I have not been very active on the Internet lately. Why? Well, I spent a couple of days in the hospital last week. Why? Since this blog is not about me, I won’t say. I will just say a couple of days of being shut down in a hospital room instead of at home is not an improvement. Nurses (good people with lots of sharp needles) keep interrupting your sleep.
Since I don’t have cable TV at home, I took advantage of the opportunity to peruse what is on the cable these days. I still don’t think it is worth the money. Since I am a news junkie I spent most of the time watching FOX and CNN. Because it is less partisan and provides us a dozen different views from talking heads on the latest headline, FOX is slightly better than CNN. FOX gets ridiculously repetitive, but CNN just spends its time cheerleading Liberal Democrats in their war against Donald Trump.
Anyway, I left the hospital still of the opinion that it is more efficient and much less expensive just to listen the radio or go onto the Internet and visit various news websites.
Of course, nothing much changed during my brief stay in the hospital. We are still afflicted with the Coronavirus (COVID-19) and this ridiculous economic shut down, and it seems never trumpers want to keep it that way. Insane! Is it really worth destroying our economy just to keep Donald Trump from being reelected? Who benefits from that?
I am appalled by what is going on where I live. Why? Northern Va. leaders urge Northam to reconsider reopening plan (wtop.com). The Mayors and Chairs of the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Loudoun and Prince William, and the City of Alexandria sent the governor a letter (alexandriava.gov). What is their excuse? Well, they want the governor to follow his own rules.
Two weeks ago, you released your Forward Virginia blueprint for the easing of the public health
restrictions currently in place. You provided five threshold metrics for a transition to Phase 1:
• Downward trend of positive tests over a period of 14 days
• Downward trend of hospitalizations over a period of 14 days
• Enough hospital beds and intensive care capacity
• Increasing and sustainable supply of PPE
• Increased testing and tracing(from here (alexandriava.gov))
What is the problem with this? Look at the restrictions (here (virginia.gov)). We are still in this mode where we insist upon quarantining EVERYONE. We cannot open up the economy and quarantine EVERYONE.
Because Coronavirus (COVID-19) is so highly contagious, we cannot keep the virus from spreading. We can only slow down the contagion. Hence our object should be to keep the old and vulnerable from getting the virus, not to prevent EVERYONE from getting it. Why will that work? Once enough people have been infected and recovered, the virus will stop spreading because most people will be resistant and therefore unsuitable as hosts.
Unfortunately, too many people have been made fearful by cable news and the like, an those who worship at the alter of government actually believe we can stop the virus if EVERYONE obeys the commands of our high mucky-mucks. That is stupid. Our health officials just wanted to flatten the curve (slow the spread of the virus), not to prevent everyone from catching it. The object was to keep our hospitals from being overburdened.
We need to let retirees stay at home, quarantining themselves, and we need to be careful about who we let into senior care facilities. What we don’t need to do is give our leaders the power to issue these damnable executive orders, shutting everything down and seizing powers they have no business having. When we know they cannot do what they are trying to do, what is the point of giving our leaders so much power? When their orders make so little sense (closing beaches and parks), what makes us think they even know what they are doing?
When we are irrationally afraid of something we cannot change anyway, we are probably worshipping at the wrong alter.
Psalm 46:1-3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
46 God is our refuge and strength,
[b]A very present help in [c]trouble.
2 Therefore we will not fear, though the earth should change
And though the mountains slip into the heart of the [d]sea;
3 Though its waters roar and foam,
Though the mountains quake at its swelling pride. [e]Selah.
Citizen Tom 
Tom, as you may know when Coronavirus first came on to the scene I was one of those with a lets not get over excited here attitude. I am an ex Army Medic and held an LPN licence so at first there was no data supporting government intervention.
Once it became apparent that COVID-19 was more in line with Pandemic’s of the past I supported President Trump’s “guidelines” to states. First because the Feds did not directly intervene, and second because they seemed like reasonable protection measures while things got sorted out.
I was highly criticized by fellow “Christians” for an article I wrote “COVID-19 and the Church” in which I laid out the church and individual Biblical responses and responsibilities to the state and local governments orders concerning shelter in place, no gatherings over 10 people, etc. My main focus was that until they (the Govt) makes an order that is unethical, immoral, or illegal we are biblical bound to obey those appointed by God.
