is to inform me that the Democrats were “the party of slavery”, like we haven’t had a 150 years of history and constitutional amendments and Court cases that created totally new Constitution since then? Duh! You do know that a few little things happened, just in my lifetime, that sort of encouraged black folks to switch from the Party of Lincoln to the Party of Slavery, don’t you? Have you ever heard of the Civil Rights Acts?

          More importantly to a serious discussion that doesn’t just amount to throwing out jingoistic Trumpublican talking points, do you understand how the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts were empowered by the Constitution? Do you understand how the 14th Amendment turned the Constitution on it’s head? How does the Equal Protection Clause and the Due Process Clause completely change the Institutional enforcement of rights protection? Do you understand how the Federal Government took precedence over the States after the Civil War and what about the institutions of The Rule of Law dramatically changed? Do you even get what I’m saying when I say that the Constitution isn’t just a document that I took oaths to support and defend – it IS the living, breathing institutions it engenders?

          I’m an open book Mel. I’m a lawyer and a retired Navy Pilot. I have a lifetime of reading mostly books and treatises by authoritative sources for my actual understanding our history and of the systemics of the modern democratic state. I keep up with current events through credible news sources, but I don’t get my real understanding of these events from cable news or through your propaganda films. I have read enough of what you’ve written to know and admire the fact that you obviously are the same when it comes to your theological opinions.

          So I treat you like a grown up intellectual who should know better than to just blithely accept what went on at the White House last night. Imagine my disappointment with your propagandist pablum response above? Why don’t you use that amazingly insightful intellect that you obviously have applied to receive and relay your amazing religious revelations to an in depth dive into institutional democracy and the Rule of Law? Do this BEFORE you use your pulpit to promote populist idiocy.

          Bernie Sanders? Who cares? He’s just a less dangerously corrupt brand of empty suit populism than Trump is. He’s a pompous false prophet of the basically toothless variety, just an old troll who has never actually passed a major bill. The fact that Sanders IS NOT the Democratic Nominee and that so many traditional, decent, respected people who would normally vote Republican (people like Doug and me) are actually supporting Biden is what you ought to wonder about.

          If I seem harsh, it was because I respect you enough to not treat you like a child. If I thought you were stupid, I wouldn’t bother. We can vehemently disagree, and still love each other you know? It’s why I come here at all. I love my brother enough to try to argue with him. But if you’re going to take it the wrong way and get personally insulted, then I’ll leave you alone. My purpose, like your purpose when you preach, is not to hurt feelings, but to open hearts and minds. You’re obviously better at it than I am, but I’m sure that you also know that with some people, they are so attached to their delusions, it’s impossible not to damage their egos in the process. TDS? Really? 😆

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      2. “And to think I didn’t vote for Bill Clinton because I didn’t think it appropriate for the chief law enforcement officer to break the law by committing perjury.”

        Perjury is a felony, a criminal act. Having a convention speech at the White House (the President’s residence and the safest place to have a live public event during the pandemic) is not. There is no comparison.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. @Mel Wild
          @tsalmon

          Even the White House is not safe. The Democrat Party rioters rioted in DC after Trump’s convention speech. They physically attacked the people who attended when they were leaving.

          Senator Rand Paul should be getting combat pay. He is most certainly earning it. He has been attacked by a crazed Democrat neighbor, shot at by a Bernie Sanders supporter, and last night he was attacked by a lunatic Democrat inspired mob (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8672681/BLM-protesters-gather-outside-White-House-Trumps-RNC-speech.html). That is what fighting majoritarian tyranny looks like.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. @Mel Wild

            Yeah! “Mostly peaceful protesters.” And I am a mostly peaceful angry white male bigot, at least that is the way the news media portrayed Tea Party protesters. Funny thing is we hurt no one, cleaned up after ourselves, treated authorities respectively, and welcomed minority participation.

            Liked by 2 people

        2. I violates the Hatch Act. An actual law. Part of the bedrock institution we call The Rule of Law. And it’s not even a close call. It also violates any number of ethical norms, or do we just pick and choose which laws and ethics our Presidents get to enforce and which they get to violate?

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          1. I know Mel, but every other public employee that participated in that spectacle violated the law. Period. Not even close. So Trump just promotes and participates lawlessness.

            Presidents have customarily followed the spirit of the Hatch Act as a matter of obvious ethics, to set an example for others and to protect their staff. But basic ethics and simple decency simply do not matter to Trump. When our president represents selfish win-at-all-costs lawlessness, it’s no wonder there is rioting and looting on his watch.

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          2. Again, not true. From the OSC:

            “Under longstanding regulations governing the Hatch Act, there are certain areas of the White House where the Hatch Act does not prohibit federal employees from engaging in political activity. The South Lawn and Rose Garden are two such areas. Therefore, covered federal employees would not necessarily violate the Hatch Act merely by attending political events in those areas.”

            Liked by 1 person

          3. I know Mel, but every other public employee that participated in that spectacle violated the law. Period.

            In 2012, the Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius, Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar, Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack, Secretary of Education Arne Duncan, Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric Shinseki, and Karen Mills, administrator of the U.S. Small Business Administration each addressed the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte.

            Liked by 2 people

          4. Liz,

            Ok, was the DNC in 2012 held on federal property by paid federal employees acting in their official capacities?

            Here are just some of the prohibition guidelines from the OSC given for “less restricted” federal employees while they are essentially on duty:

            “Engage in political activity – i.e., activity directed at the success or failure of a political party, candidate for partisan political office, or partisan political group – while the employee is on duty, in any federal room or building, while wearing a uniform or official insignia, or using any federally owned or leased vehicle. For example, while at work employees may not:

            “Distribute campaign materials or items

            “Display campaign materials or items

            “Perform campaign related chores

            “​Wear or display partisan political buttons, t-shirts, signs, or other items

            “Make political contributions to a partisan political party, candidate for partisan political office, or partisan political group

            “Post a comment to a blog or a social media site that advocates for or against a partisan political party, candidate for partisan political office, or partisan political group

            ​“Use any email account or social media to distribute, send, or forward content that advocates for or against a partisan political party, candidate for partisan political office, or partisan political group . . . .“

            The rules are even more stiff for restricted employees. Go ahead and look up the guidelines. Read them carefully. Look at the fact that even Senators and Congressmen must leave their official government offices and go to a private office space before they can solicit campaign contributions or talk about campaign issues.

            Am I saying that there isn’t some wiggle room at the margins, especially for a president living in his own home? No, that’s not how laws work. But this wasn’t even a close call.

            “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.”
            F. Scott Fitzgerald

            You have a first rate intelligence Liz, and this ask isn’t that hard. Close your eyes and imagine the horror of Obama holding his DNC nomination acceptance speech and celebration on the White House lawn with full Obama/Biden campaign regalia in front of 1500 mostly maskless spectators including publicly paid employees while in the midst of an out-of-control health emergency, and a corresponding economic collapse, and corresponding nationwide protests over racial injustice, including scattered rioting and looting, and you clearly knew that the spectacle violated long standing laws, ethical rules and traditions?

            Come on now, hold that image in your mind and tell me honestly that you would not think Obama was being callous, callow, unethical and encouraging lawlessness. What praises for Obama would you be singing, I mean howling, right now?

            I mean, don’t you think that there is a reason why this has not happened before? This is tin pot dictator stuff. And ultimately it’s pretty desperate, don’t you think?

            “Don’t pay attention to the 1000 deaths per day. Our sporting events aren’t really being played before cardboard cutout crowds when they aren’t cancelled in protest. Millions of Americans aren’t newly unemployed and looking at evictions. Angry people aren’t protesting right outside the barricade they have to put around the White House in this Trump dystopian. No, that’s not happening. Let’s party. Let’s do some bazaar and macabre scene from Poe’s ‘Mask if the Red Death’.

            How much luck do you think anyone has ever had in convince cult followers that their Dear Leader is corrupt and crazy? How much are they willing to ignore and excuse?

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          5. “Quote got cut off. Last sentence should say:
            ‘Therefore, covered federal employees would not necessarily violate the Hatch Act merely by attending political events in those areas.’

            Good job Mel! Now we are arguing the difference between technical violations and violations of the spirit or philosophy of the law. You realize don’t you that this is the equivalent of saying that, because you were cleaning your floors, you moved you TV out to the lawn and a thief stole it, so it wasn’t technically a burglary, then it’s morally ok, right?Weird argument for a preacher, don’t you think?

