CHINA VS REST OF THE WORLD (insightful.co.in) is a thoughtful, well-researched article by sandomina. I thought the list included in this excerpt incomplete.
THE FOUNDATION OF AN EMPIRE
Historically it has been seen that any country which has flourished, has had two essential components:
- Outward-Looking and Inclusive Attitude
- Innovation and Education
If for any reason, any of the above components went missing from the future designs of the empire, that empire not only collapsed but plunged into darkness.
So, I left a comment here, and replied here. As ‘s reply indicates, I had not convinced . At best I had not explained myself well. Had not gotten my thoughts together. So, I persevered and tried again. However, since I think this point important, I wrote my own post and linked to ‘s article.
Here, I hope I have explained myself more clearly.
The problem with our approach to China is that many assumed that if China adopted our economic system China would become more like us. Instead, we have become more like China. Why did that happen?
Well, I think it helps if we try to understand why we elected President Donald Trump. I believe Trump’s election has been a response to the United States becoming more like China. What many of the American people have observed is that our government leaders and the leaders of our great corporations are pursuing their own immediate profit. Instead of upholding the traditional values of the United States (which they no longer seem to understand), they are upholding so-called secular, but actually Paganistic values: the worship of sex, stuff, science, state, and especially self.
Trump doesn’t come across as an authentic Christian. Still, he has resolutely defended the foundational American values the founders derived from their Christian beliefs. He has respected our Constitution and he has defended the God-given rights of Americans to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as unalienable. In particular, unlike his predecessors, Trump has not demonstrated the capacity to sell us out for personal profit.
Here is a succinct way of stating the problem.
If we don’t stand for something, we will fall for anything. (from here => https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/02/18/stand-fall/)
Look at the firestorm Trump has had to withstand, accusation after accusation, charge after charge, unending streams of slander and libel.
We all find it difficult to stand for something. Because the price we pay for standing for what we believe the Truth is in here and now, we each find it easier to be a people pleaser, to be like the people around us. When a nation becomes peopled by self-centered people pleasers, it loses integrity. Except for a tyrannical ruling class lead by a merciless leader, no one can hold it together.
This is why the attributes you listed (Outward-Looking and Inclusive Attitude, and Innovation and Education) may describe the characteristics of a tyrannical empire, but they are insufficient to describe a nation ruled by its citizens. If a nation is to ruled by its citizens, then those citizens must uphold values more sacred to each of them than their lives. Those citizens must love their family, friends, and neighbors as much as they each love themselves. Those citizens must worship God, Someone who holds each of them accountable to the Truth, instead of sex, stuff, science, state, and especially self.
This is why I subtly disagreed with conclusion, that we must contain China until China implodes, collapsing in upon itself. Instead of just trying to oppose China, we must stand for the Truth. We must give the Chinese people an alternative, the Truth. We must show them that their government does not offer them salvation through the worship of sex, stuff, science, state, and especially self. Instead, their government offers them a trap, a mirage that will leave them dry and thirsting. Only God is worthy of worship. Only God offers us life.
is right. What we believe makes a difference, and he demonstrates that. However, what I think misses is that is not enough to oppose our enemies. To achieve victory we must stand for the Truth.
Ephesians 6:10-18 Good News Translation (GNT)
10 Finally, build up your strength in union with the Lord and by means of his mighty power. 11 Put on all the armor that God gives you, so that you will be able to stand up against the Devil’s evil tricks. 12 For we are not fighting against human beings but against the wicked spiritual forces in the heavenly world, the rulers, authorities, and cosmic powers of this dark age. 13 So put on God’s armor now! Then when the evil day comes, you will be able to resist the enemy’s attacks; and after fighting to the end, you will still hold your ground.
14 So stand ready, with truth as a belt tight around your waist, with righteousness as your breastplate, 15 and as your shoes the readiness to announce the Good News of peace. 16 At all times carry faith as a shield; for with it you will be able to put out all the burning arrows shot by the Evil One. 17 And accept salvation as a helmet, and the word of God as the sword which the Spirit gives you. 18 Do all this in prayer, asking for God’s help. Pray on every occasion, as the Spirit leads. For this reason keep alert and never give up; pray always for all God’s people.
We must remember the nature of our true enemy. We cannot win on our own strength. We have never won on our own strength. We only achieve victory to the extent we equip ourselves with the armor our Lord has given us.
The governor of New York even wants to blame Trump for his decision — not Trump’s — to send patients with active COVID-19 infections into elder care facilities.
Same scenario to discern, in my opinion.
Communists Sociities do not have the same values as Democratic Societies.
The seculars do not have the same values as faith believers.
The devil is in the details vs. God is in the details
What the details of what has occurred in the USA trade relationship ever since President Bush pushed for and accomplished giving China favored trade status and platform in World values is in the details to either be accepted or rejected for its values.
In my opinion, it is time to wake up to the realization the USA and China Society values differ and return manufacturing to the USA control so as not be under China control anymore ffor vital supplies such as 90 percent of our medical supplies..
Regards and goodwill blogging.
Imagine the Chinese taking over Hong Kong and invading Taiwan. Because we have become so dependent on China, we will have huge headaches if we make a serious effort to oppose them.
Sad the thought we will or would get involved in that scenero.
Regards and goodwill blogging
The United States took on the defense of Taiwan when Red China did not have a navy worthy of mention. Keeping up that commitment has slowly become more difficult, but the issue is similar to defending Western Europe from the USSR.
“The Devil exists. The Bible is clear about that.“
Offering anything as a foundational postulate requires that all parties agree on the truth of the postulate. The other party has to, not only agree that everything in the Bible is equally true, but that your interpretation of any given assertion or metaphor in the Bible is also commonly held as true. History, and the fact that there are thousands of Christian denominations, demonstrates that there is much disagreement in the latter requirement, and rabbinical biblical scholarship seems to enhance this aspect of the debate rather than quash the resort to this sort of absolute biblical authority. Thus Doug’s quandary where he doesn’t feel the need to either accept or deny your authority.
Of course, this is not much of a problem if we are having a scholarly debate amongst Christian on how the Bible says we should view something like “the Devil”. It’s just a fun discussion not applicable to anything we do or don’t do. However, when you are asking fellow citizens of varying faiths and beliefs to change their political behavior then they are not likely to respond unless you can find foundational postulates upon which there is a common universal understanding of the truth.