The issue now is many of those, (appointed by God, that is those elected to REPRESENT US) across this nation are imposing laws and restrictions that are clearly unethical, immoral, or illegal. For example you can never convince me Liquor stores which have been considered essential business from day one capable of feed man spirits but churches in many states remain closed as non-essential to feeding mans soul.
Further although, many demand a vaccine before moving to “REOPEN” the country the numbers do not justify the continued lock-down. The justification for caution, yes, the justification for everyone to do their part responsibly to keep from spreading the virus sure. We need to remember, the “Justification” for the lock-down was the fear, by the government, that hospitals would be overwhelmed and with the exception of a few initially in New York that has not happened anywhere. In fact many hospitals have had to lay off staff because nothing was going on if they were not directly servicing COVID-19 patients. The “justification” for the lock-down no longer exists unless as you point out, Power Hungry Politicians want folks to worship them.
@directorfsm
I don’t have any medical background. I just have taken a bunch of science courses including quite a few in biology. Like you, at first I acquiesced to the shutdown. I was quite reluctant, but the Chinese government was hiding things. In addition, the Chinese seemed to be in something of a panic.
Once we got more information, however, I decided we did not have an emergency that justified giving the governors so much power. The Democrats were not acting scared. Instead, they were grasping for more power. Unfortunately, the Republicans won’t fight back unless we make them more scared of us than they are the news media.
Tom, I too hope your health problems are resolved. Sorry you had to be in the hopsital. I can’t think of a place I’d less rather be at now. 🙂
@Tricia
I am fine, but I don’t think there is ever a good time to be in the hospital, unless I am sick, of course. 🤔
:)n Good point Tom!
Tom,
Hope your health problems not too serious. Interesting to see the security measures in our hospital because of coronavirus. No visitors, everyone’s temperature taken at entrance, everyone given a surgical face mask which everyone must wear, no exceptions.
I agree if there are no elder people living in a household, everyone should return to work and play as long as they use same protective measures to enter enclosed areas and wear face masks to prevent spreading if a person does not know they are infected.
If there is an older member ior someone with health special health problems in a household, they need to be isolated from the rest of the family or better yet if they can afford it, move out to temporary location away from their family.
Stay well. Your absence was missed.
Regards and goodwill blogging.
@Scatterwisdom
Thanks for your concern and for missing me.
I agree that when someone elderly is a member of the household that presents a problem. I am afraid I don’t have a good answer for that one. I just think shutting down the country is not a solution. Sharing the pain isn’t the same thing as solving the problem.
Forgot to add:
Sorry to hear about your hospitalization, Citizen Tom. Hospitals suck. 😦
Hope you are doing better.
@Liz
The only thing worst than hospitals is not having any hospital to go to when we need one. I think that thought is how we got ourselves into this shut down. Now that we have a solution we need to end it.
Did I miss something on FOX?? We have a vaccine?
@Doug
Do you want to keep the country shut down until we have a vaccine?
Tom… we need testing and data collection in order for the population to adapt emotionally. We have no idea what “waiting for a vaccine” even means. If we had a solid plan from the government.. a best-luck-of-the-draw timeline based on actual science and social needs.. the public would follow. But we didn’t get that. So.. we adapt. You can work whatever numbers you want to swing around to justify one thing or another.. but the reality is… along with the deaths that you and others want to simply dismiss as “casualties of war” to save the economy, it’s the infected and the resultant infirm that requires huge amounts of health care assets and attention. If there’s an infection surge of any kind.. well, we are back to makeshift hospitals. Besides that… the workforce is greatly at risk for still having at any given time a significant number off sick. The convalescence time goes well beyond just leaving the hospital feeling good.
We need to solve the problem on many levels.
I personally feel more for the children… but again… this won’t last forever and as we get into a testing availability we can more easily adapt. But we really need to give it time.
@Doug
It is irrational to ignore every other aspect of life just to focus on one problem, and that is what you are doing. Unless people work, people die. No food, clothing, and shelter and people die. It is BS to say otherwise.
We work to provide ourselves critical resources. Unless we work, we cannot even pay for all the tests you want.