            The Hatch Act is relatively toothless, but it’s purpose, to separate campaign activity from official government, taxpayer paid business, is important for obvious ethical reasons. It’s followed less because people think that they are going to jail than because they don’t want to be seen as unethical and sully their honor and reputation. (An honorable reputation is usually something that politicians protect, but Trump is an amazing exception).

            I think that the South Lawn spectacle is a violation of the Hatch Act, but even if you think the employees involved should get off on a legal technicality for that, did they do all the planning and prep outside? What about Trump’s long dramatic entrance? What about the people watching from the White House balcony? What about several other campaign staged events in public buildings and while doing official duties that were used at the Convention? What about Pompeo’s speech?

            And the technical legal question aside Mel, what about the moral question which I would think would be more within you wheelhouse? We make exceptions for the President because he actually lives in the People’s House. This was an obvious unethical abuse of the privilege of those exceptions that is about a thousand times worse than if Clinton purposefully rented out the Lincoln bedroom to his biggest campaign donors.

            Remember when Republicans used to get upset about unseemly stuff like that? Do you remember when a preacher would? Do you remember when a leader’s character actually mattered to religious folk?Those were the days! Let’s “make America great again, again” and get back to those days! 😉

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          6. “Use any email account or social media to distribute, send, or forward content that advocates for or against a partisan political party, candidate for partisan political office, or partisan political group . . . .“
            The rules are even more stiff for restricted employees. Go ahead and look up the guidelines. Read them carefully. Look at the fact that even Senators and Congressmen must leave their official government offices and go to a private office space before they can solicit campaign contributions or talk about campaign issues.

            I’m learning a lot reading up on this, and will continue to read more when I have time.
            The above is interesting to me as I’ve never heard the Hatch act invoked from the Podesta e mails….Clinton campaign Chairman John Podesta. There were thousands of election related exchanges from the e mail account she used for official only business.

            Liked by 1 person

          7. I asked the question to a Yale graduate lawyer and he said the following:
            Because Republicans were more concerned about Hillary’s missing emails & how many of the personal emails had classified information to worry about the Hatch Act. Unlike Democrats, Republicans don’t actually believe in weaponizing those statutes to go after their opponents.

            And…looking back, the democrats did charge Bush junior with violation of the Hatch act. Result of which was to dissolve White House Office of Political Affairs (which existed long before Bush junior was in office).

            Liked by 1 person

          8. Gosh Liz. Your argument basically is that because the other tribe broke or fudged the rules, then my tribe need not have any rules. Their sins somehow make our greater sins sins sacred.

            In such a mean worldview, truth and justice are relative to tribal power and control. Don’t worry about history, as Bill Bar said, the victors write the history.

            I go back to whether or not Bill Clinton allegedly selling out stays in the Lincoln bedroom was wrong, regardless of if it was technically illegal or prosecutable because it defrauded the purpose of the immunity provided by the law? I therefore think think it was illegal, but it definitely was wrong morally and ethically to prostitute the public’s house for political gain.

            We can quibble about each arguable whataboutism if you want, but the prostitution of the White House for political gain this past week was a quantum increase in scope to any of those other examples, including the Clinton one. You know it, Tom knows it, I know it, we all know it. And, if universal morality is more than just the crude meanness of which tribe buys their political conquest at the highest price for their souls, then this immorality should not be rewarded by victory, or by history.

            Note that you aren’t even arguing that Trump’s debauchery of the Presidency is ethical. Your whole argument instead appears to be the appropriation of schoolyard taunt of shadow projection: “I know the Republicans are, but what are the Dems”? I like it though – it keeps making my point better than I can. 😊

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          9. Gosh Liz. Your argument basically is that because the other tribe broke or fudged the rules, then my tribe need not have any rules. Their sins somehow make our greater sins sins sacred.

            But…in HillaryClinton.com’s case she was not only presidential material but the most capable person to ever run. So….?
            Now the Hatch act is terribly important.
            Then, national security (State Department communication via home-brewed server) wasn’t even important enough to worry about let alone some obscure piece of legislation that is now so very very important.
            I don’t know the specifics in this case.
            People seem to be all over the map.
            Think it depends on what “on duty” means. If the speakers were officially off duty maybe it’s okay? No idea.

            Liked by 1 person

          10. The above is a video. The speaker talks about revolution, points to the White House and says “we’re not going to wait for an election we need to rip that mo*f*cker out of office right now!”
            There is a compelling argument televising from the White house was the safe move considering the circumstances. Maybe the lawyers worked around the legalities.

            Liked by 1 person

          11. @tsalmon (to the following comment):
            “The Hatch Act is relatively toothless, but it’s purpose, to separate campaign activity from official government, taxpayer paid business, is important for obvious ethical reasons.”

            But you told Liz and me it’s the LAW. The rule of law NO.IT’S.NOT. That is false. All of your examples to Liz don’t apply. No matter how many times you complain about this, the legal facts are still the facts. The President and the VP CAN use the Rose Garden and the South Lawn, including ALL federal employees involved.

            Then you say it’s a moral violation? How so? No sitting president has ever been under these conditions. Trump was not allowed to have a live audience where he wanted to have it because of the pandemic. Former Presidents had the choice of meeting in other places. So, should Trump just hide in his basement like Biden did for the last four months and then have what wasn’t much better than a Zoom call? It’s his right to have it at the White House, especially if he doesn’t have another live venue. Don’t you think ANY other sitting President wouldn’t have done this under these conditions? And it can be safely done there since everyone must be vetted for the virus before they’re allowed in. There’s nothing immoral about that, especially under the unusual circumstances of 2020. You would be more believable if you would just admit you’re complaining because you hate Trump, which is obvious by your tone, even though you will never admit it. If Obama had done it under these same conditions, I would understand why.

            I’m sorry but your current batch of “anybody-but-Trump” candidates are a lot more broken and in trouble than any advantage Trump may have gained by doing his speech on the White House grounds. You can’t blame their failure on venues.

            Liked by 1 person

      3. @tsalmon
        @Mel Wild

        We have campaign signs in front of the people’s house! Good Lord Save Us! And you haven’t got a clue why that is terribly wrong? No, not as long as Trump panders to your self important theological notions?

        You can’t even explain what is wrong with it. All you can do is posture and tell us how dumb we are and how smart you are.

        Did I glorify James Madison as the perfect man? Of course not!

        Imagine being born in the Roman Empire a couple of thousand years ago. Half the population was enslaved. It is the natural tendency of the strong to enslave the weak. So, you would not have seen anything wrong with slavery, You would have just wanted to be one of the strong, one of those owning slaves.

        Because of Christian teachings, men like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison struggled with the idea of slavery. Later generations, in part because of men like Washington, Jefferson, and Madison, continued to wonder what to do. Hence, men like Robert E. Lee found themselves divided at the beginning of the Civil War. Yet they fought and the battle was bloody.

        We are all sinners. You and I are sinners. Hence, when you point at what you call Mel’s and my sins, you had better pull that log out of your eye first.

        Have Mel and I pulled that log out our own eyes? All I know for certain is that what the Bible says it true. You belong to God, not me. God wants each of us to love our neighbors, not own them. Even the will of the majority does not give us the right to tyrannize each other. Yet that is what party you are supporting — by endlessly condemning those who oppose it — stands for, majoritarian tyranny. That’s why you have spoken of Madison, the Father of the Constitution, so harshly. No one said Madison was perfect, but you don’t actually respect the Constitution, the work for which Madison is most highly regarded. You pay lip service to the Constitution. Otherwise, you would not support the Marxist/Socialist “Liberal” Democratic Party.

        Think about what “Liberal” meant to the founders and what it means to Democrats these days. Modern “Liberals” have to change the words that used describe themselves lest they be exposed. Therefore, they now call themselves “Progressives”, but they would just take us back to another form of slavery. Like it or not, the Democratic Party remains the party that divides us and defends slavery.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Well, at least that’s a grown up reply brother. Mischaracterizes everything I wrote, but it’s a start. Why do I have to be in favor of rioting to believe in peaceful protest, and like virtually every major sports team in the country, recognize that we still have an implicit racism problem. Mel, have you picked up on this stupid authoritarian trope too? The same one that MLK faced from George Wallace? Do we ever learn anything?