Oddly, most Americans, of all belief systems hold in common the truth of certain universal virtues and vices. We mostly agree that, on a continuum between what is most virtuous and what is most vice filled, we should seek the most virtuous course and avoid the one that leads us into vice. Resort to the specter of “the Devil” serves for metaphorical illustration, but otherwise adds little to a debate over the most virtuous political course of action, especially when we are dealing with difficult choices between competing goods and competing evils (lesser angels and lesser demons), rather than the rare and mostly obvious, absolutes.
Where we get into endless, irresolvable debates Is when we attempt to claim deterministic and absolutist answers to every difficult and ambiguous civil dilemma and then we pridefully and Pharisaicly claim legalistic authority from scriptures. Once we get to that level, the discussion is basically over and we may as well pull out our swords and start crucifying each other because we have moved into warring tribal camps and are no longer one common people governed by a scale found on commonly held universal ruler.
I don’t think God can be tribal or parochial and be God. The more we become a religion at war for the sake of our own parochial interpretation (rather than universal) understanding of truth, the father we get from that actual difficult but wonderful truth that is God. A truth that is it’s own eternal reward, regardless of ambiguous metaphors like Heaven and Hell, angels and demons.
You have just made a great argument for limited government, assuming we all share the belief that our government has no business either establishing a religion or interfering in the free exercise of religion. Which we don’t.
Merely stating that the Devil exists does not require Doug or you to believe what I believe. I believe the Devil exists. It is my postulate, whether you share that postulate is up to you. The mere fact we share a belief does not make it either true or false.
Does the Devil exist? Is Satan a real being? Satan is a fallen angel. We know little about angels. So, I cannot say much about him. Other than pointing to the Bible, I cannot even prove he exists. Still, I believe the Bible, and I have the right to assert my beliefs, whether anyone else agrees or not. So long as I don’t interfere with anyone else’s rights, I have the right to live in accordance with my beliefs. Freedom of religion does not require that all parties agree upon a religious belief. Unfortunately, some people insist that we all have to believe what they believe. Your comment, at least at the beginning, provides a good argument against such impossible foolishness.
You don’t think don’t think God can be tribal or parochial and be God? Here you contradict where you began your comment, and that’s funny! You are offering your own foundational postulate.
Consider how God refers to Himself in the Bible.
Because we are tribal and parochial, and God wants us to know Him, He presents Himself so we can understand Him. To relate to us, God became one of us. Jesus, the Son of God, became the Son of Man, the son of David.
Because of prophecies, the Jews placed great importance on the fact that Jesus was the Son of David. Because we are tribal and parochial we want and need a God who is our God. We want and need a God who cares about us.
How did the Jesus, the Son of God, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob become the God of the Gentiles? He loved us. He gave His life for the forgiveness of our sins too.
I think you’ve self servingly confused yourself about what I wrote. It’s not really that hard to understand. We don’t have to agree on the same truths to have an endless argument, but we do have to agree on some foundational truths if we are to have an agreement. No one is saying that you can’t believe that the Devil exists (or that Doug can’t believe he doesn’t). However, if that belief is required as a precursor to your moral argument in favor of a given political action, then you may as well be asking some folks to believe in fairies and unicorns for all the good it does you. The funny thing is that our system of government, from the beginning was founded on the truths we hold in common while requiring, such as in the First Amendment, toleration for our differences of belief. This is not not really that complicated or controversial. You are making it so only to be argumentative, which is fine – it’s your blog – you can appear as foolish as you like.
“You don’t think don’t think God can be tribal or parochial and be God? Here you contradict where you began your comment, and that’s funny! You are offering your own foundational postulate.“
No. Read it again. I specifically offered this as MY opinion, not a postulate requiring some agreement. It’s not necessary that you agree with my opinion of it, but honestly, based upon the spread of Christianity beyond the tribes of Israel, I would think anyone who calls himself a Christian, who isn’t Jewish, and still thinks it’s a tribal religion, would have to feel like he’s a fraud or an imposter in somebody else’s tribe. My “opinion” on that notwithstanding, the vast majority of Americans (indeed, all humans at all times) agree on the “universal” truth of certain common virtues and vices, the application of which can admittedly be distorted by certain evolving cultural norms and customs. Not only are virtues accepted universal truths, but people who don’t accept them or lack the empathy to understand them, we generally consider cynical to the point of being evil, or else we think then sociopaths.
When I said I believe that Satan is real, I knew that not everyone would agree. Like Doug, you are just trying to find an excuse for ridiculing that belief. Why? Think again about the main point of the article. We cannot win against evil unless we stand for something, a greater Truth than the worship of sex, stuff, science, state, and self.
We war against spiritual forces with spiritual armor. Even if you do not believe in the existence of the Devil, you must believe in this armor. You call yourself a Christian. Then what is the problem with spiritual armor?
Don’t you believe in the Truth of Jesus? Unless we believe in the Truth of Jesus Christ, all the rest of our armor is useless. Without the belt of Truth, we have nothing to hold the rest of our armor in place. Only if we believe can we can joyfully share the Good News of peace. Only our faith in Jesus will protect us. With faith we will be secure in the knowledge of our salvation. With faith in the Truth we can speak the Word of God and cause our enemies to flee. With faith we can pray, confident our Lord will answer our prayers.
Yes, I’ve read Paul too. I don’t disagree with any of that as a matter of faith. I also never said I don’t believe that the Devil exists as a matter of faith. I’m not ridiculing anyone’s faith.
What I said was that a faith that there is something like a Devil (or even something like a Christ Jesus) is not essential for us to sensibly debate and hopefully come to agreement on civic issues by applying our shared universal consensus on what is virtue and what is vice. I honestly can’t believe that this is even a matter of dispute (unless you just want to argue for the sake of argument). You have yourself written that, even among Pagans and nonbelievers, God has written a basic universal understanding of right and wrong on all our hearts. Our shared understanding of what is virtuous and what is vice filled is the basic (we believe God given) manifestation of universal moral consensus.
Sadly, while many have faith in the morality as described by God thru the Bible… in reality morality is judged by man to qualify his actions.
Did I try to convince Doug that the Devil exists. No. I just disabused him of his silly notion that serious Christians use the Devil as an excuse for their behavior. God doesn’t allow it.
