YOU HAVE REDEEMED ME, O LORD GOD OF TRUTH


What is this post about? The importance of the Truth. Let’s start with a quote from the Bible.

Deuteronomy 32:3-4 New King James Version (NKJV)

For I proclaim the name of the Lord:
Ascribe greatness to our God.
He is the Rock, His work is perfect;
For all His ways are justice,
A God of truth and without injustice;
Righteous and upright is He.

Without the Truth, what is justice? Without the Truth, how can we determine what is just? If the concept of justice — if the word justice — is to have any meaning, then we must know the Truth. Instead of each of us making our own Truth, the Truth must an objective reality, of God Himself.

Consider the crime of robbery. When a thief robs a man, and a man finds the one who robbed him, what must that man do to get his property back? He must be able to show that that property belongs to him in truth. Otherwise, the thief will proclaim that in his reality that property belongs to him, that he possesses it, therefore, that property is his.

Consider another example. What is a man? What is a woman? Why do Christians adamantly reject that  social construct, “gender identity”, and insist that our sexual identity is determined biologically at conception? The concept of gender identity is a device designed to reject the truth. When he quotes Rod Dreher, this is the point Everett Piper makes.

“At the heart of these issues about sexuality and gender are some core principles about the relationship of the body to the metaphysical order, and what it means to be a human being … [If we] don’t recognize that, then [we] are confused about first principles. To give LGBT activists and progressive allies what they want — total affirmation — is to affirm that they are correct about the body, and about human nature. This is something that [I am not] willing to do. To be a Christian means that you believe, as the Bible teaches, that man is made in the image of God. This is at the root of human dignity. This necessarily means that human nature is given. It is not created by us; it is created by God and given to us. We either receive it or we don’t. As Christians, we cannot believe that we have permission to create ourselves in our own desired image.” (from here (washingtontimes.com))

What was the sin of Adam and Eve? Did they not want to be God? Didn’t they take that first bite of the forbidden fruit because they wanted to recreate themselves as gods? Are not our egos still that huge? Don’t we each wish we could stamp our own image upon all creation?

So what is the LGBT agenda? It is sinners trying justify themselves, trying to make what they want to believe “true”. It is just one more departure from Truth, the lie that sex is “love”, and “love” defines the truth of our sexual identity.

At its start proponents of the 60’s sexual revolution based their movement upon scientific propaganda. Don’t think so? Then consider the absurd propaganda the crony capitalist news media is peddling now, ‘Conservative Obama,’ pregnant men and other liberal media fantasies (washingtontimes.com) by Robert Knight.

What sets our current age apart from previous ones is not only technological wonders but the shocking abandonment of truth.

For Marxists, a lie is as good as truth if it works to advance their cause. A case in point was a recent nearly full-page article on the front page of The Washington Post’s Sunday Outlook section. Next to a large, serious portrait, the headline proclaimed: “Barack Obama: Conservative.” Sure. And Bernie Sanders is a moderate Republican.

Never mind that Mr. Obama was the most radically leftist president in U.S. history, with a background full of Communist mentors and connections. He appointed so many wackos to federal judgeships that our battered republic will be feeling the effects for years.

There is method to The Post’s madness. If you can make the case that Mr. Obama was actually something of a conservative, this pushes anyone to his right into the abyss of extremism. It doesn’t matter whether it’s true or not, only whether it succeeds in casting Republicans and even dwindling moderate Democrats as Nazis. (here (washingtontimes.com))

The notion that former President Barack Obama is a Conservative is too rich for Knight to avoid mentioning it, but he moves on in his column to point out the lies being told about the gender identity of human beings. He also points out that these lies are more than just philosophical issues.

This is child abuse on a massive scale. When an entire generation is taught that truth is subjective, and that the only god they should heed is their feelings, they’ll fall for anything.  (here (washingtontimes.com))

When we cannot discern the difference between our desires and the Truth, we are blind. We cannot protect ourselves from our own impetuosity. Worse, when we refuse to know the Truth, we cannot repent of our sins and turn to God for salvation.

How did we get into this mess? We can trace the tale back to Adam and Eve, but the current generation has also failed. We failed to teach our children and grandchildren the Truth and about the God of the Truth. We did the easy thing. Instead of confronting the Truth about God so that we could help our children learn the Truth, we let politicians secularize the education of our children. We tried to hide from the Truth.