          I got things to do now that the storm threat has passed. But I’ll give it some thought and respond to the salient parts when I have time. ❤️

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          1. @tsalmon
            @Mel Wild

            I said very little about you. You are trying to make it personal. I said majoratarian tyranny is wrong, and that is the alternative to Trump.

            It is about a choice. You want to make it about whether Trump is perfect, and that is BS. Dishonest BS. The alternative hides the truth about itself. That’s why you attack Trump instead of selling Biden.

            Liked by 1 person

          2. “It is about a choice. You want to make it about whether Trump is perfect, and that is BS. Dishonest BS. The alternative hides the truth about itself. That’s why you attack Trump instead of selling Biden.“

            It’s your blog Tom so you want to make up some weird rules then you can, but where does it say I have to defend anyone? The is like saying that I can’t point out that the mayor of my town is stealing public funds unless I can explain how perfect his political opponent is. What is actually disingenuous, even hypocritical, is to ignore obvious corruption because the conman and thief belongs to your political tribe.

            You act like Biden is in charge and Trump is some kind of insurgent. To switch metaphors, Trump ran the ship of state up on the current rocky shore where we find ourselves, not Biden. Your president and your party is all propaganda and no actual policy or plan, except voter suppression, demagoguery about phantom socialists and communists and lots of magical thinking that a country dealing with several Trump exacerbated crises is somehow a morning in America that will turn into some dark dystopia night if we put someone with well known bipartisan decency and competence in charge.

            You don’t see that and the whole Republican Convention as surreal? A Trump Reality TV drama staged at the People’s House? Seriously?

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          3. @tsalmon

            Weird? It is a choice between Trump or Biden, and all you can do is tell us you hate Trump, and none of your reasons make sense. Yet you have nothing to say about Biden. I guess you are sitting out this election.

            Like

        2. @ Tom.
          Well said, Tom. Btw, there is actually a technical difference in terms between “liberal” and “leftist.” The terms have been conflated in recent years. But what we’re seeing today is the leftists taking over the liberal wing of the Democratic Party. This is also why so many moderate and liberal Democrats are walking away, hence the #walkaway movement.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. @Mel Wild
            @tsalmon

            Tsalmon is taking the typical Liberal Democrat tact of complaining how you argue your case instead trying to debate the case you are making. That way he does not have to say anything about Joe Biden and the Democratic Party’s record or platform. He just constantly finds some silly excuse to attack Trump.

            The Democratic Party has a lousy record, and Socialist have taken over platform. “Moderate” lunch bucket Joe has a decades long record of either being wrong or unwilling to defend what he did right. He cannot be counted upon to stand for anything. He is can be counted upon to sell us out. Ask China’s Communist regime.

            Liked by 1 person

          2. Exactly, Tom. Here’s another example of people walking away from the Democratic failed policies…from Democrats themselves! Vernon Jones, the Democratic Representative from Georgia gave an amazing speech at the RNC. He really lays out why so many black Americans are jumping ship from the failed Democratic policies that have kept them enslaved. Jones goes more into depth in the following interview with Charlie Kirk:

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          3. Tom, Mel,

            Republicans have a platform? News to me. Last I heard they had a list of talking points that basically amount to “We worship Trump!” How.does one debate that?

            Mel, forgive me if you feel you are being victimized by my attempt at humor. I think my sarcasm mainly hides a sense of disappointment at what seems an obvious turn on your part toward political tribalism. If that seems personal, it is meant to be. Your preaching has always had a loving personal tone that reflects, in my opinion, your deep revelation of how the human heart Is leading us to a Christ who is also eternally calling each of us. You can’t get any more personal than that nor should you get any less.

            Please don’t mistake a friendly ribbing with judging you personally. As you say, I don’t know you personally, but you are the one mixing the Heart of our Lord with politics and you have to admit, that is the most important and personal journey of the heart.

            Also, I am not saying that our faith should not guide our civic duties just as it must guide every aspect of our lives. However, you very well know the difference between that and tribalism, and your comments here have slipped the boundaries. You also very well know and have preached that a “Christian Worldview” Is inherently not tribal and that the two are incompatible – Jesus was obviously not tribal and neither was Paul, else Christianity would still be a small sect of Judaism in Palestine. Here is an interesting article by a Christian student that explores how that “Christian Worldview” has become corrupted by the power of political tribalism as of late:

            https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/opinion/jerry-falwell-liberty.amp.html

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          4. Tony, I agree with you that Christ is not tribal, but then why are you being so tribal and parroting NYT op-eds and basically repeating CNN and MSNBC talking points, which are as as far-left and tribal Trump-hate as you can get! The fact that you dismiss the Republican platform as Trump worship proves you’ve never actually read it, or at least you hope we haven’t read it and will give you a a pass. Your comment IS pure partisan tribalism.

            I don’t worship Trump, and neither does anyone else. Don’t confuse excitement about accomplishments and vision with worship. All I see from the Trump-haters is rage and doing the same things over and over again for the last 50 years and expecting different results. What has Biden actually accomplished in 47 years? People are seeing through this media brainwashing and walking away in droves.

            What you don’t seem to get is that I’m not a Republican or a Democrat. People like me are quite fed up with both parties. That’s what resonates with us, and what you and the “anybody-but-Trump” media doesn’t seem to get. Both liberals and conservatives from both parties have had enough of the decades of the self-serving DC “swamp” (which is the perfect name for it). And Biden sits at the very bottom of that swamp.

            And I won’t bow or take a knee to the segregationist racist and Marxist BLM agenda or the Antifa thugs either, even though I’m all for black people getting true justice and I’m for police reform. I’m not just calling them names; they’ve admitted themselves that they are Marxists. These radical organizations clearly have a different agenda than real justice. I’ve read what they’ve said, I’ve seen their actions. I’ve seen their hatred. And they are evil.

            And why do you think I can’t love my country as a Christian and speak out when I see it being destroyed? My love for Jesus and freedom must translate to my love for the people of the culture in which I live. You can’t compartmentalize the two. I speak out BECAUSE of what I see happening to our country. Not so that everyone can think like me, but so that everyone can be free to choose how THEY want to live in a free society. I’m for free speech, not cancel culture and the totalitarian intolerance I’ve seen abundantly from the left recently. I, and the rest of America, see the evil fruit of their ideology in the burning our cities down, looting, in the beating up and killing innocent people, in governments shutting down cities, and in the escalating crime because the police are not permitted to police. We’ve seen racial division like we haven’t haven’t seen since Jim Crow days from these demagogues, not to mention, the intentional destruction of Western values. CNN and MSNBC won’t show this, so they are culpable.

            The proof in what I’m saying is out there on social media and other sources for anyone who cares to look to see for themselves. It’s not a myth, as Nadler so foolishly said. People aren’t being fooled anymore, Tony. And what’s going on is not something ANY Christian who loves Jesus should ever be for; it’s the very opposite of Christ, and the very opposite of what great civil right leaders, like Martin Luther King, Jr., stood for. It’s a travesty of justice. He fought for Christ’s ideology, where there is no distinction between race, gender, or class. That’s the opposite of the Marxist ideals of identity politics and cancel culture.

            You can take what I say or leave it, but I make no apologies for speaking out, sir. Our country is burning down in more ways than one right now. This goes beyond tribal politics. If my neighbor’s house was burning down, I would do all I could to help that family. If Trump were a liberal Democrat and he was doing what he’s done for the country in just three short years, I would be for him as a Democrat. I’m for Christ first, and for this country second, and for political party not at all. And when I see someone fighting the corruption in Washington, regardless of tribe, who is helping all people find more opportunity and freedom to worship and be free than they’ve had before, I will be for them every time. It’s not Trump worship. You need to stop feeding on the Trump-hater propaganda from the mainstream media. It’s about a stark difference in ideologies and worldviews. I say what I say because I’ve carefully researched the facts that the mainstream media is suppressing. And I will make no apology for it. I say this because I live in this world and, as a Christian, it is my duty to have a voice. It seems you are the one who needs to pause and think about why you hate Trump so much. Sounds pretty tribal to me.

            Liked by 1 person

          5. From Ballotpoint:

            The Republican National Committee adopted a resolution regarding the platform on August 22, 2020, that reiterated that the party would not adopt a new platform because “it did not want a small contingent of delegates formulating a new platform without the breadth of perspectives within the ever-growing Republican movement.” The resolution also noted the party’s continued support for Trump’s America First agenda.[5]

            On August 23, 2020, Trump released a list of his core priorities for a second term in office.

