I had a bit of “fun” last evening. I listened to the following video.
The president gets on the stage and gives his speech about 30 minutes into the video (transcript here (whitehouse.gov)). So, you can advance the video and skip the rest, but I think the rest is worth seeing too. The governor of South Dakota, Kristi Noem, is an attractive lady with a sharp mind. I would not be surprised to see her on a presidential ticket in another four years.
What was Trumps speech about? Well, that seems to depend upon who we ask.
Here are some reviews by the Liberal Democrat news media.
- The 28 most outrageous lines from Donald Trump’s Mount Rushmore speech (cnn.com)
- At Mt. Rushmore and the White House, Trump Updates ‘American Carnage’ Message for 2020 (nytimes.com)
- Trump’s Mount Rushmore speech showed why our battle over history is so fraught (washingtonpost.com)
Here are some reviews of the Liberal Democrat news media.
- Brit Hume: Why biased coverage of Trump’s Mount Rushmore speech ‘could be a turning point’ (foxnews.com)
- Patriotism Is Becoming ‘White Supremacy’ (nationalreview.com)
If you want to know what the president said, I recommend listening to the president or reading his speech. I will just observe that Trump spent a large percentage of his speech describing what the four presidents memorialized at Mount Rushmore accomplished.
Does the news media lie to us? Do even our leaders sometimes lie to us? Yes. FARRELL: Benghazi Terror Attacks Led To Crossfire Hurricane (dailycaller.com) recalls an example of a lie that everyone eventually saw through, at least everyone who was willing to see the truth. Since then we have had several years of Russia! Russia! Russia! It is amazing that anyone still believes Liberal Democrat politicians or their news media allies, but some people do.
Citizen Tom 
I will continue to state the truth – the media is owned by 6 billionaires, all except one are democrat or liberal democrat. Of course the news is biased. And people don’t want to do their own research which is paramount today (if you want to know the real story).
@Lisa V
Kind of wonder why there are so few Conservatives who are billionaires. Must not be in their business interests, crony capitalism
I thought his speeches (Friday and Saturday nights) were tremendous—and I’ve been listening to presidential speeches for a long time—
I’ve been to Mt. Rushmore.
Before my visit, I thought it most likely a kitschy sort of place..hokey.
But when we visited, I was in awe.
I felt tear well up in my eyes.
I felt a tremendous sense of humility and joy being an American.
@Julie
Never seen Mount Rushmore, but what I have read about the place makes me wish I had. Maybe some day.
Out of all the national parks— this one was so special— one of the last remaining carvers was there in the gift shop signing a book about his experience as a young man working on the carving— it’s really pretty humbling
Been there. Beautiful area, except for the mountain that was defaced by being faced. We were passing by on our way to the Badlands and Kate wanted to see it. I was underwhelmed by the idolatry of it all. The history of the men (for good and for bad) is their actual monument for those Americans who actually want to learn it all. This is just an extravagant waste of what God sculpted much more perfectly without our graffiti.
@tsalmon
Let’s carry your philosophy to its logical conclusion. Why don’t we just remove people from the face of the earth?
Or we could take yours to it’s logical conclusion: Let’s deface the entire surface of the Earth into an enormous likeness of your dear leader and god, Donald Trump. 🙂
@tsalmon
Well, you are willing to pay the taxes.
Ha, ha, ha! Good one! Where have you been hiding that sense of humor?
It strikes me that the corrupt media are, at this point trying to keep those on the verge of being cured of the plague of TDS recovering that elusive quality referred to as common sense-They’re not eroding our president’s base of support. Haters gonna Hate!
@jeffw5382
When the news media behaves like this, we just need to point it out with pity. These are our fellow countrymen, and they and those who have supported them will have to live with what they have done.
As long as you think that way about yourselves when history writes about the crimes of Orange Boy. I hear it.. “What crimes???” Not all “crimes” need be illegal.. but that time is coming. Have faith.
@Doug
Because I have faith in God, not man, I don’t see any reason to have faith that Trump is guilty of doing something wrong.
Not all “crimes” need be illegal
Yes, that is actually the definition of crime. Something illegal.
but that time is coming.