There is still time, at least for those of us who still live. We can repent, ask for the forgiveness of our Lord and beg for the salvation of our souls. We can also pity and pray for those blind souls who refuse to repent and persist in their lies. When they demand “justice” and threaten believers with “no peace”, we can remind them that without the Truth there can be no justice, that there is no peace.

Isaiah 57:19-21New King James Version (NKJV)

19 “I create the fruit of the lips:
Peace, peace to him who is far off and to him who is near,”
Says the Lord,
“And I will heal him.”
20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea,
When it cannot rest,
Whose waters cast up mire and dirt.

21 Thereis no peace,”
Says my God, “for the wicked.”

For a good laugh, see Barack Obama, conservative (washingtonpost.com).

28 thoughts on “YOU HAVE REDEEMED ME, O LORD GOD OF TRUTH

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  1. Tom,

    Rereading your post and comments brought to mind another King Solomon wisdom proverbial warning that applies to your argument, in my opinion.

    Do not remove the boundary markers which have always been there, those which your ancestors fixed. (Proverb 28)

    Comments made about political changes which imply that the changes are better is a problem needing wisdom to discern.

    Wisdom to understand what boundary is being moved is wise or foolish. Or in other words if the ancient boundary was based on wisdom or folly.

    How to discern the differences requires a boundary marker being placed on a firm foundation?

    We know how fallible men are and always have been to either commit sin or folly based on history of events.

    What we are experiencing once again is man believing they no more than their Creator.

    Or when our Creator made a decision to allow us to procreate, he gave us a boundary to either be a man or a woman, each with a purpose in life.

    When someone decides to believe his Creator made a mistake, the someone has decided that he knows more than his Creator.

    Or, in other words, he or she has decided to remove the boundaries the ancient wise men of the past discerned was foolish to cross over by a person during their path in life.

    As the ancient philosopher’s comment, “know thyself” meaning has changed over time to have different meanings or interpretations that become meaningless same as boundaries that continually change.

    So how can we discern what is a wise or foolish interpretation of “know thyself?”

    In my opinion, there are some simple clues.

    For example, if having sex results in a risk of obtaining a deadly disease such as HIV or Aids or a STD, it means simply engaging in the act that causes a person to risk shortening his lifespan is not a wise boundary to cross.

    As for why humans decide to believe their Creator made a mistake in the birth sex organs, in my opinion, they need to seek to find spiritual wisdom of what “know thyself” instead of choosing one of the various changed human interpretations explained in a Wikipedia article “know thyself”

    Or in other words, if choosing a path that is going to risk making you sick and die, it is a foolish choice, in my opinion.

    Of course, it is my opinion, and I am nothing more than one more human subject to not understanding all the mysteries only God knows. For example, why some humans are born with both male and female sex organs?

    As for what sex we are, I say, simply look in the mirror and “know thyself” is to accept God’s choice of the sexual path you were born to follow on your path in life.

    Regards and goodwill blogging.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_thyself

    Liked by 1 person

  2. The human reality Tom is highlighted by these words “Girls will be boys and boys will be girls. It’s a mixed up shook up world” as the famous Lola song is performed by the Kinks and it is spot on.

    Human nature regarding anything has never been a black or white issue, who knows exactly what turns a stable persons mind to do atrocities or unpredictable things when our lives are full of complex life experiences and dark memories? Even while human biological knowledge and neuroscience has advanced so far over the last two hundred years it can often explain only so much.

    It is simply having to face the facts that society has moved forwards in terms of minority groups, equality and morals and as with everything in life nothing stays the same, we keep evolving as humans and we keep advancing in knowledge and progress into another chapter of life.

    The Bible with all its information simply has it totally wrong about sexuality because it is a well-known scientific fact that it is not a simple black and white question as it was perceived to be thousands of years ago.

    I understand how hard it is for theists to have to think outside of the Bible, however it has been done on numerous issues and it needs to be considered again by those that can adapt to the 21st century.

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    1. @sklyjd

      😙 Such inestimable wisdom! It is just evolutionary change. We just need to adapt. I feel so much better.😉

      Is it good change or bad change? Should we just accept all politically correct changes without comment, even if those changes are justified with falsehoods? Are we obligated to try to understand the consequences of our actions, or is it okay just to do whatever we want because it feels good? Can’t we always make excuses and provide cool rationalizations if things don’t turn out well? After all, didn’t we say we had good intentions?

      So what if government approved “experts” butcher a child with sex change operations? What’s the problem? After all, isn’t that child a hero, a leader at the bleeding edge of historically inevitable evolutionary progress?