            “What you don’t seem to get is that I’m not a Republican or a Democrat.”

            That’s refreshing, Mel, but what you don’t seem to get is that neither am I. On the other hand, you sound very much like a follower of Trump, something that is neither Democrat nor Republican, neither liberal nor conservative, not in any traditional sense. That’s the tribe you’ve obviously chosen and you are parroting their internet driven, conspiracy theory talking points almost verbatim.

            Do you even hear how surreal and distorted your vision of America sounds? Do you even get how ridiculous it is, after three and a half years, if Trump is in charge, that he escape any accountability for, not just not handling foreseeable and unforeseeable problems with competence, integrity and compassion, but also for actually making the problems worse?

            I’m a simple military guy Mel. If the country really is such a wreck, then who’s watch did it all happen on? In the military, we tend to hold the guy in charge accountable, not give him four more years, not make excuses and blame everything on imaginary dark evil forces.

            I’m also, like yourself, a Christian Mel, and I’ve learned (in part from inspired folks like yourself) not to blame everyone else for my own screw ups, my own sins. In your pop psychology terminology, that’s called projecting my own shadow everywhere else but where it belongs. In leadership terms, it’s called letting go of our grievance mentality and recognizing that, if I am in charge, then I am almost always the common denominator of all my problems and I am responsible for the situations I find myself in. Period. Full stop.

            I’m a retired airline pilot Mel. Can you imagine if you were a passenger on an aircraft, and the captain said on the PA, “It looks like we are all going to crash and burn folks, but don’t blame me, blame the weather we have flown ourselves into, weather that, because of evil Socialist forced, I am just too incompetent to handle”?

            Leadership is about integrity, responsibility and. accountability, not scapegoating and blame shifting. You’re too smart not to realize also that, as Christians, when we start accusing other people of being “evil”, we have crossed a line between where we are judging actions and judging souls?

            I don’t hate Trump. I pity him and pray for him. I don’t think Trump is “evil”, not my job, I just think he should be held accountable for the leadership role he has taken and obviously failed at. I don’t hate any tribe, nor do I feel the desire to join and defend one. I can even agree with some of what you are saying about the Democrats without feeling to need to follow the Trumpublican tribe either. Can you do the same? It sounds like you’ve joined a tribe, sworn allegiance and are now casting the enemy tribe as “evil”. Am I wrong? You are not convincing me otherwise by just doubling down on tribalistic good-us-versus-“evil”-them rhetoric Reverend.

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          6. Exactly, Tony. The party adopted Trump’s policies because they are working! They’re not stupid. They see the handwriting on the wall. That people won’t accept Washington politics as usual. That’s awesome and should be applauded.

            And it’s Democrat cities, controlled by Democrat governors and Democrat mayors, who are allowing their cities to burn down and allowing totally lawlessness. THEY are the ones responsible. They refused Trump’s offer to help, over and over again. They are in total denial of what they’re feckless leadership has done to these beautiful cities. The federal government CANNOT step in unless they are asked to do so by the governors/mayors. That’s the law. The only way this can be overruled is through the insurrection act. So, your parroting the Democrat talking points on trying to blame Trump for everything just rings hollow and no one who actually knows what’s going believes this. That’s a non-starter for anyone outside the “anyone-but-Trump” camp.

            I would like to ask you a question. What SPECIFIC policies can you point to that would make Trump a bad leader? And what has Biden SPECIFICALLY accomplished over the last 47 years that would make us want to trust him with our future? I sure would like you to honestly answer that without giving me your Democrat spin.

            Liked by 1 person

          7. @Mel Wild
            @tsalmon

            Tsalmon, are you trying to tell us you are smarter and wiser than Mel? So, that is why we should believe you?

            Are you trying to tell us that because the Chinese Communists spread a virus Trump protect us, that is why we should dump Trump?

            Are you trying to tell us the Chinese virus is a big deal so we should quarantine everyone, but Republicans should update their platform anyway, even though the party still stands for the same things?

            Frankly, you don’t make any sense. As Mel said earlier, you just repeat what you heard on the idiot box or read in The New York Times. So, I don’t feel ashamed of myself or Mel for disagreeing with you. I am not even saddened by the fact I cannot change your heart and mind. Because you belong to God, we must leave it to God to decide what to do about the heart and mind of others.

            Of course, you are voting for people who don’t believe that others are entitled to their own opinions. Diversity of appearance they approve, but a diversity of ideas and the expression of those ideas is hate speech.

            Like

          8. “I would like to ask you a question. What SPECIFIC policies can you point to that would make Trump a bad leader? And what has Biden SPECIFICALLY accomplished over the last 47 years that would make us want to trust him with our future?”

            Mel,

            I was going to write a long answer. At first, I thought about giving a long laundry list of Trump’s failures, his lies, his endless acts of corruption, his breaking of norms, his making us as a country at first laughable and then pitiable on the world stage, his science denial, his venality, his narcissism, his scattershot instinctive Id approach to complex problems, his lack of fidelity to anything and anyone, his racist tropes, his absence of basic grace and empathy, and on and on for pages. But Mel, you are either aware of all that already and you just don’t care as long as Trump trolls the hated Libs (or Leftists or whatever label that you want to put on these poor folks who you’ve moralized against and judged “evil”), or you are so trapped your Right Wing bubble that you aren’t aware at all and in that.case, why is it my place to educate a smart man like you? Read a book. Several tell all books are out or on their way from Trump’s relatives, friends and closest advisors.

            Then I thought that I would simply say that, unlike most of the developed world and even some of the undeveloped world, COVID-19 is out of control in our country and Trump is accountable for every one of those 160,000 deaths and counting, our economy is in deep recession, tens of millions of Americans are out of work, protests grip the country, we have violence, looting and Trump inspired vigilanteism in some cities, and Trump is in charge. These are national emergencies and our failed responses to all of this is happening on Trump’s watch. This isn’t a trial, it’s a performance review to see why we should renew Trump’s contract for four more years after he has landed our ship of state on the rocks. I don’t have to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. If Trump wants the privilege to SERVE US four another term, he must prove to us why he is not accountable for this disaster. But you’ve already heard all of that, and as you have said, you like it this way because you hate and fear those “evil” extreme Leftists so much that you actually prefer a corrupt, incompetent leader as long as he is just authoritarian enough to kick a few deranged kids butts, no matter who gets caught in the crossfire. So what’s the point?

            So I just decided to give you the most simple answer of why I think most independents, like myself will not vote for Trump and will instead support Biden. I’m exhausted by the division and chaos that Trump stirs up everywhere he goes and especially at both extremes of the political divide. Trump absolutely thrives on this chaos. He’s like some enormous Black (well, really Orange) Hole, the center of a gaping need to fill his insatiable ego that swallows all the attention, all the ratings, all the time.

            I’m definitely a news junky, but I would just love to read the front pages of newspapers for days, maybe weeks at a time where I could forget that we even have a President. Please give me somebody stable, proven, amiable, decent and, especially, the more boring the better, somebody just like Joe Biden.

            If you think Uncle Joe is captured by the cancel culturing, hate filled, Marxist chanting, extreme Left Mel, then I think you’re so full of Right Wing propaganda that your eyes must be a darker shade of brown at this point.

            You know what else would be great about a retired Trump? I would like not to have preachers of Christ’s love who I admire greatly suddenly chanting revanchist drivel about how evil commies and socialists (I guess that there must be like five of them) will soon take over the country if we elect an amiable, decent guy who has been loved by conservative Republicans over the years perhaps even more than by his fellow Democrats. I would like to have people who call themselves Christians stop demonizing fellow Americans who just disagree with them. (I know. You are now going to say that I demonize Trump, but I have never thought he was “evil”. I even think he’s pretty entertaining. I just think Trump is too fundamentally flawed to lead a two car clown parade).

            So that’s it Mel. I just would like the Peace of Christ to be our focus instead of all this hatred, back stabbing, tribalism and division that Trump constantly instigates on both the far Left and the far Right. So I’ve convinced you right? 😊

            Strangely enough, i retain a good deal of hope that we will eventually come out of this as better friends than before. I know that I would find it impossible to hold a grudge against you, even if you vote for that madman Trump. Do you ever wonder if we all just have way too much time on our hands? 😉

            Like

          9. You didn’t answer my question. You gave no SPECIFIC POLICIES, just your opinion, sweeping generalities, and anti-Trump talking points we hear everyday from the news media. That’s what I figured because it’s all I ever hear from Trump haters.