You are a bit paranoid… quite understandable given the situation. No one is starving and I am certainly not promoting any sort of a long term option.. be we literally have no idea what “long term” or “short term” even means. As I explained earlier… we have 80% of the labor force still working.. and the food chain is still continuing just fine. The difficulty arises with the surplus of agriculture given the drop in out-of-home food consumption.. meaning restaurants, fast food, etc. is forcing the disposal.
The meat suppliers? They are going to fix that with more work-based employee protections. But again… that business will also drop as out-of-home places don’t place orders. Actually, that’s simply adapting the market to lower demand. No one is going to starve as long as the distribution channels stay operating.
I do see a risk to workers in the grocery stores. But we can even adapt to that.
We are still a “fat” country, Tom. We will do just fine. But it could be a different place to live down the line. We adapt.. or die.
@Doug
If we have a government shut down, about 17 percent of the government workforce is not working. What happens? The news media whines piteously, but those government workers get their paychecks, and the darn things hardly last more than a couple of weeks.
In this case the economy is shut down. 10’s of millions are losing their jobs, and the food banks are extremely busy. Overrun? Instead of telling me how little I know, why don’t you try googling the matter?
You’re better than this, Tom. You don’t balance jobs against death and suffering. Certainly my Christian training never taught that. You haven’t got a focus on the problem yet. I would easily trade employment to save a single life from dying of this disease. You’re still belaboring the politics of it all. It’s not about jobs.. it’s about people. From there “we” (government and us as individuals) start to collectively help the people who do not have jobs. I’ve just posted in here more than once time today… with 17% of the workforce unemployed we still have 83% working. An economy IS working, albeit not as it once did a couple of months ago.
Yes.. this is a national emergency that is soon to become a national disaster. If the government needs to print up money to save lives.. that’s what government should do… right up until the end of it all. It’s about people.. not status quo. When/if this is over we can do what we do to get some of the “old” back into gear… but that alone will not be over night.
Also keep in mind.. we are not the only ones in the world going through this. All the economic powers are experiencing this. Even Russia. When/if there is a final vaccine conclusion to all this… no single country is going to come out economically at some advantage over the other. Sadly, I fear things are going to have to get worse a cross the world before we can have some global cooperation penetrate this nationalistic reluctance to cooperate.
Here’s a thought… you have that “national alliance” thing going on in the other blog for your state. I dunno if that’s a “paper blog interest” or if it represents some active organization. If it were me.. and of course it’s not… I’d turn it into something not political and start helping your fellow man in some fashion. Be a conduit for saving people… give food away to those without jobs… connect with local politicians for state help to help people, whatever. But politics right now is not important.
@Doug
When public officials declare some jobs essential, they are balancing jobs against death and suffering. If they can do it, why can’t I say they are doing it wrong?
We had an objective. We shut down the economy to prevent overloading our hospitals. All I have stated is instead of trying to prevent everyone from getting the virus we need to protect the people the virus is far more likely to harm. You have yet to say what is wrong with that idea. All you have done is say there is something wrong with me.
The Prince William and Manassas Family Alliance has a perfectly legitimate purpose. If you think we should be doing something else, do it yourself. Since that objective is your priority, it must be what you have been called to do.
“When public officials declare some jobs essential, they are balancing jobs against death and suffering. If they can do it, why can’t I say they are doing it wrong?”
Because you are a religious man and it surprises me you support an immoral guy like Trump and then make statements affirming jobs more important than lives.
“We had an objective. We shut down the economy to prevent overloading our hospitals. All I have stated is instead of trying to prevent everyone from getting the virus we need to protect the people the virus is far more likely to harm. You have yet to say what is wrong with that idea. All you have done is say there is something wrong with me.”
No.. I have spent most of this day posting here and explaining my position…. and challenging your Christian ideals as it relates to all this.
“The Prince William and Manassas Family Alliance has a perfectly legitimate purpose. If you think we should be doing something else, do it yourself. Since that objective is your priority, it must be what you have been called to do.”
I made no assertion at all that the Alliance was not legitimate in its purpose. Just suggesting that if it’s a political thing you might wanna table it for a greater purpose of saving lives seeing as how the pandemic is not a political problem… and politics is not important to solving the problem.
@Doug
You sound like CNN.
I did not say jobs are more important than lives. I said work is required to live.
You have explained your position, but you have not justified it. You have just shamed anyone who disagrees.
You have not addressed critical issues.