      Still, is it not strange how the historically inevitable forward march of evolutionary progress has left so many dead bodies and corrupt and failed states in its wake? Is it possible the godless masterminds in charge of these projects just like the power and don’t have our best interests in mind?

      Liked by 2 people

      1. “Should we just accept all politically correct changes without comment,”

        Of course nobody does Tom, we all have opinions and beliefs, however something will win out in the end, the changes will happen regardless of minority resistance and maybe in a hundred years they will again change.

        “or is it okay just to do whatever we want because it feels good?”

        How can you know what goes on in the brain of a person, what background, what influences have made their mark? People do not just decide to change sex because it feels good or go into a school with an automatic firearm it is not that simple, if it was we could prevent such fanatical ideals.
        Like everything a person believes, it is an emotion that primarily drives them, just like suicide, love, hate, political and religious beliefs.

        “So what if government approved “experts” butcher a child with sex change operations? What’s the problem?”

        Each case I would expect to be psychologically assessed. What would you decide if your 16 year old son was depressed and had attempted to take his own life due to a sexuality disorder and you had tried everything possible and the last option was a sex change operation?

        Would you despise your son or try to keep him alive? So if he still commits suicide or is still depressed, you at least did your best to provide a happy life for your son and your duty as a father.

        “Still, is it not strange how the historically inevitable forward march of evolutionary progress has left so many dead bodies and corrupt and failed states in its wake?”

        Everything comes at a cost, look at Christianity, how many dead bodies, wars and misery was caused since it originated, we move forward regardless of godless or god fearing minds?

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        1. @sklyjd

          Do you ever listen to yourself? You are full of self contradictions.

          How can you know what goes on in the brain of a person, what background, what influences have made their mark? People do not just decide to change sex because it feels good or go into a school with an automatic firearm it is not that simple, if it was we could prevent such fanatical ideals.

          Like everything a person believes, it is an emotion that primarily drives them, just like suicide, love, hate, political and religious beliefs.

          “Gender identity” is an imaginary thing. You don’t believe in God, but you believe in gender identity? That would be funny if it was not so harmful.

          Our biological sex is observable, and we cannot change it. We can only put camouflage over it. You believe in camouflage more than the reality underneath it. Try that on a battlefield, and you will find yourself dead.

          Giving a child drugs or performing a sex change operation on a child is just plain sick. By definition a child is not ready to make such a decision. Given that your own words are true, we cannot know what is going on in the head of someone suffering gender dysphoria disorder. What we do know is that a child will most likely grow out of the disorder.

          Given we don’t we want to do more harm than good, even using government funds to finance such idiot nonsense as gender transition surgery for an adult is wrong. It is akin to helping a suicidal adult walk off a cliff to help them feel better. Taking a word of someone who is not making any sense that hurting themselves will make them feel better is just plain dumb. Equating it with some kind of bloody struggle for progress does not make it any less idiotic.

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          1. “Gender identity” is an imaginary thing. You don’t believe in God, but you believe in gender identity?”

            Oh come on Tom, these can both be called imaginary if you want to travel that road. These people passionately believe and emotionally embrace their changed gender as reality, similar to your commitment and emotional belief in your God or the passion you have for a political organisation.

            “Our biological sex is observable, and we cannot change it.”

            Granted, however it is not our bodies that decide what we are and how we feel it is our brains. Like I have explained, the social background, childhood, the stress of life, financial scammers, life experiences, political and religious influences and social media are just some of the pressures that modern generations are dealing with. More people are identifying as homosexuals, lesbians, paedophiles and transvestites, also more people are committing suicide or atrocities than they did, all this stuff is due to their mental state often identified by genetic variation and heredity.

            “Giving a child drugs or performing a sex change operation on a child is just plain sick. By definition a child is not ready to make such a decision.”

            Who is brave enough to stand up in front of a depressed and possibly a suicidal teenager or adult who wants to change gender, or they have the inclination to want to murder a classroom of kids or rape a girl, become a nymphomaniac or desire hard drugs and they are reaching to you to do something about it? Do you tell them to simply snap out of it? Or do you do whatever is medically, socially and physically possible to relieve their pain?

            I may also point out that your argument is also relevant regarding the definition of age for a child to make a decision when they are indoctrinated into an adult ideological belief such as religion, often they will be circumcised or de-clitorised.

            “What we do know is that a child will most likely grow out of the disorder.”