When non-illegal activities become crimes ex post facto?
I believe you. That’s…really something extraordinary to wish for.
…and by extraordinary I mean deeply, deeply disturbing.
No need to parse for effect. You know what I mean.
Tom, I listen to the speech and agree how the media totally distorted his message.
Sad.
Regards and goodwill blogging.
I thought the media was spot on. I mean.. what president in all our lifetimes has ever given a speech like that during a period as conflicted as this…. with Americans dying? Although I suspect that’s the whole point in why you all like the guy… he’s not like the others.
Doug, you stated “……….given a speech like that during a period as conflicted as this….”
All he did is tell the truth that a ancharic group is tearing down statures.
Sometimes it hurts to have to listen to the truth,
Listening to telling someone the truth in my opinion seems to be the problem in our Nation.
Regards and goodwill blogging.
No, Rudy, the problem is truth doesn’t seem to matter… it’s irrelevant, easy to manipulate, and a complete victim to gaslighting. Everyone speaks the truth.. and those that do are lying. Those that lie, don’t care… and those that care can’t find the truth because it’s being blocked out by all the noise proclaiming truth. You all should remember Mr. T’s words from his “sermon on the mount”…. because by time the election has settled upon us… we are gonna be far worse off than we are now.
@Doug
And that the truth? Why? I suppose it doesn’t matter.
Doug, when say silly stuff like that, do you expect anyone except a Liberal Democrat to believe you?
Doug,
Lets keep it simple. The simple truth is people are disobeying the law and destroying property because they believe in anarchy instead of laws and debate.
If you can prove to me that what they are doing is lawful, I am interested in hearing your explanation.
Alll Trump did is tell the truth and the truth is just what it is, tearing down statues is unlawful anarchy.
Regards and goodwill blogging.
While you and other Conservative relish all this tough talk-kick-their- ass rhetoric…. there was not one single bit of hope, unification to meet the pandemic (which he totally ignores and says it will just go away), absolutely no empathy or compassion for the lives lost and families in mourning, none whatsoever about our collective reconciling of racial tensions…. coming to grips with our national past… all the entire speech was about was stoking fear that the Left and their anarchist bunch was a threat.. and the worst part of it all…. blaming a segment of the American population.. the Left… for hating America…. thus trying to create further tension. No Rudy.. he’s a poor excuse for a president.. and he’s on his way out… and it’s gonna take the deaths of 200,00 Americans to do it. The Fourth is a day we celebrate independence, not incite civil discord between ourselves. And my most appalling gripe.. the Conservatives incessant need to use the American flag as a prop.. to hold to the contrived idea that only they have ownership of patriotism.
Doug,
You said “The Fourth is a day we celebrate independence, not incite civil discord between ourselves. “
The truth is The Fourth is to celebrate independence.
Do you really believe that people are really independent if they are afraid their cities are being destroyed by anarchy and the President should not remind Americans of the heroes who sacrificed to obtain independence on the Fourth of July so as not to hurt the feelings of anarchists?
Please, on Covid=19 don’t blame Trump. Blame the politicians who sat idly by and allowed 90 percent of USA PPE equipment to be resourced to China. If we had the N95 masks available in the USA, and since they protect user’s 95 percent from being infected, there could have been on 5 percent of the covid statistics reported in the USA.
Todays news reports the shortage of PPE equipment still persists and is growing.
Regards and goodwill blogging.
@Doug
What bothers me are politicians who run from the flag, the Bible, the Constitution and our country’s heritage.
Name one of any consequence that would give you any concern.
@Doug
The flag symbolizes our nation’s unity. Civil wars are messy.
The Bible explains the Judeo-Christian values the founders used to defined the laws of our nation, like outlawing the slave trade.
The Constitution protects our rights and keeps the ambitions of our leaders in check.
Our heritage is our history. It is not the job of our leaders to bury it or rewrite it.
Uh.. you said “politicians”, so I was looking for a name of one that “bothers you”.
@Doug
You really have to ask? You figure it out. Start at this point.We have bunches of politicians who cannot bring themselves to condemn Black Lives Matters and Antifa, fascist organizations. Yet they are quite willing to accuse Trump of supporting white supremacists when he has done the opposite.