1. If forcing people to stop working jeopardizes more lives than it saves, then forcing people to stop working is clearly wrong.
2. When we can save lives without forcing people to stop working, then forcing people to stop working is clearly wrong.
Your questions are not without some moral construct to answer.. or respond to.
1. “If forcing people to stop working jeopardizes more lives than it saves, then forcing people to stop working is clearly wrong.”
Way too open ended a question, Tom. “Forcing” people to stop working as part of a plan with timelines and goal milestones to provide a remedy to hopefully get back to some semblance of normal… is a far better statement. Trump blathering about that if people don’t go back to work then people will die in droves from suicide and drug use is complete ridiculousness. That will not happen to the tune of near 3,000 Americans dying each day.
Now.. that could very easily happen in an apocalypse over a period of months and years where society is totally gone, anarchy reigns,,, disease, death from each other, complete loss of hope and total hopelessness and shock.. yep.. that could happen. But we aren’t anywhere near that.
Also.. the issue of survival is food, shelter, a social structure… family. It is NOT Arbeit Macht Frei for the sake of working. If the economy is stifled, needs repair, years of stimulus and confidence building then most everyone will be in a similar condition. We re-build from where we have to.. regardless of the position you had before all this happened. Life is not a guarantee of survival. If you built a great restaurant that specializes in gourmet aardvark specialties before the pandemic does not one bit mean that once everything is back to some kind of normal that people of the new economy would like aardvark dinners. You move on.. find something else… or work for someone else.. start over.
2. “When we can save lives without forcing people to stop working, then forcing people to stop working is clearly wrong.”
Again.. it’s in the goal setting, which our government (Trump) is unable to do. The public has to be part of the solution.. not cower and go down being victims. The public was asked to engage in mediation to control the spread.. masks, and social distancing, including staying away from clusters of other humans, hence jobs. No organized goal was even mentioned… and when the Pence/Fauci/Birx group and the CDC came up with criteria Trump ignored it.. for votes. Trump also abandoned the American public with this “leave it up to the states” BS…. as IF this national emergency is simply a state-rights responsibility. Gawd almighty, that is so damn absurd. The reason you and Liz and others are so concerned is ONLY because there is nothing so far provided in terms of focused leadership, a concise plan, and someone to believe in and have trust and be credible.
Forget damn Trump. He’s worthless. Focus on helping each other.. have faith in the science and the ability of American industry and medicine to find a way through this…. but do it without having to presume whacked and arbitrary “open the economy” without having the facts as to how we can do that according to the science. Humans are important… not the politics. Not Conservatism. Not Constitutionalism pontificating. Not building walls. Not carrying guns around dressed in camo like some cosplay soldier wannbes.
You and Liz.. and others, just are not “there” yet, Tom. Even if we manage to get a vaccine next week.. the time it takes to manufacture, distribute, administer…. months away I am guessing (hoping). In the meantime we kill more people by jumping the gun, or we give the process some time to work out. There is no “flipping it on” and back to normal. It will be a slow resurrection and we have no idea how it will work out.
@Doug
You are so full of CNN, Trump hatred, hot air, and abominable lies you cannot give a straightforward answer to any question that forces you to justify the anti-Trump narrative. You are anti-Trump, and that’s why you are in favor of keeping the economy shut down. TDS!
What if Trump told you that we should keep away from the edge of cliffs? If CNN told you that walking off a cliff would get rid of Trump, would you dash to the nearest cliff? Stupid question! Right? Well, your argument, such as it is, makes about as much sense as walking off a cliff. You have explained your position, and it sounds like a big KERSPLAT!
Whoa.. Tom.. that’s pretty off the rails. No question I am anti-Trump. But as I’ve explained ad nauseum yesterday.. we are well past politics with this pandemic. I don’t need to make him look bad.. he does that on his own.. quite effectively. We need to start focusing on each other and having some faith in letting the science have some time with this. But really… it doesn’t seem we can avoid hitting another round of suffering and death given states are opening up. Fasten your seatbelt, Tom… but please wear a mask and consider not going out in public a lot.
@Doug
You are obsessively anti-Trump. TDS.
That’s because I am a patriot and dislike how he’s bringing my country down… especially during this country’s greatest fight in the last 100 years. The greater question is… why aren’t you “suffering” from TDS?
@Doug
Hillary Clinton.