            I, too, wish we could talk about Christ and His Kingdom. It pains me that I have to speak out about this, but what can I do when the radical left has come unhinged and is burning down our country while Biden hides in his basement and blames Trump. I’ll be glad when November 4th comes and he can stay in his basement and not bother anyone anymore. Retirement would be good for Joe. I will wish him well.

            Liked by 2 people

          10. I smile when you talk about propaganda. I would suggest that instead of feeding on the left-wing newspapers that don’t report the news anymore, just partisan op-eds, you would do well to look beyond your echo chamber and spend some time watching the tens of thousands of video testimonials from former liberal Democrats who have walked away from the insanity. You need to see how brainwashed you really are. Of course, you would have to be willing to be open to something you don’t want to see. Of course, you could just stay in your echo chamber and keep parroting the anti-Trump propaganda. Here’s the channel:
            https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDb4InP9mRZR9oogD1b2dOQ

            Liked by 1 person

          11. @tsalmon

            It would help if you focused on the issues instead of making others or your self the issue.

            Do we sometimes choose to believe lies? Is the problem sometimes that we choose to believe what we want to believe instead of what is true? Yes and yes. Still, we cannot convince someone of the truth. We can only encourage them to see and listen to the truth.

            Until we choose to examine the truth, we cannot see the truth. Until we are willing to listen, we cannot hear the truth. There are none so blind as those who will not see. There are none so deaf as those who will not hear.

            We cannot control what others refuse to see or hear. We can only control we wish to see and hear. When we are not discussing the issues, trying to discern the truth from the lies, we are not looking at the truth or trying to hear the truth. We are just being cute.

            Did Trump make a mess of the COVID-19 pandemic. No. There is little evidence of that. We have a federation. Trump leads the national government, and the national government did what it was supposed to do. Trump did not send elderly people with active COVID-19 infections into nursing homes.

            You want to compare us to the Europeans? The stats are not easily compared. We been through this before.

            Fact is that the news media is just using the stats to further an agenda, not get at the truth. However, if we go back to the original objective, keeping the hospitals from being overwhelmed, Trump can easily claim mission accomplished at this point. There is little evidence that the hospitals were ever filled with COVID-19 patients. Instead, hospitals were underutilized because people with other serious conditions were put off to make room for COVID-19 patients who never showed up.

            What will the fall be like? Will we have a resurgence of COVID19? Probably not, but only time will tell.

            Fact is that the only criticism I have of Trump is that our nation overreacted to COVID-19, but that overreaction largely came from Democrat politicians, who went from pooh-poohing the pandemic and proclaiming Trump a xenophobe to shrieking in terror and saying he wasn’t doing enough. Not the people I want to be in a foxhole with.

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          12. Mel,

            I gave you an honest answer. It IS the main reason why I won’t vote for Trump. I think that is the honest reason why most Americans who don’t imagine themselves knowing everything about “policies” will vote for Biden.

            You want to talk about policies? Nope, you want to practice the popular pastime of verbal diarrhea about things you know little about that the famed religious philosopher, Alasdair MacIntyre, called “emotivism”.

            What do you actually know about “policies”? Tell me about your degrees, your extensive study, your vast experience in the Law, Economics, Military Service and Strategy, Government, Health Care, Leadership, News Reporting? I’m all ears and willing to sit at your knee and learn if you can explain why your opinion on “policies” matters more than wagging tail of my cocker spaniel puppy.

            You’ve know doubt heard the expression that opinions are like anuse (or is it “ani”?)? What do you actually know about the intricacies of health care (something like one third of our economy)? What do you know about strategic defense (our defense spending Is bigger than the next 10 countries put together)? What wars have you served in? What medals did you earn? What was your intel classification level? Do you have some hidden expertise in micro and macro economics that you’re hiding under your hat? It’s obvious that you don’t know jack about the systemics of the modern democratic state, the operation of government, the sausage making of constitutional law, do you?

            Nah my friend, what you do is emote your feelings in big sobs and globs of rhetoric (something you’re obviously good at) and pretend that you know something about complex “policies” that you don’t? You make up fantasies about “evil” socialists hiding under your bed to burn your house down and then you cry that you want big, bad Cadet Bone Spur to come save you. Do you realize how laughable that is? God save us from the “policy” pontifications if self inflated preachers and pundits! 😆

            I’ve given you my opinions on the things that I know a little bit about, but you spit on any real expertise don’t you? Reverend, I’ll sit beneath you humbly and listen to you talk about Scripture and your revelations about Christ all day long, but what do you know about policies? When are you going to drop that smug condescension and actual learn? Yeah, jump out of your bubble read some credible newspapers and magazines. I know they are all conspiring with the Illuminati to get you. 😆

            Oh well. I still love you Mel. Go ahead, school me on policies preacher? I‘m retired now. I got time.

            Like

          13. @tsalmon

            While you are trying to making someone feel a insignificant as you can, you are telling them you love them. When are giving us nothing but your feelings, you are making accusations of emotivism? Why do you have to make it so personal?

            Liked by 1 person

          14. So you refuse to answer why a person actually SHOULD vote for a person, based on policies and execution of those policies, and will rely totally on feelings and what the news media feeds you. Then don’t bother with your long answers. We’re not that interested in opinions that have no basis in facts, Tony.

            Like

          15. @tsalmon

            I was just asking you which policy(s) makes Trump a bad leader. You don’t need a degree to answer this, Tony. All you need to do is just go beyond opinions and the constant Trump hatred in the news media and see what his policies are for yourself.

            We shouldn’t be voting for or against someone because we don’t like what they tweet. That’s irrelevant. We should be voting for the candidate with the best policies, and their ability to execute those policies. That’s what a president’s job is. I’m sorry you take that so personally but I won’t vote for Biden, not because I don’t like him, but because his proposed policies would be very bad for this country, among other things. He is also a very weak leader. We’ve had 47 years to see that. We need a strong leader right now. Trump has proven that in just three years.

            Liked by 1 person

          16. This is why I will vote for Trump, not on emotional issues but on accomplishments. This is what Trump accomplished in three and a half years while Pelosi and crew accomplished one things….a failed impeachment based on lies.
            Here’s a non-exhaustive list:

            1. Almost 4 million jobs created since election.
            2. More Americans are now employed than ever recorded before in our history.
            3. We have created more than 400,000 manufacturing jobs since election.
            4. Manufacturing jobs growing at the fastest rate in more than THREE DECADES.
            5. Economic growth last quarter hit 4.2 percent.
            6. New unemployment claims recently hit a 49-year low.
            7. Median household income has hit highest level ever recorded.
            8. African-American unemployment has recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.
            9. Hispanic-American unemployment is at the lowest rate ever recorded.
            10. Asian-American unemployment recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.
            11. Women’s unemployment recently reached the lowest rate in 65 years.
            12. Youth unemployment has recently hit the lowest rate in nearly half a century.
            13. Lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for Americans without a high school diploma.
            14. Under my Administration, veterans’ unemployment recently reached its lowest rate in nearly 20 years.
            15. Almost 3.9 million Americans have been lifted off food stamps since the election.
            16. The Pledge to America’s Workers has resulted in employers committing to train more than 4 million Americans. We are committed to VOCATIONAL education.
            17. 95 percent of U.S. manufacturers are optimistic about the future—the highest ever.
            18. Retail sales surged last month, up another 6 percent over last year.
            19. Signed the biggest package of tax cuts and reforms in history. After tax cuts, over $300 billion poured back in to the U.S. in the first quarter alone.
            20. As a result of our tax bill, small businesses will have the lowest top marginal tax rate in more than 80 years.
            21. Helped win U.S. bid for the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles.
            22. Helped win U.S.-Mexico-Canada’s united bid for 2026 World Cup.
            23. Opened ANWR and approved Keystone XL and Dakota Access Pipelines.
            24. Record number of regulations eliminated.
            25. Enacted regulatory relief for community banks and credit unions.
            26. Obamacare individual mandate penalty GONE.
            27. My Administration is providing more affordable healthcare options for Americans through association health plans and short-term duration plans.
            28. Last month, the FDA approved more affordable generic drugs than ever before in history. And thanks to our efforts, many drug companies are freezing or reversing planned price increases.
            29. We reformed the Medicare program to stop hospitals from overcharging low-income seniors on their drugs—saving seniors hundreds of millions of dollars this year alone.
            30. Signed Right-To-Try legislation.
            31. Secured $6 billion in NEW funding to fight the opioid epidemic.
            32. We have reduced high-dose opioid prescriptions by 16 percent during my first year in office.
            33. Signed VA Choice Act and VA Accountability Act, expanded VA telehealth services, walk-in-clinics, and same-day urgent primary and mental health care.
            34. Increased our coal exports by 60 percent; U.S. oil production recently reached all-time high.
            35. United States is a net natural gas exporter for the first time since 1957.
            36. Withdrew the United States from the job-killing Paris Climate Accord.
            37. Cancelled the illegal, anti-coal, so-called Clean Power Plan.
            38. Secured record $700 billion in military funding; $716 billion next year.
            39. NATO allies are spending $69 billion more on defense since 2016.
            40. Process has begun to make the Space Force the 6th branch of the Armed Forces.
            41. Confirmed more circuit court judges than any other new administration.
            42. Confirmed Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch and nominated Judge Brett Kavanaugh.
            43. Withdrew from the horrible, one-sided Iran Deal.
            44. Moved U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem.
            45. Protecting Americans from terrorists with the Travel Ban, upheld by Supreme Court.
            46. Issued Executive Order to keep open Guantanamo Bay.
            47. Concluded a historic U.S.-Mexico Trade Deal to replace NAFTA. And negotiations with Canada are underway as we speak.
            48. Reached a breakthrough agreement with the E.U. to increase U.S. exports.
            49. Imposed tariffs on foreign steel and aluminum to protect our national security.
            50. Imposed tariffs on China in response to China’s forced technology transfer, intellectual property theft, and their chronically abusive trade practices.
            51. Net exports are on track to increase by $59 billion this year.
            52. Improved vetting and screening for refugees, and switched focus to overseas resettlement.
            53. We have begun BUILDING THE WALL. Republicans want STRONG BORDERS and NO CRIME. Democrats want OPEN BORDERS which equals MASSIVE CRIME.
            54. Passing the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA) that will bring relief and business to the American farmer.
            55. Passing 12 weeks of paid family leave for federal workers. An initiative that Ivanka Trump has been advocating for since Day One. And on a personal level, one that NO LESS than 10 career HUD employees thanked me for in private – with some even admitting they may vote for him in 2020.
            56. Reaching an historic trade deal with China that lifts the unfair tariff burden off the American tax-payer that the LAST THREE PRESIDENTS had no problem paying for DECADES.
            57. Getting a Space Force
            58. Requiring Hospitals to publicly disclose the costs charged and paid by ALL insurance companies to ensure transparency and fair competition.
            59. Making animal cruelty a FEDERAL FELONY, praised by the American Humane Society as a bill they’ve been trying to pass for DECADES
            60. Forcing delinquent foreign countries to contribute an additional $530 BILLION to NATO so that Americans are no longer bearing the global burden
            61. Expanding federal civil rights protections against anti-semitism, which was duly praised by the President of the Anti-Defamation League.

            Liked by 1 person

          17. Remember, just seven short months ago when the economy was doing great and unemployment (for everyone) at an all time low, and minority business ownership at an all time high, the left credited Obama and said Trump had nothing to do with it.
            When he got our soldiers out of the ME (combat casualties lowest in decades now) they said it was too little, wasn’t really happening (because military withdrawal and all that kit can’t happen overnight). When ISIS was defeated he was given no credit at all (and “Factchecker” still claims no credit…which is a lie, but the only thing that seems necessary these days to turn a lie into the truth is repeat it enough times).
            No credit.
            Then the Chinese virus hits, people decide to riot after weeks in confinement, Democrats governing these places don’t ask for help…in fact, they claim when Trump does anything it’s a ‘jack booted thug” maneuver and he’s “bringing in the Stormtroopers” like a good Hitler. So of course the deaths and violence are all his fault.
            Good leadership is to be more concerned with the health of its octogenarians than the wellbeing of its children.

            Liked by 2 people

          18. New York doesn’t clean its subways until months after the wu hits….in fact, they consolidate people into fewer units of mass transportation to ensure the occupants are closer together while keeping them dirty. The first two weeks of lockdown, the mayor not only ignores but tells everyone else to ignore the lockdown too.
            Elderly are assigned to nursing homes where the covid spreads like wildfire.
            Trump’s fault. He should’ve played janitor, nurse, social distancing policeman in his free time. Can’t expect the leadership of those places to do anything, or listen to medical staff. We obviously don’t know how germs work. Cleanig and stuff, that’s some sophisticated technology there.

            Liked by 2 people

          19. One at a time folks! I’m retired but I’m not omniscient.

            I’m confused bro. When have you ever been able to refrain from making this “personal”? I guess when you critique my obvious faults and foibles (I have many), you’re just being “objective”? Right . . . .

            Anyway, even in a court of law none of what I wrote would be considered a “personal” attack (although the Court probably wouldn’t tolerate some of the snark that is my attempt to lighten things up). It would just be considered cross examination of the credibility of the witness on the facts and opinions that he testifies about, especially when the witness proclaims his “opinions” (not facts) on “policy” to be based on any credible expertise beyond pure emoting. I’m not a just an anonymous troll that feels free to spout opinions on everything I know nothing about, of course realizing that I can go back and hide under some rock when someone asks me where those opinions come from and hold me accountable for them. I’m not trying to disingenuously claim some credibility on things that I know nothing about. I’m perfectly happy to show you mine when you show me yours.

            Opinions are “personal” or at least they should be to mean anything. Mel, seriously, aren’t your opinions on God and His teachings “personal” and based on long hours of “personal” study, communion, contemplation, prayer and revelation?

            In any event, I have absolutely no animosity toward Mel or you or anyone else here. Apologies if anyone takes umbrage. None is meant. I do love Mel, affectionately, in so far as I know him here, on his blog and through our correspondence. I genuinely admire and learn from his theological teachings (yours too sometimes bro). Really. I thought that I made that clear.

            Like

          20. @tsalmon

            Since I don’t think I am perfect I don’t put it beyond you to find an example of where I have justified my opinion at your expense. That, however, is rare.

            Our opinions belong to us. So we naturally take offense when another disagrees, but that is childish. The facts are what they are. Logic has rules we all need to obey. Ignorance, unless we choose to remain ignorant, is nothing to be ashamed of. Therefore, where appropriately update our opinions with new information and improved logic, we should be pleased. Doesn’t often happen, however. Most of us are too proud.

            So, how have I made it personal. I have told you not to make it personal. When we make it about our self, we cannot be objective.

            Pride was the sin of Adam. Pride is the sin to which we are all heirs. Unless we are humble enough to care more about our neighbors than we care about our pride, we cannot look at political problems objectively. In fact, we will end up promoting our self or cursing whoever annoys us.

            Unfortunately, none of us are as humble as we should be. So, there is a lot of self promoting and blamecasting in politics. When a political party engages almost exclusively in denigrating its opposition instead of promoting its candidates, that is a very bad sign.

            Like

          21. Sorry Liz, my response to you ended up up top. I’m just and old man trying to type in a cell phone you know. I need one of my grandchildren to do this for me.😉

            Liked by 1 person

          22. Tom,

            I agree with much of that. I’m not sure that the objective/subjective boundaries are as clear as you imagine, however, especially when it comes to mere “opinions”. I also note a certain double standard:

            “Unfortunately, none of us are as humble as we should be. So, there is a lot of self promoting and blamecasting in politics. When a political party engages almost exclusively in denigrating its opposition instead of promoting its candidates, that is a very bad sign.“

            Did you even watch the Republican Convention? Actual facts were as scarce as hen’s teeth. Positivity was in short supply and when it happened, it was a mostly nepotistic love fest by people named Trump or their wives, husbands and girlfriends. Plans and policies were as rare as actual medical remedies are at a snake oil medicine show. The majority of the whole thing was just a dark and false “denigration” of Biden.

            So let’s cease with the false equivalencies and holier-than-thou critiques of my supposed lack of humility. We are both a bit of a blowhard if we are honest with ourselves. Let’s quit pretending to be so thin skinned while we aggressively sand down the epidermis of the other guy. As they say, politics ain’t bean bag.