Funny how given the current state of affairs how little that even matters. For the moment the urban demonstrations have subsided… Antifa never was a coherent threat to anyone given it has no organization and has been hardly effective at anything… fascist organizations??
Trump being (or not) a white supremacist.. does that even matter anymore?
You all wanted to open up America… and this is what we got. Now he wants schools open.
America is being attacked on two fronts… Trump and the virus.
We got 4 months until the election and in “Trump time” anything can and will happen nationally… and for any reason. Are you even ready for that, Tom? Are you truly sitting there complacent and happy as a lark, that this is the America you want?
I dunno…. hunkering down seems to make a bit of sense because no one is on anyone’s side… truly and literally. Seems to me all that’s missing is the desperation.
@Doug
All you can think about is Trump, and you hate and fear Trump so much you cannot think him properly.
The death rate from the virus is down. The young people are getting the virus, but people our age and above are avoiding by hunkering down. So not many people are dying. The hospitals are mostly full of people who delayed procedures.
I see you have that “science” all figured out. Get that from Tucker Carlson?
@Doug
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/6/coronavirus-death-rate-drops-even-cases-spike/
The American Academy of Pediatrics has recommended sending children back to school.
Yeah.. kinda scary huh. The re-opening of America fiasco we are paying for.. now we through kids into the breach as an experiment?
@Doug
Every day is an experiment.
Ha. Profound about life in general.. although I know you are referring to every day of the virus. Wanna be a guinea pig?
@Doug
In a free country, we are each our own guinea pig.
Not sure the CDC is worth a damn anymore given Trump tainted the place. But the scientists are suggesting not to be seduced by current low deaths. But even worse… the recovery is bad in far more cases than deaths… long sickness times.. and debilitating after-effects.
@Doug
.In a free country, we can make our own decisions.
It was a great speech! I about fell over when I read the NY Times. What in the world were they listening to??!
I had a chuckle, “dark and divisive” is a false accusation I often slam into. Nothing could be farther from the truth, but it was fascinating seeing that phrase thrown at the president, too. A few days before the speech a woman had written a blog post in which she complained that whenever she sets healthy boundaries or says “no,” people call her “dark and divisive.” So I’m thinking maybe we need a “dark and divisive” club. We’ll get some tee shirts made. 🙂
@insanitybytes22
Never did get my deplorables t-shirt. Maybe a “dark and divisive” t-shirt”.😀
Hoo.. boy. I guess that illustrates how far we gotta go to get outta this mess.
I’d be a bit aware of the response you might get using the word “dark” these days. “Dark & Divisive” could easily be misinterpreted and backfire on you.
@Doug
If that is where your mind is at, who is obsessed with race?
I’ve never accused anyone of being racist.. not even Mr. T… in spite of his lack of effort to dodge the accusation from others. I’m getting sick of the political correctness of late so I am learning how to spot it now.
I shall refrain from laughing at how silly that is. 😊
Where in all this reporting of his Rushmore speech are there lies? I’m talking about either side of the reporting. All I see is reporting two separate interpretive opinions.
@Doug
Did Trump support racism in his speech => https://apnews.com/e4725ee4f6c777273a4b5dc83ab57823?
Did Trump exploit racial and social divisions => https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-mount-rushmore-fireworks/2020/07/03/af2e84f6-bd25-11ea-bdaf-a129f921026f_story.html
Is Trump dragging America backward => https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/04/politics/donald-trump-mount-rushmore-culture-wars-july-4th/index.html
These are not just differing opinions. We put our opinions in the editorial pages. These are news media organizations launching smears against a political opponent.
I’m a big boy.. you are a big boy… we saw the entire speech… and no one needs to convince me of what I heard is exactly (and more) that your alleged “smear” links pointed out. Editorial page? You really need to watch some TV media.
You also might want to read his niece’s upcoming book as she completely echos the reasons I gave on my blog that he was/is not fit for the job… and I am no professional doctor like she is. My being right or wrong is irrelevant to the fact that if I saw it.. why didn’t you? But, alas, the diversity of man.