            Most children, 80% according to some older studies I found do not continue gender dysphoria into puberty and this is when personal identities begin to form and develop.

            I will acknowledge that criminal capitalistic fundamentalists are at play in many cases just as the cosmetic, drug and abortion businesses and these crooks will urge for the treatments as young as they can prior to puberty however parents will need to give authority for drugs and surgery to take place in most developed countries and we can only hope that they make the right decisions for the love and future of their child.

            This stuff sounds idiotic to most of us, however butt implants, lip and breast enhancement, penis enlargement, vagina tightening, nose adjustments and many hundreds of body part surgical reductions or changes take place every day and that sound absolutely idiotic to many people, however it is the sign of the times. One day you will enter a clinic as a young skinny spotty male and come out the other side as Kim Kardashian 😊

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          2. @sklyjd

            As I said before, you are full of self contradictions. You hound me for believing in God, but you are okay with people just choosing their sex because of their feelings? 🙄

            Contrary to your assertions, we have logical reasons to believe in God. Philosophers can provide logical arguments for God’s existence. We also have facts such as the fact that hundreds of people witnessed both Jesus’ execution and return from the dead. You don’t believe? No one is twisting your arm. So get over it.

            When someone who exhibits all the features of a particular sex and claims to feel they are a member of the opposite sex, however, we don’t any logical reason to believe them. We also don’t have any reason they won’t change their mind about their feelings. Feelings are not facts. Feelings are not based in logic.

            Like I have explained, the social background, childhood, the stress of life, financial scammers, life experiences, political and religious influences and social media are just some of the pressures that modern generations are dealing with. More people are identifying as homosexuals, lesbians, paedophiles and transvestites, also more people are committing suicide or atrocities than they did, all this stuff is due to their mental state often identified by genetic variation and heredity.

            How is a sex change operation going to fix any of that?

            Think about what someone who wants a sex change wants, a sex change? In other words, that person wants to alter their sex, male to female or female to male. The entire premise of such a change is that the person who wants the change refuses to accept the fact of their biological sex. Therefore, why does anyone have to argue that gender identity is imaginary whereas biological sex is reality?

            Even if gender identity has some merit (which is doubtful), we don’t have the means alter the genetic code that way. What we can do is change the appearance, not the reality. Heaven help us if we ever get the capacity to alter the genetic code to that extent. It is a cinch we don’t have the capacity to use such knowledge wisely.

            Who is brave enough to stand up in front of a depressed and possibly a suicidal teenager or adult who wants to change gender, or they have the inclination to want to murder a classroom of kids or rape a girl, become a nymphomaniac or desire hard drugs and they are reaching to you to do something about it? Do you tell them to simply snap out of it? Or do you do whatever is medically, socially and physically possible to relieve their pain?

            Some people need to be institutionalized. If someone wants to commit mass murder to relieve their pain, are you going to give them a gun? Well, what you are proposing is tantamount to that.

            If an adult want to use their own money to pay for cosmetic surgery, that is their problem. When someone has been disfigured in an accident or by an accident of nature, cosmetic surgery may even have merit. No one wants their appearance so marred that their most recognizable feature is a blemish, but a sex change does not “fix” anything. It just sterilizes the recipient, which if you don’t want these people reproducing….. Well, you are the advocate, not me.

            All parents have the right to instruct their children in their beliefs. This is a fundamental right, part of what the free exercise of religion (see the First Amendment: https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/bill-of-rights-transcript). You don’t like it? It is because of people like you that we have a Bill of Rights.

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          3. “Contrary to your assertions, we have logical reasons to believe in God. Philosophers can provide logical arguments for God’s existence. We also have facts such as the fact that hundreds of people witnessed both Jesus’ execution and return from the dead.”

            What you mean is your logical reasons for believing in God is due solely to your faith in the Bible and in philosophers and apologetics who speculate. Claim anything you like, but the fact remains that you have nothing more than faith.

            “When someone who exhibits all the features of a particular sex and claims to feel they are a member of the opposite sex, however, we don’t any logical reason to believe them. We also don’t have any reason they won’t change their mind about their feelings. Feelings are not facts. Feelings are not based in logic.”

            Of course they also have faith, same as you, complete trust or confidence that they are supposed to have been the opposite sex. Their feelings reflect an emotional state or reaction, just as theists do. Many do not change their minds and it was obviously logical for them to convert to the opposite sex. Nobody knows the mind of another. The sex change or any bodily surgery such as breast reductions or enhancements may alleviate depression, self-harm and various mental issues. These issues are far too complex to just brush off as not based on logic.