Nevertheless, when I argue my case, I argue based upon what I believe, not what someone else believes. Compromise does not require us to adopt another person’s values.
Most of us have a situational ethic. Under pressure, we give. Because we know our own strength is insufficient to adhere to a serious ethical code, we must trust in God. Want an example? Think about your response when I bring up the Constitution. Yet here you are arguing in defense of a shared universal consensus on what is virtue and what is vice. Bullshit! Until people accept the rule of Jesus Christ, there will be no such thing. We are too full of ourselves to leave each other in peace. Otherwise, why this? https://citizentom.com/2020/05/22/mandatory-sex-ed-public-schools-is-coming/
What arrogant nonsense! We disagree on a few issues so first we have to decide which of us is more saved than the other is? You refuse to compromise with your neighbor unless he adopts your interpretation of Christianity? You think the God who allowed Himself to be crucified wants you to be pridefully belligerent? And you think that that is manifesting God’s Will?
So what is it Tom? Are you arguing in a civic issue based on what YOU supposedly believe or what GOD means for us all to believe, even if we may have a vast pluralism of divergent theological interpretations?
Call it situational
if you prefer, but we practice virtue by applying it dynamically to a set of often ambiguous facts down in the dirt and confusion of this finite and fallen world where we all live, not up in your ideological ivory tower of absolutistism. Does the Scripture that you just quoted really require a subjective religious arrogance, or is it saying just the opposite – that we should find and appeal to the manifestation of the universal and eternal Chiat that is always incarnate and waiting there in each other and every human heart?
As for the Constitution, I only keep pointing out that you don’t know what your talking about. The Constitution mostly lays out an imperfect and complex ongoing process for government rather than being the simplistic, set-in-stone rule book that you want it to be. We The People concede to give legal sovereignty to the decisions made within that process even when we don’t always agree. Sure it can go too far, but you act like if your religious viewpoint doesn’t get its way in everything, then the Emperor in Rome is persecuting your majority religion. We Christians have never had it so good with a government in our entire history and all you do is whine like you’re actually being thrown to the lions by the Pagans.
I have to spout the words you want to put in my mouth, or I am arrogant? There is nothing sacred about compromise. In fact, when people do something that they should not do, we say they have been compromised.
There are times we must find a compromise, but more often all that is required is that we leave each other in peace. Of course, when we insist upon being left in peace, that upsets busybodies. If we won’t compromise with a busybody, we must be arrogant.
News! When Christ comes back the second time, He will be the King. Are you going to demand that He compromise?
What the Bible says is that we must put our entire trust in God, do things His way. That is why the early Christians so irked the Pagans. On some things they would not compromise. Many suffered joyfully for Christ, knowing it was for the best. And that is the crowd I want to belong to.
I have no idea what “Chiat” means. I just know that whenever I do the right thing God deserves the credit.
When I point out something our leaders do is not in the Constitution, you blow it off. Do you point to the Constitution to justify what Liberal Democrats have done? No. So, we are suppose to believe the Constitution means what Liberal Democrat judges say it means?We both know they are lying.
The Constitution is a charter that gives the Federal Government specific powers. The intent was to limit what the Federal Government could do. Read the 9th and 10th Amendments.
Now our glorious leaders act like they can do whatever the Constitution does not specifically prohibit them from doing. You don’t seem to have a problem with that. You have shown no inclination to stop Democrats who would have the Constitution say whatever they want it to say instead of what it actually says. And I am suppose to compromise with you? If we cannot pin down what that compromise means, what would be the point? You would stop calling me arrogant?
“Sadly, while many have faith in the morality as described by God thru the Bible… in reality morality is judged by man to qualify his actions.“
Yes! And that should give us pause and engender some humility, but it doesn’t. None of us are innocent of this sort of judgmental moralizing (myself very often included). However, when we unsheathe the Christ sacrificed on the Cross like a sword to politically batter our neighbors with Him, we ought to stop and say to ourselves and each other, “Forgive us Father for we know not what we are doing.”
Couldn’t we even start with that sometimes. Start by saying: “I don’t know what God wants me to do, and I suspect that your arrogance simply disguises the same confusion – why don’t we begin instead by applying those universal commonalities that we all share together to the issue and then work toward a humble compromise rather than claiming that my tribe or political party has God’s secret decoder ring for everything?”
“Forgive us Father for we know not what we are doing.”
I understand your context… but one might also suggest this also reads… “Father, while I ask forgiveness for I know not what I do, then to those things I do wrong.. the devil made me do it.”
Sounds more like an escape clause. Hehe.. a Trumpian deflection. 🙂
“Oh, hey.. YOU set the rules, I didn’t. If they aren’t working it’s not MY fault. Maybe the intentions are unreasonable?”
“I have no idea what “Chiat” means. I just know that whenever I do the right thing God deserves the credit.”
Ha! The pagan god of lost causes and bad cell phone typing I suppose.
You know it seemed like I was a flight student for a very long time, basically four years of continuous training before I finally, gratefully made it to Patrol Plane Commander. I was always kind of a plodder as a student. It seemed to take me longer than others to get things, but once I had it, I had it cold. This often left me more than a little self conscious.
I remember having a few instructor pilots who were absolute screamers. They would be all relaxed and buddy- buddy with me in the briefing room, but once we got into the aircraft they would turn from Doctor Jeckel into Mr. Hyde. I could feel these instructors on the dual controls with me to the point where I didn’t know if I was flying or he was. Their anger at even the slightest false move was instant and palpable. This left me distraught and insecure about whether I was going to make it through or not, until I finally found out that these kind of instructors were that way with all their students.
After I became an instructor myself, I finally figured out what made these few instructors so darn angry. It was their own fear, their own insecurities about their own abilities that made them that way. They were terrified that their students would make a mistake that would kill them both (always a real possibility in flight instruction). As long as the student showed up at the preflight prepared, then a good instructor feels that it is his failure if the student isn’t getting something. A good instructor tries different approaches to teaching the maneuver and, along with the student, gets a kick out of it when the light bulb finally goes off.
In all the years I instructed, I never gave a downing flight to a student (although I gave a couple of ready room downs to students who showed up and obviously did not study). This wasn’t always easy, but I would figure out a way to continue the flight and give the student more time until he/she got it.
My feeling about flight instruction is the same as it is about life, and about being a Christian – if we are not enjoying passing on blessings God constantly gives us to love, to live, to learn and to teach, if we are angry and full of hatred at our neighbor’s faults all the time, we are probably doing it wrong, not them.