@Doug
You asked a question. I answered your question, big boy. 🙄
and I am no professional doctor like she is
You could be. She didn’t go to medical school, it’s pretty easy these days to get a phd in psychology. Do it online and call yourself a doctor too.
Med school is not a requirement for psychology. I realize you are trying dis her credibility because you love to enable her uncle… but regardless how “easy” it is… she is what she is as a professional.
@Doug
A professional foists a psychoanalysis upon her unwilling uncle and writes a book about it. 🤣🙄😏🤔
Your point?
I’ve always said psychology is a weird profession (more crazies in that career field than any other, unsurprisingly). I’ve also always maintained that advanced are becoming worthless, particularly in the soft science and liberal arts fields.
You don’t seem to give me a special level of credibility (I have and advanced degree). If I went to school a couple more years would that change?
I could point you to people with lots of doctorates who agree with me.
My sister in law has a doctorate in history. Our oldest son knew more history than she when he was eight years old. No one needs thesis number 500 on some odd French tapestry.
In fact, calling herself a doctor is a red flag for me.
But maybe she doesn’t do this on the day to day.
You’d have to excuse me.. when you said “I have and advanced degree.” I had to chuckle a bit.. but I accepted the typo for what it was as I’ve done it often myself.
I actually have to believe you in some of that. When I was studying for my masters in business I was so ticked off that I was learning absolutely nothing that I didn’t already know.. why did I have to pay this much money just to prove I can do a thesis that was more concerned about margins and footnotes than content.
Anyway… what are your degrees in?
Strangely, I posted on the subject of psychiatry just today.
Soft science admits falling for bullcrap and/or making it up themselves to support their preferred narrative Example #827165095
BTW, YOU brought it up as though it imparted her with some special level of credibility. I wouldn’t have brought it up otherwise.
In the psyche disciplines, especially psychology, one need not have the “patient” laying on the couch in front of them to venture a “tentative” synopsis of behaviors.
This is generally overlooked by visitors because it’s up in the menu section… Trump’s niece just echos many others, hence there’s some level of credibility simply from the wide range of opinions being uniform in their conclusions…
https://findingpoliticalsanity.com/why-i-dislike-this-guy-as-my-president-2/
@Doug
I think you are just believing what you wish to believe. The lady who wrote that book probably has more mental problems than Donald Trump.
Judging from what I’ve seen with the family at-large so far… they got a bad gene being replicated that goes right to the brain right down the family tree. So you might be correct in her case as well.
@Doug
I think you have a log in your eye. Don’t feel bad about it. It is a common problem, one we all have to deal with from time to time. Still, if you remove it, you will probably see better.
@Doug
https://videos.utahgunexchange.com/watch/they-tried-to-warn-us-lost-video-from-1984-360p-mp4_4ICAgonnOwK3tSn.html
@Doug
Don’t know if you will watch the video, but keep one thing in mind. Even if what is happening in our educational system is not a commie plot, parents do not have control over what their children learn. In fact, people their parents did not choose are teach children beliefs contrary to the belief of their parents.
I realize that a revolution in education is your quest… but shouldn’t that be a grass roots effort given you want the federal government out of the idea? You keep sounding off that parents know how to teach their kids what they want them to know… but I have no idea how that is even realistic. All my life I have readily observed incompetent parents across the human spectrum… and now that I work at a county CPS office it’s even more apparent the tragedies of faulty parenting passing through the system. This all gets worse as the population grows… and as life stresses become more apparent.. as right now across the nation.
I have no idea how you can presume to think that a uniform level of education can be administered by parents alone to their individual kids.
That video… I know is fodder against Leftists, but a Right and a Left pretty much exists in all governments, albeit not as pronounced in dictatorships. To presume one or the other should be “eliminated” is pure fallacy because it’s a natural human ideological perception to side one way or the other… or more realistically, if taken issue by issue and not assigned to an ideology, people will be for or against on practical need regardless of ideology interpretation of a specific issue. Even from that Ex-Russian’s perspective… while he’s illustrating the KGB relishing in some stage of Western/American passing into a decadence, just as feasible, the KGB is simply applying their own version of “whatever” to suggest their mission was being accomplished.. when in fact it’s just some people trying to look good with their bosses by using some variant of intellectual gibberish… which the Russians are very good at (for some reason oppressed Russian authors seem to think they have all the governmental solutions). I’m just saying… what the Russians/Soviets we saying is occurring here in the States is also happening to some measure in their country as a matter of political and cultural revolution.