No.. that reflects the reason you voted for Trump… it does not address supporting him all this time given his demonstrated incompetence. But matters not.. the damage is done. Time to think for ourselves and forget the White House.
@Doug
Trump has doing better than I expected. Since I have not tied a dead horse around my neck like CNN, I have a pretty good idea of what is going on. Trump isn’t the problem. He is part of the solution.
Doug, you’re reasoning on this is so out of whack. Holing up from the virus will do nothing to reduce the amount of infecitons/deaths. It only slows the rate, which was what flattening the curve was all about. Mission more than accomplished there and now it’s far past time to responsibly open things up and get people working again. We also need more infections among the healthy population so we can get to herd immunity quicker.
This is the only way and I suspect deep down you kow this. A vaccine MAY come but in 12-18 months, if we’re really, really, really lucky. Most take much longer and there has never been one for any of the coronaviruse by the way.
We can’t wait any longer. Food banks around the country are running dry becase of the explosion of people now relying on them for meals. Millions of small busines owners are in complete crisis mode trying to prevent shuttering their doors forever, emloyees are suddenly left without paychecks, rents going unpaid, morgtage holders not being able to pay banks, the uptick in suicides, child abuse and drug/alcohol addiction, it’s all going to get worse. Do know anyone personally that has lost their busines, job and/or home? I do, some too old to start over.
The economy is not a switch you can merely shut off and than back on again. We’ve started a dominoe effect of which a string of economic catastrophies of will play out globally long in to the future if we don’t change course now.
Poverty brings much suffering, death, violence and misery. We have to balance that against any benefit of a cotninued shutdown.
(Hmm.. where did my reply go? Will try again.)
We can agree on at least one thing Tricia… you think I am way outta whack and I think you are grossly outta whack… the common thing being, we are jointly outta whack to each other. I’ve explained away all of what you are using for “logic” elsewhere all day in here.. so you’ll have to forgive me for not wanting to repeat it all… and I am sure you’re just fine not wanting to read anything from me anyway. But there is one takeaway from your remarks.
“Do know anyone personally that has lost their business, job and/or home? I do, some too old to start over.”
This pandemic is an event that’s part of life. Crappy, to be sure. Totally unfair to everyone. But, can you show me anywhere where it’s written, mandated, declared… that guarantees anything we do in life? Does life owe us anything? Economics is supply & demand and in between are people working and/or owning businesses within that framework. Many of us work hard on a normal day.. and many of us loose our jobs on a normal day. I’ve owned three businesses in my past.. the first two went belly up.. the third took for 15 years. I gave my heart and soul to each one.. yet the law of the land is survival of the fittest and I have no regrets and any screw ups were on me.. no one else. A tornado swings through town and rips up everything you own. Does life somehow entitle you to something? No.. you start over… or change occupations. Farmers over the millennia have had seasons of drought, famine… and seasons of prosperity. No, Tricia… life owes nothing to anyone. We just happen to have built a society that allows for nullifying and padding some of life’s daily misfortunes so some folks can get back on their feet after a tornado or an earthquake.. or go for a second try because of bad decisions.. sometimes a third try. Sounds like we’ve gotten used to that kind of thing and now we feel if we work hard then life owes us for that. With 83% of the workforce still working no one is going to starve as long as we pull together.
The better question is….
“Do you know anyone who has suffered for weeks sedated and on the machine or even died from the virus.. perhaps a family member?”
You see… the numbers haven’t reached the average American just yet. Few actually know anyone.. so it’s easy to distance oneself from that… and it’s easy to discredit the Liberal media if they report all this “fake” alarmist news anyway… or we just go watch “Downton Abbey”. Now personally I hope we don’t hit that bottom where we begin to know people who have suffered and died. I hope you and Trump are correct… everything will be back to normal in a couple weeks. All we gotta do is open everything up again… right?
You’re better than this, Tom. You don’t balance jobs against death and suffering. Certainly my Christian training never taught that. You haven’t got a focus on the problem yet. I would easily trade employment to save a single life from dying of this disease.
Yep.
Millions are out of work/businesses they own are shut down and are on the road to loosing everything they have worked for.
Some percentage of those milions are too old to recover and will now face grinding poverty and the crippling effects of old age.
Sure is uncharitable of us to be worried about them.
Sure is charitable of you to worry so much.