Forgive me brother – I‘m afraid that I am still a plodder in most things. No, of course, you are not arrogant or belligerent. I always admire your fierce intensity. 🙂
I only had small exposure to pilot training in a Cessna 150. However, even after four decades I still remember how much I scared my instructor. Looked to me like he had good reason to be afraid. Teaching someone to fly an airplane makes teaching someone to drive a car look easy.
Even in Cessna 150, too many things can go wrong. Still, I managed to fly solo and get my license. Just couldn’t afford to use it.
I wonder how long people remain instructor pilots, especially in civilian positions. When you are training new pilots, that is definitely a high stress job.
Anyway, thank you for forgiving me. ☺
I often feel as if we are our own worst enemy with our Pollyanna naïveté— not that Americans are Pollyannaesque —as we have our fair share of socialistic / communist wannabe idiots who are free to practice said idiocy in our land of the free— but we have this tendency to think other nations want to be like us or would be better off if they were like us— and history should teach us that that is simply not the case—
I think we confuse the desire of poor nations to be as wealthy as America with a desire to be like America.
Look at how poorly we educate our own people in civics. If it was easy to understand what our nation’s founding fathers accomplished, teaching civics properly would not be necessary.
Then consider. If our own people have so much trouble understanding what our nation’s founding fathers accomplished, what is the chance a foreigner will understand?
Freedom is not free. We have to work for it, and we must know how to work for it. That begins with knowing what it means to be free, and Liberal Democrats and Conservatives cannot even agree on the definition of freedom. Look at how each side defines human rights.
Below is former National Security Advisory Susan Rice’s answer to this latest Trumpublican political China deflection gambit to hide a total incompetence in dealing with the virus and with China. It’s better than anything that I could write. Read it or not, shoot the messenger rather than deal with the truth or not of the message, but this is going to be the argument that you hear, and, like the virus, simply living isolated in some asinine America First ideological ivory tower and ignoring the impending reality of Chinese hegemony is not a strategy for surviving that reality.
There’s a pay wall so I can’t read it.
Does it mention the “69 page pandemic playbook” by any chance?
The don’t seem to have that problem Liz, If you are really interested, then I’m sure you can find it.
I think that you would agree that the filters to information here are less technological than ideological. I don’t know how to get past that filter for you, and I’m sure that you feel the same about me and Doug. But like they said on “The X Files”, but never seemed to actually find, “the truth is out there”. (As an example, Micheal Lewis has a new book that talks about all the “playbooks” that the incoming Trump administration ignored – you can provide the water, but if your horse is an idiot …).
Regardless, Rice on the Democratic side will be one of the ones making the deeper policy arguments, not me. Like you, I’m simply a voter with one vote.
Salmon, you have to be a subscriber to read the NY Times articles. It goes up to a pay wall in seconds. But I was able to read it by turning the wifi off while the article was downloading.
At first I attempted to address all of Rice’s factual inaccuracies and then gave up.
Starting from the beginning with the trade war being “costly” for us and great for China. I don’t know what to say. It’s like an absurd fallacy world. The pandemic hasn’t been around long enough to forget we had the incredible economic boom that preceded it. We’re talking three months ago.
To continue, in Rice’s estimation Trump is apparently too complimentary of China and praises their abuses, but also simultaneously too critical and draconian. A nonsensical magical world of historical revisionism based on 2020 hindsight and eliminated contextual details.
Trump is the only president in my adult lifetime to take the threat of China seriously.
This I have said many many times in this forum since I’ve been here.
I haven’t switched from Trump is too critical to Trump is too uncritical!
Depending on whatever he does so I can argue the opposite was better.
This beggars belief.
When Obama was president, the DOD was using computers and blackberries shipped directly from Chinese factories. We had our identity information stolen about five times in as many years.
Once it was my spouse’s security clearance documentation (along with thousands of others) which didn’t just include our personal information, but our friends and family, even the naturalization data for our parents. This was all while Hillary was SoS (18 CIA agents died in China during those years also…weird coincidence).
We arrested Huawei’s CFO for (insert expletive of choice) sake.
See Rice play “gotcha!”
“Oh, now you’re trying to negotiate how dare you use the carrot and stick approach? I will call all sticks too mean! And all carrots too nice!”
Liz and Tom,
Rice and you two are the experts, with advanced degrees from prestigious universities and top leadership positions demonstrating a lifetime of wisdom gained through study and experience on the issues at hand. I’m just a poor retired sailor who is constantly amazed to have gotten as far as I have without being found out. However, when the question comes down to whether to follow the advice of a flimflam man and his self esteemed cult followers or Rice, well, I guess you already know which way I lean.
You can lean into any cesspool you want, but that isn’t an example I want to follow.
We know Rice lied about Benghazi, and she lied about not knowing about the investigation of Michael Flynn. Of course, to believe Rice lied, we must believe the truth exists and that it matters. The truth to Obama’s team, including his supporters in the news media, is and was whatever they needed us to believe.
The point of this post is that Americans are divided over the meaning of Truth. Men and women who looked to the God of the Bible for Truth founded our nation. Now a third of us think we should trust the truth that inside ourselves (https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/16/politics/obama-graduate-together-speech/index.html), a third of us think God defines an objective truth we can perceive, and a third of us think there is no Truth. That is why our nation is in chaos.
If you listen to Rice due to her “expertise” you must listen to Flynn also (who was held the NSA position before her, and even more an expert).
Flynn’s mistake is that he underestimated the perfidy of some of the people Obama’s administration. So, I suppose that makes him naive when compared to Rice. Therefore, tsalmon only needs to listen to Rice.
I’m really glad I didn’t waste my time trying to address all of Rice’s points.
Probably spent more time reading than it was worth though.
If you take your facts from lifetime con artist, then I guess it makes perfect sense to find your expertise in a twice confessed criminal liar.
So I tend to get my news mostly from historically credible “mainstream” sources. I suppose you think that I should be informed by your radical crackpot news sources. It’s pretty obvious that when you look hard enough Into the bazaaro blogosphere, you can confirm any nonsense conspiracy that you want. This is a tired trope, but it makes sense because you apparently believe the indisputably greatest liar who has ever held public office. Obamagate???? Hilarious. You will believe anything.