When I was studying for my masters in business I was so ticked off that I was learning absolutely nothing that I didn’t already know.. why did I have to pay this much money just to prove I can do a thesis that was more concerned about margins and footnotes than content.
It is really a racket and getting worse.
That doesn’t include just advanced degrees, but also certifications and so forth.
What used to be on the job training now often requires some certification that doesn’t even prepare one much for training.
I’ll never forget a CNA (nursing aid) I worked with a few years back.
She was from Haiti who proudly told me she finished the certification program to be a phlebotomist. Phlebotomists make less than CNAs in general, though it is a good skill to have. I got that skill working at the hospital (in the lab) and they paid me. I asked how much it cost her and I can’t remember now but it was well over a thousand dollars.
This is a woman who took the bus about an hour each way and worked 16 hour shifts for about eight dollars an hour. I asked her how many sticks she had done on a real person and she told me: none. So that wasn’t even really training. It was just paying so she could apply for a low paying job where they would then train her.
I could go on and on….
Some hospitals are starting to require advanced degrees for RNs.
On the plus side, they’ll pay for them (that’s how I got mine in nursing education).
On the negative it’s hard for a lot of older nurses. When I was in nursing school we lost our best lab instructor for this reason. She was probably in her seventies and had decades of valuable experience. Much more valuable than what the younger advanced degreed folks were bringing.
It’s time consuming for any busy working person (also a problem in the military with the degree requirements…which go back and forth, when my spouse got his MBA which was a requirement for promotion to Lt Col at the time, he was also getting his war college course, another advanced degree…so he could go to the real war college and get another advanced degree in the same thing he just got the degree in via correspondence).
Anyway… what are your degrees in?
nursing education, and three BS degrees in order last to first: nursing, medical technology, chemistry.
Bachelors in applied behavioral sciences and masters in management and the development of human resources.
Interesting assortment you have. Besides nursing.. what did you do with the chem degree?
College is way over rated.. in some disciplines.
Besides nursing.. what did you do with the chem degree?
I got my meal ticket! (met my spouse in physics class) 😆
I taught a little (middle school science), they emergency certified me (had a math minor…or enough credit hours to qualify for a minor also, which gave me an in)
Gave me a great background for the second degree so I could work in a medical lab pretty quickly.
(sorry for being off topic, citizen tom, I’ll stop there)
Nothing wrong with sharing a bit of background… pay no attention to Tom.
I picked up some nursing tidbits by osmosis.. my ex was an LPN in the pre-CNA years of the 70’s and 80″s. I know enough nursing to infect more people than Covid.
Well.. we now know how smart the other is.
@Doug
I don’t think degrees tell you how smart someone is. What degrees tend to indicate is what people are interested in and their perseverance in getting a degree.
Or some collect degrees because of an affinity for academia, which generally fall to the non-technical/science disciplines. In the end it’s really all about success, or power, is less about WHAT you know and far more about how to effectively apply the knowledge you DO have.
@Doug
I expect the word you are searching for is wisdom. Wisdom is required to properly define success. Wisdom tells us there is a vast difference between the attainment of success and the attainment of power.
Wisdom is knowing how /when to apply a level of morality to exercise the knowledge you have. Wisdom, sadly, is not required to attain power.. or even success.
@Doug
Wisdom is not required to obtain, power, wealth, fame, pleasure,…, but wisdom is required to obtain success. Power, wealth, fame, pleasure, and so forth does not bring happiness, especially in the life to come. What does bring happiness? Virtuous behavior. When we do good rather than evil, that brings happiness, and without happiness, what good is success?
Does virtuous behavior necessarily eliminate suffering, pain, want, and so forth? No. Sometimes virtuous behavior requires us to experience suffering, pain, want, and so forth, but it beats the alternative.