            “Therefore, why does anyone have to argue that gender identity is imaginary whereas biological sex is reality?”

            I don’t, biological sex is a reality, so are mental issues, faulty genes, indoctrination etc. Even animals have shown to be sexually confused.

            “Some people need to be institutionalized. If someone wants to commit mass murder to relieve their pain, are you going to give them a gun? Well, what you are proposing is tantamount to that.”

            Ok maybe it was not clear, I was suggesting when these people reach out for help you do what is humanly possible to help them through institutions, drugs, psychological help and surgery to name a few.

            “but a sex change does not “fix” anything. It just sterilizes the recipient,”

            So say you, the same can be said for God. How can you dictate anything you know nothing about? Me an advocate? I understand the huge differences in humans, do you not see this?
            I understand that people believe in gods, a flat Earth and in extreme political views, all with a passion. I am a man and if someone discussed becoming a woman with me and I thought I could change their mind I would, however this person’s brain is totally different to mine.

            “All parents have the right to instruct their children in their beliefs”

            That is quite alright to hide behind your Bill of Rights, the gun nuts use The Second Amendment all the time. Both were written hundreds of years ago without modern knowledge and foresight.
            Instructing as in making the children aware of adult ideologies is one thing, indoctrination is another. Manipulating a young undeveloped child’s mind is ethically wrong.

            “It is because of people like you that we have a Bill of Rights.”

            It is because of people like you we have atheists.

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          4. @sklyjd

            What are the various different religions all about, including Atheism. They are different systems and different ways of finding happiness. Each religion offers its own truths, and each offers its own means for dealing with the “Truth”.

            Aristotle approached the problem of finding happiness with logic. He observed long ago that we find happiness in the pursuit of virtue. Happiness resides in the knowledge we have done what we should have done.

            How do we know what we should do? How do we know what is virtuous and what is not? This is where faith comes in. We experiment and test different beliefs, and we find out what works. We develop “faith” in — trust in — what we have found to work after repeated testing. Without such testing, our faith is meaningless.

            Should each generation begin the process of establishing what beliefs they should put their faith in all anew? Should we burn all our books every 20 years and reestablish Science every 20 years? That would be kind of stupid. So, the answer is no. That is why we pass on our scientific, political, and religious beliefs to our children. That is why we transfer our culture to our children. We don’t want our children to begin their lives as savages. We want them to begin their lives with some understanding of what it means to be virtuous.

            You don’t like the belief in God? Well, that is your prerogative, and I will fight for your right to be so foolish and wrong. Do I expect you to reciprocate? No. Many, Atheists included, don’t have that sort of faith. However, once we believe in the God of the Bible we begin to realize we should do certain things just because He wants us to love our neighbors and protect their God-given rights. Because God is love, love is the chief virtue.

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          5. “How do we know what we should do? How do we know what is virtuous and what is not?”

            Tom, Aristotle is correct the virtue, happiness and the seeking of truth for ourselves is in all of us, however it takes many different forms, some that would be logical to one person would be directly opposite to someone else. Hindsight is a luxury none of us have and I would say all of us would make at least one major decision they regret during their lifetime of a half dozen decades or more, I know I have made far more than one.

            “We experiment and test different beliefs, and we find out what works.”

            Not many would do such a thing, I think the first and often the only choice of the theocracy, religion or cult is within the community and traditions of your family. I understand the strong resentment against people who have rejected what is seen as the normal and truthful ideology.

            “Should each generation begin the process of establishing what beliefs they should put their faith in all anew?”

            Certainly yes, if the religion is as good as the followers always claim, let it stand on it’s own two feet. Not only that, it is the fundamental right of a child to be able to decide what they want to believe when they are of a responsible age, just like an adult.

            “Should we burn all our books every 20 years and reestablish Science every 20 years?”

            Keep the religious books, afterall they have not changed for thousands of years, however science is re-establishing itself all the time, it changes and adapts as knowledge increases. Mans thirst for knowledge is something that cannot be harnessed unless you live in a suppressive regime such as a theocracy, military rule or a dictatorship.

            “That is why we pass on our scientific, political, and religious beliefs to our children. That is why we transfer our culture to our children. We don’t want our children to begin their lives as savages”

            Passing this or anything on to children is okay, if it is passed on as an ideological system it is wrong and equates to brain washing or indoctrination. This would take the form of repetitious teaching involving a doctrine, pledges, prayers, quotes and ideals from revered people, spiritual and political readings, meetings and traditions.