            If you are going to keep telling me that I’m so stupid that I’m brainwashed by the media, then expect me to ask you where you got your degree to have sacralized opinions on everything under the Sun.

            I’m sure Mel realizes this because I’ve seen him in action putting skeptics and atheist trolls in their place: Our “feelings” ultimately belong to each of us and we are really only capable of being hurt by the truth about ourselves – a lesson we should be thankful for when it is given.

            Like I said, when it comes to his theological opinions, Mel is normally much better at this than I am, (but not here for some strange reason – wonder why?). But do you honestly think that you are somehow less insulting here than you claim that I am? 🙁

            I enjoy the banter and I think that you enjoy having a contrarian view in the echo chamber every once in a while. I keep telling you that I mean no personal animosity. I’m usually smiling in complete goodwill the whole time I’m typing these comments on my phone – even right this moment. However, if everyone here is going to get their feelings hurt when their facts and expert opinions are challenged, I can leave. Just say the word. 😇

            Like

          23. @tsalmon

            I hit the sack by 10 PM, and I don’t stay up just listen to political conventions. If they were actually nominating the candidates I would, but that doesn’t happen anymore, unfortunately. I’d say miss the smoke-filled rooms, but the primary system took off before I had much interest in politics.

            So, I have been listening the videos or reading transcripts when I get a chance. Mostly, I just want to verify what I heard about the conventions in the news is accurate.

            I have trouble figuring out how you think a “Make America Great Again” campaign could be negative. When I listened to Trump’s speech, he sounded positive.

            I listened to Trump’s speech and read Biden’s.

            https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/20/politics/biden-dnc-speech-transcript/index.html

            Trump listed specific accomplishments and contrasted his accomplishments with Biden’s. Trump contrasted his plans with Biden’s plans. Biden mostly condemned Trump and spoke a few platitudes (kind of like you). Biden has a long record. He can even claim to have furthered Obama’s agenda during eight years in office. Instead, he blames Trump, including for things like the deaths from COVID-19 and the economic shutdown.

            When we have essentially have just two candidates, how are those candidates going to campaign? In normal times the candidates will point to their record and what they want to accomplish. Then they will contrast their record and agenda with their opponent’s record and agenda. I don’t think the Biden team has much to say about either their record or their accomplishments. What do they have to brag about?

            If you are going to keep telling me that I’m so stupid that I’m brainwashed by the media, then expect me to ask you where you got your degree to have sacralized opinions on everything under the Sun.

            I have not called you stupid or brainwashed. You do repeat the nonsense you hear in the news media, and what you repeat is just trash talk. If I tell you that people in the Obama administration spied on Trump, and show you proof, you just blow it off. That’s a problem. Objectively, that is a problem. What happened during the Obama administration was far worse than anything Nixon had to resign for.

            Do I think of my opinions as sacralized? Do I demand you accept my opinions? No. When I say we have God-given rights, I point to the Bible. I say I believe the Bible, and I believe both you and I have God-given rights, that all human beings were created in the image of God and belong to Him. What you think about that is your problem. I just pray you will resolve it as I did by believing Jesus is the Son of God and that the Bible is His revelation to us.

            The Bible says what it says. Interpret it as you think appropriate. Believe what you wish. According to the Bible, I believe you have that right. If it grates on you that I have no doubt I have interpreted the Bible as objectively as I can, and you have not, that is not my problem. If I believe the Bible and you still think much of it is myth, what else would you expect? Don’t I have the right to believe, or do you deny my right?

            Would it surprise you if I say I think you do deny my right to believe the Bible. Think it through. If the government gives us our rights, then we have no rights. We just have the “right” to do whatever our rulers permit, and that’s an objective fact too.

            Like

          24. I watched almost all of both conventions. I disagree with your characterization of the taxpayer paid and hosted Trumpublican political spectacle though. But that’s another topic we’ve already discussed and disagreed on.

            I “deny” your right to believe your fantasies about the Bible and about an eternal God sanctifying your mere political views in this moment in history? On your blog? How could I get the power to do that? Where have I done that?

            I think that you may be confusing honest disagreement with some kind of forceful coercion, a hardy debate over ambiguous matters with a personal condemnation of your right to have any opinion that you want on everything from Leprechauns to unicorns.

            I’m orthodox Catholic. As you know, we believe in lots of mysteries and paradoxical things that we take on pure faith and grace, so it would be pretty silly of me to try to stop you from doing the same in your own way. I do know the difference between the an act of faith and a smug certainty so I try (probably imperfectly) to be careful not to confuse the two, especially when trying to sanctify my mere political ideology. And I also try to abstain from assuming an infinite God’s endorsement of my mere wants and fears and hates of other people. I don’t THINK God works that way, but I KNOW far less than I THINK I do. 😉

            When we have a Christian communion made up of something like 10,000 raucously disagreeing denominations who argue over what Scripture says about everything from the Sacraments to the political events of the moment to sexual mores, then it makes sense to me to try not to make God say what I simply want Him to say more than I have to, more than it seems morally obvious to most every true and loving Christian. I’m sure that I’m not perfectly consistent at this though.

            But we’ve beaten this poor skinny horse to death many times before brother. I’m not “denying” you anything though. Just a friendly disagreement between brothers and fellow followers of Christ. I’m sure we will have other disagreements and other friendly debates on other things, but the reality is that we all here probably agree on more than we disagree . . . but where’s the fun in talking about that? We come from an argumentative family and after all these years you’re pretty much trip wired to disagree with me even if I say that I like ham sandwiches. I guess that I am guilty of that some too.

            I’ll sign off before Kate murders me in my sleep for spending too much time on the phone. You can have the last word by chastising me some more for being arrogant, bullying and opinionated. Just remember what the pot says to kettle. Is that idiom still politically correct – am I about to be cancelled? Blessings to all here. Good times. 🦄

            Like

          25. @tsalmon

            I could come up with a list of Trump’s accomplishments and agenda items. I could show you the percentage of time Trump actually spent talking about Biden. Waste of time.

            I “deny” your right to believe your fantasies about the Bible and about an eternal God sanctifying your mere political views in this moment in history? On your blog? How could I get the power to do that? Where have I done that?

            You have joined a mob. You are voting for the tyranny of the majority. There is no ambiguity about this. The Liberal Democrats are not even making a secret of this anymore. Yeah! Joe Biden is a “moderate”. 😉😉

            Meanwhile, Democrats have no trouble aligning with Black Lives Matters, persecuting policemen with blatantly false charges of racism, and nodding approving and the Squad’s antisemitic bigotry.

            I don’t have to call Liberal Democrats names to “offend” you. I just have to say the things they do and read their damned platform.

            Like

          26. Mel,

            Just saw your “list of Trump accomplishments”. Kinda done commenting on this thread, but I have two questions for Mel:

            1. Your list is first person in a couple of spots, so did this come straight from Trump, and if not, can you provide the source?

            2. Assuming that this came straight from Trump, his campaign or some other biased source, have you actually fact checked the data against reliable sources? We are in the middle of a deep recession, and some of it seems a bit to good to be true or it’s at least very misleading. I don’t have to tell you that it is your credibility on the line if you purposely republish lies and embellishments as facts. Sorry, I don’t question your personal integrity, but it’s the lawyer in me to assess risk for people that I like.

            Have a nice day!

            Like

          27. Lol. My credibility is on the line? Biased? That’s laughable. You mean like CNN, NYT, and every other mainstream news source that’s been distorting the truth every day? This list is from Trump’s office. But I know for a fact most of them are true, not all of them. You can refute the specifics if you want, but if you’re only going to give me opinions based on emotions, THAT has zero credibility.

            Btw, you can give a list of all Biden’s verified accomplishments if you want.

            Like

          28. @Mel Wild
            @tsalmon

            Did you know that President Donald J. Trump is never ever factchecked?

            I am a news junky too, and Trump has no reason to embellish his accomplishments. His problem is that the Liberal Democrat refuses to impartially report the news.

            Liked by 2 people

          29. Mel,

            Boy you are really into this deep Reverend. I’m so sorry my friend.

            No, I was talking about actual government data like the GAO BLS which for example shows non farm unemployment at a little over 10 percent right now due to massive COVID-19 related job losses. Those unemployment numbers show that it was worse three months ago but there were some job gains as some businesses opened back up last month. However, it seems to have leveled off with the recent resurgence of the Pandemic and business closings in new parts of the country. On the other hand, don’t you think it’s just a little disingenuous for Trump to claim the largest job increase ever when it is just a step in climbing out of perhaps the largest job losses ever?