Happiness is an entirely different medium. One can have all the virtues and elements of success and even power.. and not be happy. You can cite that happiness exists spiritually in the hereafter… but in reality happiness is never a guarantee in life as it is entirely a mental state of consciousness in accepting, or not, our feelings about our personal existence in general… id, ego, super-ego combination, or, if you prefer, our relative position within Maslow’s pyramid of needs beyond just physical survival.
@Doug
If someone is not happy, are they successful?
The answer to that is by the what/who/how that determines the measure of success… unless it’s purely personally defined. Then one can also question.. is my current success the success I was looking for, and am I happy with it? The chances are generally presumed greater for happiness if success was a goal.. hence arriving to that goal brings certainly satisfaction, self-confidence, etc. and the presumption of happiness. Then again.. the happiness might have been greater in the road traveled toward that success than achieving success… the end of the road… itself.
@Doug
That’s an awful amount of dodging and weaving. Why didn’t you just say “no”? If someone is evil in word in deed, do you really believe they can be happy?
Sorry.. didn’t mean to exceed your five minute time limit, Congressman. To answer your last question…..
“If someone is evil in word in deed, do you really believe they can be happy?”
Yes.
@Doug
How long does that sort of happiness last?
I guess that would depend on the individual, unexpected changes in attitude, or it might just last as long as the individual. I know you wanna bring the Bible into this as much as I wanna bring Trump into this. Not sure why your question was important.
@Doug
You brought the Bible into it.
Aristotle equated the pursuit of happiness in this life with the pursuit of virtue.The Bible says we will be blessed if we do the right thing in this life, but it points us to the next life.
Christians base their happiness — their joy in all things — on their faith in the promises of God. Aristotle focused on happiness in this life, and he observed we cannot be happy in this life unless we seek virtue.
We cannot take pleasure in each other unless we love each other; we can only take pleasure from each other.
All that surely has its base of truth, but happiness is a state of mind, not a state of being.. although one can incorporate their interpretation of happiness to support their state of being. Happiness is subjective to the person and does not require virtue. Since John and myself had a brief exchange elsewhere in here about Hitler… there’s a perfect example that he was likely happy reaching his goal as Fuehrer but we can all agree his virtue was greatly in question.
@Doug
I think you are confusing what some people think will make them happy with what actually makes us happy. Happiness resides in the knowledge of being blessed. A child may think a toy will make him happy, but he soon grows bored with it.
Hitler treated Germany as his toy. He soon grew bored with it. So, he tried to.conquer the world. We may need some things, but thing don’t make us happy. So, I doubt Hitler was ever happy because of the power he had. In fact, I think he became a very fearful man.
I don’t deny the spiritual side.. but happiness one way or the other is still a state of mind.. and it’s entirely in the judgment of the individual. You might observe I am happy or not by my actions, etc. But you can never be sure what I feel inside… unless there is maybe a relationship on some level of intimacy in the knowledge of another, either by that afforded by friendship or love..
@Doug
Happiness is not a state of mind. It is a spiritual condition. Does it have something to do with judgement? Yes. That’s why wisdom is involved.
C. S. Lewis, in his book, Mere Christianity, discusses something he calls the moral law. We each know innately when we do something wrong. That is, we have a moral law written upon our hearts.
Do we have perfect knowledge of right and wrong? No. Do we have cultural teachings that override the moral law? Yes. Nevertheless, when treat another person in a way we would not want to be treated, our conscience complains, and we are filled with guilt.
We can in time harden our consciences. We can treat outsiders as “not people”. We can do all kinds of evil by rationalizing our sins against others, and people have done that for time immemorial, but that never brings happiness. It just brings one sort of rat race or another.
This moral law, which we each have to live with whether we accept it or not, determines our happiness to the extent we have any control over it.
Once we learn to do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing, not because of what others think, we can be content with ourselves. Is there more than contentment? Yes, but even happy people have to go through good times and bad. The difference is someone whose conscience is in a good state can remain content even in suffering. That is something the Apostle Paul accomplished.
I can’t argue with the spiritualistic of it all… and in that you are way ahead of me.