Are you taking your Trump recommended meds? Did you get your degree from Trump University? How about the Trump vitamin plan – all you needed to do was send him a sample of your urine and (for a price) Trump would make up just the assortment to cure anything that ails you. 🤣
When the elites in the South supported slavery, they were what you call historically creditable. They were still feeding each other a bunch of lies. They were DEMOCRATS.
The same virtue signaling jerks who want to tear down monuments to the founding fathers are perfectly happy to call themselves DEMOCRATS. How is that for historical reliability?
When the Obama administration and later its deep state hangovers “investigated”, libeled, and slandered the Trump administration, they executed an actual conspiracy. This has been documented by documents it took years to pry out of the government, but the “historically reliable” news media you frequent is not reporting the truth about this. However, they were perfectly happy to use unnamed sources to libel and slander the Trump administration.
Your favorite source is The New York Times. I have already listed reasons that paper is not fit to use at the bottom of a bird cage. Your response? Make fun of Trump. You are the expert on hydroxychloroquine (https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/resources/pdf/fsp/drugs/hydroxychloroquine.pdf)? Because of what you got out of news sources that hate Trump? All you are doing is illustrating just how dumb a supposedly intelligent human being can be.
Trump is just like the rest of us. He is dealing with a situation too big for anyone, but God. Therefore, he is using hydroxychloroquine, hoping.
Dr. Fauci portrays himself as the voice of caution. Because hydroxychloroquine is still being tested, he refused to endorse it. At the same time he has refuse to endorse reopening the schools. Yet there is nothing cautious about shutting down the economy at this point. It is pure recklessness. At best, Fauci just wants to avoid the responsibility. He is also probably fears going against the partisan Liberal Democrat news media and vengeful Democrats, who want the economy to stay shut down.
So, I give Trump credit. He has more courage than you or I have.
I don’t give Liberal Democrat politicians, their rich donors, or their news media cronies credit for anything but selling their souls to the devil. They don’t care about people. They just want what they want.
The folks that interviewed him asserted that Flynn did not lie, was helpful, and answered their questions to the best of his ability. It was only after Flynn’s son was threatened he made the plea bargain.
Let’s remember at the time you asserted that there was no other explanation for the plea bargain (other than he had massive “dirt” on Trump, and had absolutely collaborated with the Russians) and I didn’t understand what a plea bargain was, if I thought otherwise.
You stated: “Trump tweeted that he fired Flynn because Flynn lied to the FBI. And what did Flynn lie about? His foreign obligations while heading the NSC, including his being on the Russian payroll. But Trump didn’t fire him when he learned this but only later when it was exposed.”
Do you truly now think the above comment aged well? It has been prove completely false.
I said: it has been mentioned that it would be odd to plea bargain (as Flynn did, for example) in these cases. I’m no lawyer but I can’t imagine why that is odd. I’ve seen investigations in action (tangentially) and unlike the average individual the government has unlimited resources and time. Not so the average person…and they can make your friends and associates leverage against you (as they did by threatening Flynn’s son).
The facts as we now know them would indicate I was exactly right.
Yes. I know about those supposedly withheld “documents” that the Democratic Illuminati conspired to keep secret for three years (except Trump had them the whole time) while actually Trump bungled his running of the world. Have you actually read them? They explain everything. Sure….right….
I think you give the Dems more diabolical credit for evil plotting than they are actually capable of. Your whole argument depends upon the absurdity that, if the opposition is not perfect, and you can find even the most ridiculous possibility of impropriety, then the Dems must be a cabal of devilish masterminds – by that standard and given Trump’s corrupt bumbling, he must be the greatest evil genius of all time – corruption, incompetence and narcissistic vice absolutely oozes from the Orange Idiot.
If you’ve got to go back to the heyday of press muck raking during the Civil War to tar the NYT, then can’t you see how deranged your world view has become. You know that the Republicans got us into a stupid, wasteful and destructive war in Iraq since then, and the NYT had its sad part in that too. Our “mainstream” press, including its Left and Right leaning media in the Fourth Estate, is like democracy itself. It’s absolutely terrible, except that all the alternatives are worse. You’re too smart and well meaning a person to think like some imbecile who lives in a binary world where everything has to be perfect or else it’s absolutely evil. Grow up and see this finite and fallen world as it is, a place where we Christians, mostly imperfectly, balance and compromise between completing goods and evils, and we must accept a whole lot of unknowns. The question is “who is accountable”, and if you have to desperately go back to the Civil War to blame someone, anyone, for your Trumpublican incompetence, that’s pretty pathetic.
If our response to the Corona Virus, A NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL CRISIS, has demonstrated a catastrophic lack of leadership and competence that has cost us in approaching 100,000 American lives and the collapse of our economy into a Depression, there is only one person to blame, and it’s not the Administration from three years ago, it’s not the forever lying Chinese communists (that nobody has ever trusted before Trump), it’s not the press and it’s not the diabolical Dems – it’s where the buck is supposed to stop -your idiot President.
Must be nice to be one of the cool kids. With the news media behind you, you can believe what you want and hear yourself lauded as so virtuous.
The incompetent governor of New York has people dying by the thousands. He does dumb things like forcing nursing homes to accept people with COVID-19. Meanwhile, he is the news media’s hero. Those people are your experts?
The American Civil War did happen. Southern leaders conspired first to spread slavery. When that plan failed, they conspired to rebel.
So, the conspiracy that the Obama administration launched against the Trump administration is hardly the first such conspiracy in history. In fact, it was a relatively small one. All a conspiracy involves is some people working together to hurt other people. In this case, Democrats conspired against the Trump administration. Saying Democrats have not done so is just ridiculous, but Democrats do tell big, transparent lies.
You want to believe the Liberal Democrat news media? Have fun continuing to be wrong about everything.
Just to add, Mike used to tell people if OSI wants to speak with you, ask for a lawyer before you say anything. The government can lie all they want to you, but you cannot lie to them. (as I mentioned above in a quote long ago to TSalmon) Unlike the average individual the government has unlimited resources and time. Not so the average person…and they can make your friends and associates leverage against you. It’s very natural, when one is innocent to go into that room thinking that since you’re innocent there’s no problem answering questions. That is a very bad trap to fall into. They know how to word questions in a way to get the response they are looking for.