            Another source is the nonpartisan CBO. Or if you are willing to trust more conservative news media sources, try the WSJ or “The Economist”. I’ve read excellent articles in both those print media sources. You know no credible media source, Left or Right, really lies about things like jobs data because it’s open source government information that everyone relies on.

            I really have to be done with this for a while. Good luck and God bless Mel.

            Like

          30. @tsalmon
            @Mel Wild

            Mel’s list apparently predates the virus. We know there has been an economic shutdown. We know that we are recovering quickly from in spite of the Democrats. We also know that if Joe Biden is elected the economy will stagnate, at best.

            But I do so “love” this line.

            You know no credible media source, Left or Right, really lies about things like jobs data because it’s open source government information that everyone relies on.

            Don’t you know that “credible media” always tells the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. “Credible media”? Don’t you know that “credible media”:
            1. Reported Trump colluded with the Russians and the DNC and the Obama administration truthfully investigated the “scandal”?
            2. Told us that the Democratic Party and Republican Party switched? Republicans are now the racists, and Trump is a white supremacist.
            3. Proclaimed that the George Floyd protests are mostly peaceful, that the police are a bunch of racists and the riots, actively supported by Democrat mayors and governors, are all Trump’s fault?
            4. “Proved” that the USA is handling the COVID-19 pandemic more incompetently than any other country, and it is all Trump’s fault?
            5. Explained that voter fraud is a myth except when Republicans and Trump try to steal elections?
            6. And so forth….

            Frankly, there is no such thing as a nonpartisan source, and there never has been. Yet you call what Conservatives believe fantasies and then you demand we believe in your nonpartisan sources?😣

            Do you actually believe in nonpartisan sources? Of course, you don’t. You are not that stupid. You just trash talk. Do you say things for effect BECAUSE you know the facts — which are objective — are not on you side? I don’t understand is your motive. At what point will you stop taking your “credible media” seriously? Why would you want to vote for deceitful, incompetent, crooks? Why would you pretend blithering nonsense is true? I wonder. Read =>
            https://citizentom.com/2008/07/07/i-stand-corrected/

            There is no question that Biden took bribes from foreigners. Harris has no trouble lying. She got up on the stage, accused Biden of racism, and he could not even figure out how to defend himself. He isn’t that fast on his feet — not as glib — anymore. Latter, after she became Biden’s VP pick, Harris was asked why she accused Biden of racism. The best she could do is nervously laugh and say “it was just a debate.” You are voting for dishonest people who talk trash, and you are pretending that is virtuous? We are bad because we vote for Trump?

            Few have ever claimed Trump is a model citizen. We just want someone who does a good job instead of robbing and cheating us. Trump has done a decent job. If we are happy settle for that instead of being plagued by power mad, busybody, lying nitwits, where is the sin?

            Supposedly, competence and the truth is important to you, but it doesn’t seem to be the least bit important to the people you vote for. Where is the virtue in supporting those people?

            Like

          31. @ tsalmon

            So, you’re only willing to look at the Pandemic months to judge Trump’s economic performance? Meanwhile, Biden was hiding in his basement the whole time, which is where we would’ve found him if he were president right now. Yeah, that’s a fair assessment of the last four years.

            Liked by 1 person

          32. @tsalmon
            @melwild
            The list looks like a copy of some incarnation of
            https://www.whitehouse.gov/trump-administration-accomplishments/

            You can forget the claims on economic growth and job numbers, as Covid-19 has thrown a monkey-wrench into the gears, as in any other country. As for outdated: manufacturing jobs went up from January 2017 to January 2019 by about 475,000 jobs, stagnated at that level unitl March 2020 and is now down by about 275,000 jobs compared to 2017, but rising again.
            https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES3000000001
            In any case, yes, there was job growth in manufacturing until the beginning of 2019, followed by stagnation. Lesson to be learned: Be wary of anyone, government, opposition, pseudonymous voices on the internet, who try to catch a complex development into a single number.

            Also remember, if you lose 80%, gain 100% and then 100% again, you are still down by 20% compared to from where you started.

            Like

          33. @marmoewp

            Mel’s list apparently predates the virus. We know there has been an economic shutdown. We know that we are recovering quickly from in spite of the Democrats. We also know that if Joe Biden is elected the economy will stagnate, at best.

            We know why manufacturing jobs were coming back to the USA. Trump was playing hardball with the Chinese, and Congress lowered the Corporate taxes. Now that the economic shutdown is fading the boom is coming back. Silly to pretend otherwise. Dumb to pretend voting for Democrats would work better.

            Liked by 1 person

          34. We know why manufacturing jobs were coming back to the USA. Trump was playing hardball with the Chinese, and Congress lowered the Corporate taxes. Now that the economic shutdown is fading the boom is coming back. Silly to pretend otherwise. Dumb to pretend voting for Democrats would work better.

            Agreed x100.

            This thread is so long it is difficult to follow. From my perspective:
            I don’t personally like the idea of making the white house front lawn a political staging ground.
            However….isn’t that what happens when protestors gather?
            And just a few weeks ago, after the white house chapel was burned by rioters “protesting”, liberal folks were screaming security didn’t have the right to protect the president walking on that lawn. Folks don’t seem to object to such speech when their own politics are represented. Even if it’s threatening to the elected leader of our country.
            Next: Incumbants always have an advantage.
            If tax dollars are really the concern, this saved a lot of money.
            Airlift and all the kit necessary to move the president to another location, for this event, would be vastly more expensive. Every time the president goes anywhere it is a major deal. This would be a bigger deal than usual with the type of security needed for an event like that, at a time like this.

            Liked by 1 person

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Rudy u Martinka

What the world needs now in addition to love is wisdom. We are the masters of our own disasters.

Theo-Logis

Supplying the Light of Love

The Recovering Legalist

Living a Life of Grace

Write Side of the Road

writing my way through motherhood

Freedom Through Empowerment

Taking ownership of your life brings power to make needed changes. True freedom begins with reliance on God to guide this process and provide what you need.

Amatopia

Author Alexander Hellene - Pulp with Style

John Branyan

the funny thing about the truth

Victory Girls Blog

Welcome to Conservative commentary and Christian prayers from Gainesville, Virginia. That's OUTSIDE the Beltway.

D. Patrick Collins

liberating christian thought

Conservative Government

Welcome to Conservative commentary and Christian prayers from Gainesville, Virginia. That's OUTSIDE the Beltway.

The Night Wind

Welcome to Conservative commentary and Christian prayers from Gainesville, Virginia. That's OUTSIDE the Beltway.

In Saner Thought

"It is the duty of every man, as far as his ability extends, to detect and expose delusion and error"..Thomas Paine

SGM

Faithful servants never retire. You can retire from your career, but you will never retire from serving God. – Rick Warren

christeeleisonblog.wordpress.com/

“The harvest is abundant but the laborers are few" Luke 10:2

All Along the Watchtower

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you ... John 13:34

Always On Watch: Semper Vigilans

Welcome to Conservative commentary and Christian prayers from Gainesville, Virginia. That's OUTSIDE the Beltway.

Luis C. Almeida, Ph. D.

College Professor

praythroughhistory

Heal the past. Free the present. Bless the future.

Lillie-Put

The place where you can find out what Lillie thinks

He Hath Said

is the source of all wisdom, and the fountain of all comfort; let it dwell in you richly, as a well of living water, springing up unto everlasting life

quotes and notes and opinions

from a Biblical perspective

partneringwitheagles

WHENEVER ANY FORM OF GOVERNMENT BECOMES DESTRUCTIVE OF THESE ENDS (LIFE,LIBERTY,AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS) IT IS THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO ALTER OR ABOLISH IT, AND TO INSTITUTE A NEW GOVERNMENT...

nebraskaenergyobserver

The view from the Anglosphere

bluebird of bitterness

The opinions expressed are those of the author. You go get your own opinions.

Pacific Paratrooper

This WordPress.com site is Pacific War era information

THE RIVER WALK

Daily Thoughts and Meditations as we journey together with our Lord.

atimetoshare.me

My Walk, His Way - daily inspiration

Truth in Palmyra

By Wally Fry

Kingdom Pastor

Living Freely In God's Kingdom

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