@Doug
Who said you have to argue? The point is that Aristotle, a Pagan, knew that to be happy we must seek or pursue virtue.
What is the right way to seek or pursue virtue (or happiness). We have the First Amendment because different people have their own ideas.
Then who judges virtue.. self or others.. in order for the self to be happy?
@Doug
Well, in many societies the government judges the virtue of the people. Because it becomes the guardian of public morality, having this power helps to legitimize a regime. For example, Communist China, an Atheist state, tries to regulate against other beliefs and uphold Atheism as sane and rational while it murders dissenters.
In our country we have freedom of religion, but the government still makes laws. Laws of necessity, because they regulate behavior, should, if they are moral, require us to be somewhat virtuous. For example, it requires at least some virtue to refrain from murder, stealing, and bearing false witness. However, we do not formally base our laws upon any particular religious system. Instead, we refer to shared values, and that works fairly well so long as we have shared values, and we keep our government small.
Otherwise, the founders believed that each of us should decide for him or herself who judges what is virtuous. That is, we should each choose for our self what we believe about God. For right or wrong, we will each will bear the consequences of our choice, and it does not seem anyone truly has the power to choose for another.
Sorry, one more: College is way over rated.. in some disciplines.
Agreed. My last wasn’t particularly useful. If I’d gone to nurse anesthetist school or gone through a nurse practitioner program that would’ve been an excellent background to have. But we moved too often and it wasn’t practical.
I enjoyed the parts of this conversation where y’all talked about most shrinks becoming shrinks to understand their own insanity. This may be true, and if it is true, that might also mean that the schoolyard truism, “it takes one to know one”, may make them excellent shrinks. Also, if this is true, that the most crazy become shrinks, then one wonders if the same is true about the most unhappy people seeking to become in one way or another experts in the field of happiness. Just a thought.
I think Tom may be on to something when he says virtue has something to do with happiness, but I think way too many people (especially religious people) confuse the selfless practice of virtue with the self centered art of moralizing, something that doesn’t seem to make it’s prophets happy at all, and also tends to make everyone else at the receiving end of said happiness sharing, well, miserable
I think Tom is also on to something when he points out the paradox that happiness requires some suffering. But not just any kind of suffering, suffering for and with others. This weirdly appears to make personal happiness a very collective dynamic. Suffering opens up a bleeding heart, and that open heart seems to fill with the a fullness of joy.
I think Doug is on to something when he says that happiness, in some mysterious way, is a spiritual (even a mystical) subjective experience. I can only speak for my own life, but I never seem to have found happiness when I have sought it in one form or another with the most ambition. Instead, the greatest moments personal happiness that I have known in this life I didn’t find – I sat very still, grateful to be in that moment in that company of companions, and happiness simply found me. Odd how that sort of wisdom works.
Or maybe I’m just a happy fool. 😉
@tsalmon
I don’t think you read what you are commenting upon very carefully, but it was a long thread.
With respect to the pursuit of happiness, the primary difference between us is that I think the pursuit of happiness is a God-given right. Whereas you have said that government gives us our rights. That means government defines our rights.
Can you imagine happiness as a right that government gives us? That would be a novel worthy of George Orwell.
Does God give us rights? Same old answer: I don’t know. God didn’t tell me. If you think He told you, then I believe you may be confusing God with John Locke or Thomas Jefferson.
I do know that, whether God gives us such things or not, they don’t seem to exist as a practical matter unless a government of some sort defines them, arbitrates them and enforces them. You still have no answer for that, do you?
Regardless, if God actually were handing out rights (rather than responsibilities) that He does not bother to define or enforce in this life, then it is fitting that in the case of happiness God not only doesn’t clearly define, arbitrate or enforce any particular right itself, but you apparently believe that God grants us only the hope “to pursuit” of something. In this case, God is imagined as not granting us a substantive thing, like the right to a full belly or even the right to go hungry (which makes sense because we were actually born hungry), but only the right to strive, to seek, to actively desire food. In grammatical terms, God may or may not give us the subject or the object of our desires, but God apparently does grant us a boundless aspiration, an infinitive directed toward an indefinite horizon that always must recede in the mere act of approaching it.