Flynn opted to answer questions from the FBI agents without his lawyer present. At the time, the agents’ takeaway from the questioning was that Flynn was telling the truth and that it was unlikely he would be charged with a crime.
If our response to the Corona Virus, A NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL CRISIS, has demonstrated a catastrophic lack of leadership and competence
Rather than spouting rhetoric, please now answer this question directly:
What should he have done differently and how does this juxtapose with what the experts were saying to do at the time?
Because he went against expert opinion and acted more conservatively, and history has shown he was right. If he did the wrong thing there has to be a right thing he didn’t do. In the real world, not some hypothetical magical fiction world.
Interview with Crenshaw.
If you’ve got to go back to the heyday of press muck raking during the Civil War to tar the NYT, then can’t you see how deranged your world view has become.
Here’s a headline from just yesterday. When I don’t think the NYT can fall any lower, they always prove me wrong.
Kind of a odd thing to post for Memorial Day, but that’s The New York Times
Kind of a odd thing to post for Memorial Day, but that’s The New York Times
Yes. Odd. But not odd for the NYT at all.
Since I will not subscribe I cannot read that piece. But going by the title that writer is either a liar (likely) or has never stepped onto a military base (also highly likely).
For a large portion of the public, the military is simply a curiosity, and they believe whatever they are fed.
I saw another article title today about leadership positions in the military. If one is a minority in the military, it is an asset not a liability. I can only speak for USAF leadership, but typically they promote pilots (and fighter pilots in particular…because that skillset tends to be good for leadership, they are pretty strong swimmers so to speak). Minorities do not seem to want to be fighter pilots, so they have lower representation. I know three hispanic pilots (counting my spouse), and five black fighter pilots. Of those black pilots, only two are still in and one is rising very quickly. Of the three hispanic pilots all of them got out. Because they could make a lot more for a lot less stress and work on the outside. Leadership is really hard…hard on families, there’s little to no privacy and once one pins on General you have very limited choices and Congress placed a cap on Four star salaries a while back out of spite (can’t remember the reason, if interested I could ask). One has all the disadvantages to being famous without the money. Perhaps it never occurred to the NYTimes that people in such positions are simply taking the smarter option?
OF course it wouldn’t…because it’s the NYT, bastion of ivory tower loonies.
I would agree with you… skill sets of pilots generally make good mission-focused leaders. Outside of that.. well… no different than civilian life… just because you promote someone to manage people does not one bit mean they actually CAN manage people. OCS does not guarantee a leader can lead. Largely it’s a trait…. and by time they might achieve staff level it ends up a calling more than a paycheck. Although.. the longer a person stays in the military the less likely is their incentive to leave. In my case, I’ve always had an affinity for the military… and I actually decided to get married when I still had 9 months left on my enlistment as I was thinking of making it a career. But me and local command got into a twit when they wanted to assign me 30 day TDY to Goose Bay, thirty days before separation, and they could have done that anytime the previous 12 months… blah, blah… even got a congressman involved. Still had to go…. seriously thought about popping off a round into a tree to get sent back… but up until that point I had a very good performance record as an NCO. Kept my cool… got out honorably… but maybe fate was saying a military career was not in the cards. Although… I am still drawn to it to this day, in spite of your preferred choice in assuming I want to see soldiers die because you failed to see the larger picture of the context of what I was saying.
My father was assigned to Goose Bay when I was in junior high school. Spent a year and a half there.
Assigning people to assignments they don’t want when they are about to get out is a bit too routine in the military. Personnel assignments does what seems easiest.
A tough assignment being at the Goose for a year and a half.. much less my menial 30 day TDY by comparison. I was stationed at my final duty station at Grissom in Indiana guarding alert KC-135 tankers.. and four nuke-laden F-111’s on their own TDY from Plattsburg in NY. Two of those were assigned TDY to Goose so they needed guards from Grissom to support that mission.
I was at Goose smack over Christmas.. middle of their winter…which just served to enhance my rage. But.. as with all things, it was a learning experience for me. Of note, the buildings… barracks, OPs, etc., were linked by large underground causeways so that one never needed to go out in the weather. Honestly, Iceland was a far better assignment and less remote.
Time can be ironic… Goose Bay military base is apparently now deactivated. Grissom is now one of those Joint Reserve bases… Keflavik NAS was given to the Iceland Defense Forces in the early 2000’s.. and just recently re-opened enough for us to have some aircraft again stationed there during the Trump years.
McCoy AFB, where I guarded alert B-52’s and a U-2 that flew over Cuba daily, next to Orlando International has been totally deactivated and pieced out to civilians since my departure.
What once was important to the defense of the nation ends up barely a postscript in history.
Remote assignments are part of being in the military, and we all dread being separated from family. The combat assignments are worst, but they were not really part of my military career choice. We don’t put complex space systems in combat zones.
The guys who volunteered repeatedly for Afghanistan and such just amaze me, but some do it. I doubt there is a single, simple explanation for that.
My father worked with communication systems during the Cold War. So he had assignments places like Thule AFB in Greenland. As a boy I found being in Goose Bay fun. We had lots of snow to play in the winter, and there was forest and wildlife in the summer. I still remember ice fishing, playing hockey on the ice rink my father made by letting the hose run, the sudden high temperature in winter followed by a dangerous deep freeze, and fishing for smelt while sitting in a shack through a hold in the ice. I also remember hearing about three airman who committed suicide, sadly wondering what that was all about.
The worst thing I remember was being bullied, but children do that to each other everywhere. I don’t think the place we are at matters as much anymore. Our own attitude and the attitude of the people around us makes a much bigger difference.
Ah.. your dad’s Goose Bay assignment was accompanied. Kids often do manage to find things that interest them in such places.. adaptive. Truly sorry to hear about your having been bullied. I can’t say I ever was.. I always managed some level of social acceptability as a youngster. Yet to this day my guilt for having “participated” in the collective group that taunted a few in my elementary years, the laughs and finger pointing, at the expense of a few who stood out as “different”, somehow, still haunts me as an adult. One such fellow.. hard of hearing which simply made his social “differencing” all that much worse, we group taunted as children, and apparently this bullying carried into his adult years by others as he got various jobs.. to the point where he killed himself. When we think of the whys & wherefores of who in his life contributed to his private day of doom I cannot help but think my going along with the crowd that laughed and taunted him verbally just made me that much responsible. When my three were born my biggest fear was that they might fall into some social isolation of being bullied in their school years. Well, as fate would have it all three excelled beyond my wildest expectations in their respective social circles.