Though you weren’t worried about our soldiers getting targeted by Soleimani. Weird.
I think everyone should be forced to wear bubble wrap at all times.
If you disagree you simply have a callous disregard for human life and aren’t being Christian.
Kinda petty, Liz.
1. “Millions are out of work/businesses they own are shut down and are on the road to loosing everything they have worked for.”
But just ignoring future deaths and health sufferings will not one bit guarantee people will just go back to all their things they valued in life. Which then brings up the crazy concept that “life” owes us something; that because I struggled in life I am owed something. Wake up…. it’s likely gonna get worse and personal priorities will likely have to change.
2. “Some percentage of those millions are too old to recover and will now face grinding poverty and the crippling effects of old age.”
I probably realize that more than you given I am at that age doorstep myself. If I get the virus I am most surely dead given my health risk level, in spite of how well I feel. Again.. is there some guarantee that if we “turn on” the economy the elderly are going to continue to get a fair shake in the world? Nope. In fact, in pretty much any cataclysmic disaster the elderly die first and in greater numbers simply because they cannot help themselves. Would my elderly Aunt Edna feel good about surviving knowing it cost the lives of others? Maybe.. who knows.
3. “Sure is uncharitable of us to be worried about them.”
Seems like simply a misguided and misinformed judgement of priorities.
4. “Sure is charitable of you to worry so much.”
We are in a pissing match about being charitable to save lives vs. being charitable to save the elderly from living lives of poverty and crippling old age???
5. “Though you weren’t worried about our soldiers getting targeted by Soleimani. Weird.”
You jumped on that out-of-context personal conclusion.. ready to accept that interpretation as some sort of justification to assign degradation to me being anti-Trump to the point where I wanted servicemen to die. Obviously me being anti-Trump, your interpretation fit the vilification. Perhaps it was “weird” when compared to what points I’ve made here is because I failed to meet with your original misinterpretation.
6. “I think everyone should be forced to wear bubble wrap at all times.”
What’s with the bubble wrap all of a sudden? Noisy sex?
7. “If you disagree you simply have a callous disregard for human life and aren’t being Christian.”
That’s my suggestion.
@Liz
Careful! Liberal Democrats might think bubble wrap is a great idea. Can’t you see it? You are walking down the street, and a policeman stops you. “One of your neighbors called us. He said you are not wearing bubble wrap, and I can see it is true. Have you no shame sir? What if you bump into someone? I am going have to take you in. Unless you apologize profusely, the judge will probably sentence you to 30 days in a reeducation camp.”
In addition to mandated bubble wrap we need mandated food requirements since so much of disease is preventable by a better diet. Mandated exercise too.
It would be unChristian to object, after all…if just one life could be saved.
@Liz
Liberal Democrats designing our exercise programs and diets? 😱
Liberal Democrats designing our exercise programs and diets?
This would once (not so long ago) be the stuff of parody, but I can really see it happening now.
@Liz
We let government pay for and operate our schools. So now the nanny state seems to make sense.
“Do you know anyone who has suffered for weeks sedated and on the machine or even died from the virus.. perhaps a family member?”
You see… the numbers haven’t reached the average American just yet. Few actually know anyone.. so it’s easy to distance oneself from that… and it’s easy to discredit the Liberal media if they report all this “fake” alarmist news anyway… or we just go watch “Downton Abbey”. Now personally I hope we don’t hit that bottom where we begin to know people who have suffered and died. I hope you and Trump are correct… everything will be back to normal in a couple weeks. All we gotta do is open everything up again… right?
Not sure anyone has asserted that “everything” should be opened up. If NYC is still as bad as it was, they should probably keep the shutdown. Not sure anyone has asserted that “everything will be back to normal in a couple of weeks” either.
As usual, you are imagining things.
The pilot my spouse flew with a couple of days ago had an aunt who died of covid, and a friend who had a seemingly low level symptom covid and ended up having to get a pacemaker. She wasn’t very old, but it impacted her heart.
Yet this pilot was flying, doing her job (wearing the obligatory mask and taking what precautions she could).
Oops…got my reply in the wrong field. Gets confusing when the thread is so long.
I hope you’re watching the Senate hearing.
I watched it for a few minutes until Bernie’s dumb mug came up and immediately criticized the president for downplaying from day one….(click)
Heard enough. This isn’t information, it is outrage theatre.