To pursue something is not to have that thing, is it? It’s kinda like me claiming to gift you the deed to land that I actually expect you to endlessly bargain with me for and at a price I won’t tell you, and you will know only when you’ve quit trying to pay it.
Maybe God spoke to us THROUGH John Locke and Thomas Jefferson.
Seems to be way too much attention being given to what or what not is an unalienable/inalienable right and who or what human or deity declares it so. One human dictating to another human is part of being human. Hence humans set the rules to govern (or not) each other. Seems to me that once you leave the womb the only “right” anyone has, bequeathed by nature or God, is to take consecutive breaths to stay alive… and even that is not by personal choice but governed by instinct.
@tsalmon
Is freedom of religion in the Bible? Well, it is not stated in a straightforward fashion, but it is not hidden. Here is a article. => https://www.gotquestions.org/freedom-of-religion.html
What is the crux of the argument? It is wrong for one of us to impose our beliefs on another because each of us belongs to God, and we are His servants.
It is funny how you cannot deal with simple and concrete ideas. Yet you piloted airplanes. Maybe if you considered the Bible the flight manual for piloting our lives.
Think!
It is wrong for one of us to enslave another because each of us belongs to God, and we are His servants.
It is wrong for us to take anothers life because each of us belongs to God, and we are His servants.
It is wrong for us to take anothers property because each of us belongs to God, and we are His servants.
Does God give us responsibilities? Yes. He requires us to love Him and and each other, not to boss each other about. He requires us to share the Gospel, not to make other people believe it.
I am guessing God was his co-pilot. 🙂
@Doug
Anyone who thinks God is their co-pilot doesn’t understand where we stand in relation to God.
=>https://www.ryanhart.org/footprints-in-the-sand/
Doug,
You mean the inalienable, divinely ordained right only to the “pursuit” of self respiration . . . at least until some sadistic cop (or President) stifles that pursuit in a sick perversion of LAW AND ORDER.
Very true.. or an uncontrollable virus pandemic, which in fact does rob one of adequate respiration, can kill and maim… but isn’t really happening as our Dear Leader said it will go away soon.
“One human dictating to another human is part of being human.“
It just occurred to me that you may be correct on this Doug. My wife and my daughter have been pursuing this happiness with regard to me for over 40 years. Maybe it’s really only the “pursuit” that matters after all.
1. Women truly have all the power.
2. Women truly have all the sexual power.
3. Their power in all cases is determined by their value to men.
Thus endeth the lesson.
Doug — I have to totally agree that he is unfit for the job — but since he has been denying the coronavirus and causing more deaths with his denials, I have come to the epiphany that it is more than “Unfit” and leads more toward “Dangerous.” Narcissist meltdown — a kind of revenge for the impeachment? Worse? Something clinical and untouchable?
@John
You had Democrat governors make nursing homes accept people who had COVID-19, and you are blaming Trump for killing people? What people?
Yeah..,. John… probably the most important threat to the nation in modern history and we manage to be in the middle of the worst president in modern history. We are well beyond the politics of it all. Honestly.. sorry the guy didn’t work out for your support actually. He’s betrayed a lot of supporters.
I have told people before that my politics change with the winds. Right now I see the situation that we are in and I see the blindness of his automatons. I see the danger to our nation and I see the damage that has been done and I sense the damage that is yet to come. He is out of control.
I’ve bellowed that out often.. the scary part of Trump is that he’s not done being random.
He kind of reminds me of Hitler
The similarity is his gaslighting.. lies… and ability, because of his nontraditional, caustic behavior and nationalistic (anti-communist) harangue, to lure people who appreciate that kind of behavior. We need to keep in mind in making these kinds of comparisons… Hitler became Fuhrer by a heavy amount of violence and intimidation as part of his strategy and he did have a majority of the populace on his side early on. Trump got into power not by winning the popular vote but by a quirk in the electoral process. Nonetheless, he has managed loyal followers to him alone.. personally… on the basis of a nationalism that contrives seen unseen enemies wanting to take over America… which Herr Hitler did as well in Germany.
His “True Believers” are as blindly loyal as the SS ever was to their Father figure.
That is very true.