Anyway.. sorry you had to experience that… at any age.
But.. that does not one bit excuse or diminish my opinion of your role in supporting the Orange President as he ruins the country.
I was bullied partly because I refused to conform. I never had much interest in being one of the cool kids. Was I saintly? No. I just didn’t want what they wanted. I think that is the problem here. You cannot show how Trump is wrecking the country. You just listen too much to people who have tried to bully him out of office using fabricated evidence. I don’t want such dishonest, power hungry liars in charge of my life. They are all show and no substance. You want to be a serf. Put those people in charge.
I also got bullied because of what I call the gunslinger syndrome. Some guys want to be seen as the toughest, that is, the fastest draw. The fastest way to draw the attention of such idiots is to win a fight. I had done something dumb. I had gotten too rough when I was playing (wrestling) and hurt another guy. So he wanted to sock me. Since he was not any bigger than I am, he should have accepted my apology.
Unfortunately, that was not the end of it. Later, this troublemaker twice my size is tried to pick a fight, accusing me of calling him names, and I did not even know him. Fortunately, his mother came along and saved him from me. Seriously, she blamed me for starting it. One of the happiest occasions of my life.
When Senator Schumer made the point that Trump was a fool for crossing the Intel community, he was playing to the gunslinger syndrome.
Like as not, the Trump administration is going to put some of these Intel community gunslingers in jail where they belong. Nancy and Chuck belong in jail too, but most likely they won’t go there.
Which amazes me all the more since Trump is the biggest presidential bully in the 20th/21st century.. and you don’t care. Might be something Freudian in all that?
You are just name calling. That only impresses people who are too concerned about what others think about them. Waste of time. It is far more important to be right than in the majority. Paying attention to angry, emotional name callers does not get us any closer to being right.
Wow, that led to some interesting reading! Thanks Doug and Citizen Tom. 🙂
I’ve never heard of Goose bay. We almost got an assignment to Eilsen (sp?) which is in Fairbanks, Alaska (600 miles north of Anchorage).
Since about half the year is night over there, and the weather horrible, the military would usually spend the winter in Hawaii while the family sat it out.
Fortunately we didn’t go there (I did buy the coat, it has come in handy for sitting in the stands watching football games in Colorado). Instead we went to Alamagordo, New Mexico (site of the old nuclear testing programs…don’t drink the water!).
Although.. the longer a person stays in the military the less likely is their incentive to leave.
That’s true for a while, but most of the folks in the top leadership positions are or have been eligible to retire. They extend their commitments when they pin on rank, or accept a new assignment (but typically once a person pins on a star they can’t refuse…or retire, until the military is done with them. A star can be a cage, I don’t think most people know this)
Visited that AFB in Fairbanks when I was assigned to Clear AFS. Went there to shop and go to the movies. It is okay in summer, but the cars need to be hitched to an electric outlet in the winter. Otherwise, the battery gets too cold to turn over the engine. Have to heat the engine oil too. Gets to thick otherwise.
If Trump did not follow a playbook written by the Obama administration, that is hardly a surprise. Republicans did not vote for Trump to behave like Obama. Yet, hilariously enough, not behaving like Obama is Trump’s real “crime”.
The Obama administration is clearly guilty of interfering with the peaceful transition power from itself to the Trump administration. That includes inexcusable abuses of power, even trying to frame Trump and his officials of committing crimes.
Liberal Democrats and their poisonous allies in the news media have done everything they could to stymie anything the Trump administration has tried to accomplish, good, bad, or indifferent. That is sick! It is time you started checking alternative sources and verifying the truth of what the Liberal Democrat news media has been telling you.
You don’t think so? You think your favorite news media sources, like The New York Times, are truthful. Well, make a list of what Liberal Democrats actually do, including things like Pelosi’s 3 trillion dollar bill. If you think it is wonderful for government to fund abortion, fund euthanasia, spend recklessly, give illegal alien criminals special rights, throw people in jail for wanting to work (while letting criminals out to protect them from COVID-19), spend hundreds of billions (for donors) on unproven science, underfund our military forces, drive manufacturing out of our country, corrupt our election system,….. then vote Democrat. But you have the explaining to do, not somebody else. That is true even if you only have one vote.
I just read that the NYC mass transportation systems are now being shut down for “deep cleaning” every night from 1 until 5.
They didn’t do this until (wait for it)….
MAY. This month.
It’s Trump’s fault!
He should’ve demanded New York shut down and scrub their transportation systems.
He should’ve know they would be too stupid to do this on their own!
He’s responsible for thousands of deaths!!!!
It’s….far, far lower number than the most conservative estimates, but yah!!
I mean, he had a lockdown when the mayor of New York was telling everyone to ignore, kept the schools open and asked them to go out as much as they could.
He shut down travel before the experts advised it, when he took political heat and everyone was calling him a bigot.
But…yeah, orange man bad! Bad cheeto man.
Let’s vote, instead, for a guy no one would trust with their car and a list of three items to buy at the piggly wiggly.
The Orange Man’s politics aside, how much are you going to put up with his abnormal, bufffoonish, self-serving, behavioral idiocy before you forget him, and side with America?
Remember way back in 2016 when people voted for Trump because they hated Hillary? Seems this time Trump is out and who cares who runs against him. These take home ballots will encourage more voters to vote… and adios Herr Trump. But sadly that will not quiet him at all. After he plays a mockery of the system and brings every negative state vote to SCOTUS to delay the inevitable…. he will continue to play to his base after he’s gone.. he will NOT adhere to the tradition of ex-presidents staying out of the limelight.. and he will be on TV firing up the radicals… and that’s when things will get nasty.
Somehow managed to spam this comment. Anyway, I got it back.
One of the things that floors me is how the so-called mainstream news media can get away with praising an incompetent while they rain their hatred on a relatively competent leader. Says more about us than it does our leaders. It says we don’t have the good sense to verify the news we are getting.
Seems this time Trump is out and who cares who runs against him.
Thank you, Doug, for proving by open admission that this has nothing to do with fitness for candidacy and everything to do with media brainwashing.
Who cares. Indeed.
Maybe the next guy can president from the dementia ward.
Or we might just elect a stack of old magazines.