Nutshell: The predictions of the experts (for lockdown) have not come true. We’ve exceeded their most optimistic expectations. They’ve also asserted that masks and hand santizer don’t work. Experts in N York have actually directed the slaughter of the elderly infirm (see nursing home procols). None of the predictions have been usable or useful.
If we ask a person in charge of cancer prevention to dictate ecumenic policies based on cancer risk….what would we see? Well, it would never be safe to walk in the sun (or travel anywhere, for that matter). Of course, not walking in the sun also has consequences…but that isn’t the purview of the cancer prevention expert.
@Liz
Dr. Fauci himself has admitted his expertise extends to the medical risk. The president has to look at the larger picture.
Economic, not ecumenic. Typo dat.
Have you ever been right about any of your dire predictions in the past couple of years, Doug? I’m hard pressed to think of a single instance.
The ROK has opened up a lot of things recently.
They have experienced a cluster of infections at a nightclub and have delayed the opening of schools another week in response.
I think South Korea is providing a good example (now….as compared to a few months back when they were providing a bad example by not stoping travel)
for other parts of the world to be prepared for cluster infections as people get back to work and their some what normal routines.
https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20200511003755315?section=national/national
This of course won’t stop the left from screaming when these virtually inevitable clusters appear, pretending that everyone claimed the disease would be over in two weeks.
So… you watched a sub-committee meeting with all the scientists testifying… and when Bernie’s turn comes up.. his “mug”… you turned it off…. because you didn’t like his mug (because it looked dumb?), his message, nor have any interest at all in the substance of the proceedings, declaring it all an “outrage theater”. Certainly your choice, of course. Rather tells me your limit in trying to think objectively.
Just like a Trump supporter to not listen to anyone other than Trump. And I’M obsessed??
Actually there was a prediction I made that came true.
I started my blog on January 21, 2017 with the idea that Trump was already demonstrated incompetent for the job… and I had copious mental practitioners cited, with their theories to support. His mental imbalance continues to this day. In those early days I indicated that our national divide would get worse, and that the country was inevitably going to encounter some very deep troubles.. and things were going to get far worse down the line. Of course no one could predict the likes of a pandemic… but I did indicate Trump’s complete inability to handle any sort of a national crisis… and here we are. 🙂
So.. as it relates to predicting his sad (for the country) performance in general and enhancing our political divide and being the laughing stock of the world.. hence our loss of prestige… I’ve been pretty much right.
Just like a Trump supporter to not listen to anyone other than Trump. And I’M obsessed??
I actually was kind of middle of the road before our interaction here.
Now I’m much more convinced.
You’re really doing the Republican party’s work for them.
You on the payroll?
@Liz
Shhhhhhhh!!!!! Doug has TDS. So, he is already mentally unstable. No telling what he will do to himself if he learns he is helping Trump.
Sorry, you’re right Citizen Tom.
I’m sure an unbiased person would’ve just kept on listening, knowing that any objective person could find some nugget of truth beyond whatever soundbite.
I’m weird that way.
I also delete e mails from self-described Nigerian princes.
It might be a real prince….wanting me to give him money so he could give me more money (or something like that).
But I’ll just delete and take my chances of missing out on that good stuff.
Well, a picture is worth a thousand words and we have a model of projection versus reality here:
There are a number of reasons Sweden is not the US….but then we also have Georgia to go by (think it has been three weeks now and the curve continues to go down).
Cost to gains/risk analysis wise (per Doug, above) there are risks to going outside one’s home.
There are risks to continue the downward cycle of crushing the economy too.
Who do we sue for the crushed economy?
You might consider going after Trump for not listening to Obama during the transition, and earlier… and being slow to respond to intel in January… even though Trump is not the cause of the outbreak itself.
You all seem to fail to realize that in general whatever state has a downward trend is a result of the stay-at-home shutdown. Open everything up will just expose people again. You also are unable to comprehend human nature in economics. There’s going to be no rush to buy things because people will stay home to avoid the risk.. and/or.. not spend money in expectation of another shutdown.
As I told Tom.. you have NO idea what you are talking about, nor do I, and we already know Trump has no comprehension of anything in general. I choose to have faith in science and the ingenuity of American domestic production and distribution in the next few months. Even if we could open up the entire country and people had faith to resume their former economic habits.. it’s still going to take years to recover.