I think the stack of old magazines would be preferably safer than a second term mason jar full of old kerosene for a second term. Either way.. no smoking might be a good idea.
Rice is echoing what most of us non-Trumpians feel… and there’s nothing “fake” about it. But does any of the shenanigans end when he leaves? I’ve been pondering this as well… the aftermath of his departure (pretty much a “given” to me).
Absolutely no question, if the man survives the virus AND his self-medicating nonsense, the man will be pulled from the Oval Office kicking and screaming to SCOTUS on every state election that doesn’t go his way. But once we get past that debacle of his departure…. he is NOT going to sit quietly on the sidelines as a warm and contemplating, memoir-writing, ex-president. He will be back to TV… he will be an ex-president that will still have the devoted followers who will be stirred up on his every ridiculous conspiracy theories and outright lies…. and I do fear some level of a Trumpian backlash that could get violent. We should not be seduced that when Trump leaves office all politics will return to normal. Also agitating this situation will be our trying to recover in the anticipated “new world normal” under a new president that has to face lost jobs, lost businesses, and some level of a reforming and evolving economy with new rules. My own feeling is that some level of violence, regional, whatever, should be expected… and if Trump manages to stay alive he will most certainly feed all that discontent. And I feel all that whether we get a vaccine or not. The virus is just the tip of the iceberg, I fear. Boy, do I hope I am wrong.
Trump needs to debate Biden on national television, real time.
Just once. They can maintain a proper social distance.
This is the slowest of pitches and he should take it.
Rice is echoing what most of us non-Trumpians feel… and there’s nothing “fake” about it.
You’re saying the pandemic playbook is fake?
If we are defining any “pandemic playbook” as being the unified culmination of how we deal with this mess as some sort of coherent plan…. there hasn’t been a “playbook” and none exists to this day. If you are defining a pandemic “playbook” as someone’s agenda to cast blame, assign blame, and deflect blame for creating this mess.. oh sure…that one exists… in multiple copies, in fact.
We are nationally going to have our hands full trying to figure out our economy for years to come.. and way busy adapting to the evolution of doing business again. What we likely DO NOT need is saber rattling (economic or otherwise) with our primary trading partner to the degree that we end up more pissed at each other than either of us really wants.
Whatever the hell China was tinkering with, it got away from them. We deal with it to save lives… not find reasons to take more lives in other “more traditional” ways. ALL major governments have failed in responding to this. Patch the holes for next time (and there will be a next time).. create new joint treaties, economic or medical,… whatever is required. Lives need to be saved and economies need to be fixed. Those should be the priorities. Not political blame.
Are you wrong? Well, the walls have been closing in on Trump for about four years.
Are we in a mess? Yes. Because of Trump? No.
Liberal Democrats in this country worship idols instead of God. You want to gain some perspective of why that is a problem? Then take the time to read the Book of Judges. This is a book in the Old Testament that describes how Israel ruled itself between the death of Joshua and the anointing of Saul as Israel’s first king. The book is a series of horror stories. Why? Instead of obeying God each man did what was right in his own eyes.
How does doing what is right in our own eyes work? Consider how you regard hydroxychloroquine. Because Trump uses it, you hate hydroxychloroquine. Instead of trying to determine the truth, you believe what you want to believe.
Hydroxychloroquine (https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/resources/pdf/fsp/drugs/hydroxychloroquine.pdf) has been around for decades. Trump consulted with his doctors, and he is taking it with their guidance. This is an off-label use of a drug already proven safe. Limited, incomplete research strongly suggests this off-label use is effective. The fact the mass media hates hydroxychloroquine has nothing to do with the drug. The Liberal Democrat mass media reflexively opposes anything Trump does, and that is an insane way to think. It is that sort of thinking that made the Book of Judges a series of horror stories.
Never bothered establishing an account with The New York Times.
1. They ignored the Holocaust.
2. They covered up for Joseph Stalin.
3. Susan Rice is a known liar. The notion that the Trump administration need to attack Joe Biden to deflect from its handling of Covid-19 and record of appeasing Beijing is just absurd. The easiest way to attack Joe Biden is to encourage him to come out of his basement. The idea that Trump has been appeasing Beijing (as compared to Obama/Biden?) is a joke.
4. They feature pretend Conservatives.
5. They used so-called leaks from unnamed sources to attack the Trump administration.
6. The racist 1619 Project.
7. I have better things to do.
And to your last line.. our “enemy” of course, is the “they”, the “them”… fellow Americans that apparently know not what they do. Fellow Americans that represented the majority of American voters who did NOT vote for Trump. That Trump’s victory, while absolutely legitimate, was in NO way a majority mandate for any sort of collective change but rather won from a minority expression of economic disparity, not Constitutional interpretation of preferred governance.
Take a deep breath and read that Bible passage again.
“The devil” has been a most acceptable and convenient metaphor for anything bad that humans do to themselves and each other. I find it a deflection of responsibility. The devil, Satan, whatever, didn’t make you do it. God (allegedly) gave us free thought. Seems to me with that comes the responsibility to determine how free you want your thoughts to be and whether or not to act upon them.
But as much as I prefer not to debate religion (and with you specifically, being the wise Biblical sage in these parts), part of what makes us human is being able to classify the world around us in terms of plus/minus, yin/yang, good/evil, yes/no, every action has an equal and opposite reaction, yada, yada. The establishment of what is evil tends to then define how to be good. Not sure I fully appreciate that direction of “training” in all cases.
The Devil exists. The Bible is clear about that. However, we know very little about angels, good or bad.
Does the existence of the Devil make us less responsible for our sins? No. Read Chapter 3 of Genesis. God punished Adam and Eve. He also punished the Devil.
The existence of the Devil gives us a choice of masters. We can choose Satan, or we can choose our Maker, God. There are no other alternatives. Any choice besides God leads to Hell. Even if we just choose not to obey God, we commit a sin of omission. That is, the establishment of what is evil does not define good. Instead, when we do not do good — obey God — we do evil by being disobedient.
I expected a reply such as this from you, Tom… and I am in no place to provide dispute. 🙂
You are in no place to provide dispute? 🤔Nevertheless, you tried.
Not in the least.. I provided a personal perspective.. not any dispute. You provided biblical context.. of which no disputing was necessary. 🙂
I showed you that belief in the Devil does not provide us any excuse to deflect responsibility. That is what is called a joke.
Well said, Tom. More power to you.