But.. please feel free to continue to deny based on politics.
Slow to respond to intel….but not nearly as slow as the “scientists” and “experts” at the CDC and WHO.
If he’d taken Obama’s advice, he would have had waited a lot longer for the shutdown. He would have waited for the CDC and WHO to change their guidelines to approve the shut down. That this isn’t patently obvious to you beggars belief.
Right now masks for pilots are obligatory.
Two months ago they were forbidden.
We know how germs are spread. I suggest if you believe in suing everyone into submission you stay indoors Doug and let others go to work.
@Doug
You may have perfect comprehension, but I think you are missing an important detail.
We can all stop working, and nobody will ever get sick again. Perfect plan. Everyone stops eating, and we all starve.
I just don’t think starving is a good solution. It is a solution, but it is not a good solution.
I don’ recall anyone suggesting “stop working” forever… but we certainly can give it more than 8 weeks.. as I am sure the economy limping along as it is will be workable. Apparently 80% of the workforce remains employed and while less millionaires and billionaires are being created there IS an economy functioning. Congress and Trump needs to support the displaced economy for longer than they think.
We get a decent test that’s actually accurate and free and open for continued use we could then get friends and family together.
@Doug
Pelosi wants to spend another two trillion. That is just printing money. We will wreck our currency. Many businesses cannot sustain being shutdown this long much less longer. And you want them shut down why?
You want a perfect solution? There is no such thing. There are only optimal solutions. In this case we protect the vulnerable, and we let the people who are at little risk work. There is no reason — show me one — to keep people at little risk from working.
This is America. Here — because we have the right and because we know glorious leaders don’t make great decisions anyway — we each make our own choices and suffer the consequences. If we want to take the risk, we ought to be left peace and allowed to decide if we want to go back to work.
Will most people go back to work just because they cannot afford not to? Of course, but we cannot afford this shut down either. If most people cannot afford it individually, we cannot afford it as a nation. We can just print money and pretend that money is actually worth something.
@Liz
Doug. Let’s sue Doug.
Have you given any thought to the immense.. and I mean IMMENSE… legal jeopardy that’s going to come from this as employers pass the virus around the workplace because the protections were not enough… or businesses passing the virus around to customers…. and the deaths mount up? The more testing and subsequent tracing is going to be able to assign blame.
You said you just got out of the hospital. I hope all went well, but one has to assume you must have been scared to near death for fear of catching this virus.. and it’s been less than two weeks since you got out, are you going to get passively tested after two weeks to see if you are a carrier? I am guessing you can’t just wander into a facility and say “Gimmie a test.” And do you blame and then sue the hospital if you get it?
Sorry Tom.. it’s going to be a brave new world.. and customers are not going to be flocking back into buying things for fears they better save the cash because it looks like we will have to go back to shutting things down again.
This is the absolute fact you cannot deny, Tom. You have NO idea what you are talking about because you simply do not know. The Trump bunch has absolutely no idea what’s going on. The scientists have only limited theories. And the only thing feeding your opinion on all this is your conspiratorial Conservative political bias.
That being said.. I certainly don’t know anything either… other than I can see for myself Trump is continuing to descend the country into the pits of his self-idiocy.
@Doug
I am well aware of the fact that lawsuits are a problem.
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=K01
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trial-lawyer-industry-tries-to-buy-a-democratic-majority
I can also tell you why. Still, if people don’t go back to way, lots of us will be hungry, including some lawyers.
Ever heard the phrase: monkey see monkey do. If people go back to work and start collecting a paycheck, others will imitate them.
When we go back to work, will more people get sick? Probably. However, if we make an effort to protect the elderly, few will die.
Life is a struggle. This is a fallen world. Even in what we call normal times people die. What we are experiencing now is a bump in the death rate. Irrational fear does not help. If we hide in our homes, we will just make the problem worse. Is there a lot of irrational fear? I suppose there is. Does that mean I don’t have any idea what I am talking about? Do I have to be irrational to understand how people can be irrationally afraid?
No. Do I have a Conservative bias? Yes. Does that make me a conspiracy theorist? No. I never called the never trump movement a conspiracy. I just think Liberal Democrats are nutty enough to try to stifle economic growth in order to hurt td