            “Savages?” I would say this is overly dramatic and simplistic, if born into the law of the African jungle and never saw a human for 30 years maybe we would grow to be wild and savage like some of our criminals, however the powerful human brain has evolved with survival skills and one of those is socialising, exactly as any animal on Earth, therefore we would adapt very quickly to the friendliness and life style of other humans.

            “once we believe in the God of the Bible we begin to realize we should do certain things just because He wants us to love our neighbors and protect their God-given rights. Because God is love, love is the chief virtue.”

            I agree, your belief in God is exactly what you feel it stands for. Atheists simply understand a god of any kind is not required for us to protect our neighbours support our human rights, our secular freedom and to love each other. Faith in spiritual beings is not required for any part of our lives.

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          6. @sklyjd

            What you say want is a suppression of religious belief. Supposedly, it is child abuse to teach a child the religious beliefs of that child’s parents. What would that mean in practice? Children would be indoctrinated in Secular Humanism, which is a religious belief.

            How are you trying to convey your beliefs? By improperly using words? That’s the way it seems to me.

            If I ran the world, I suppose I would be tempted to take away people’s license to rant until they learned to use words to communicate instead of as bludgeons.

            The words ideology, brainwashing, and indoctrination don’t mean what you think they mean.

            Because they were full of themselves, Napoleon Bonaparte and Karl Marx were the first people to ridicule their opponents as ideologists or ideologues. See the addendum on this post (https://citizentom.com/2014/03/08/swearing-fealty/#more-23402) and this National Review article (https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/conservatism-in-defense-of-ideology/).

            Brainwashing is brutal torture, not just teaching children beliefs you don’t agree with.

            Indoctrination is instruction in a doctrine, not brutal torture. Indoctrination occurs in almost every classroom. We teach our children different doctrines because we want them to believe certain things about those doctrines. We are all partisans to some extent.

            When we raise our children, we have to teach them something. If we pretend we are wholly objective, we are just lying. So, we teach our children what we know and what we believe about we know; we indoctrinate them in our beliefs.

            If we also teach our children to love each other, to take joy in life, how to learn and enjoy the process of discovery, then they can build upon what we have given them. If we teach our children God is love, that there is no fear in His perfect love, then they will pursue the discovery of the Truth unafraid.

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          7. “Children would be indoctrinated in Secular Humanism, which is a religious belief.”

            If you do not understand the definition of a religion now Tom you never will. I do not need to reiterate what it means and you have obviously no clues as to the secular and atheist thinking.
            You live your life in a strong emotional commitment to your God and a particular religious ideology with the express command to convert atheists. Atheists do not have any such commitments, atheists do not worship or spend any time being subservient to any gods or deities, atheists can believe whatever they like, no books, no doctrine, life goes on without the threat of eternal hell. Atheists do not send their kids to the Hitchens atheist school or the church and Sunday school of secularists for study of atheist doctrine, because none exist, and most atheists do not spend untold time indoctrinating children with anti-religious preaching.

            Most kids take a passing interest in their parents and families beliefs until they are old enough to appreciate what it means such as in their mid-teenage years when they can decide on their own. My daughter went to church for certain children’s events with a family of friends over 7 to 12 years of age and eventually she decided it was not for her, I had no concerns, I respected her wishes to go to this church and I know she was not strongly coerced into believing either way. Of course as I am not a worshipper of any kind and her mother was a Catholic she had a young foot in each door.

            “The words ideology, brainwashing, and indoctrination don’t mean what you think they mean.”

            Pardon, I don’t? If you have a better grasp than the English dictionaries (from England) please enlighten me.

            “Indoctrination is instruction in a doctrine, not brutal torture. Indoctrination occurs in almost every classroom.”

            “Brutal torture” this I did not say or infer, possibly brain washing is not the correct term here but indoctrination is, and it is about manipulating minds and often involves uncritical and emotional beliefs in ideologies or doctrines. Maybe in the US they indoctrinate children in the classrooms, but in Australia we educate our children with knowledge, if a public school were to indoctrinate children with politics, social issues and religious beliefs they would be sacked and never teach children again.

            “So, we teach our children what we know and what we believe about we know; we indoctrinate them in our beliefs.”

            Yes teaching and indoctrination are different, indoctrination starts out as teaching but goes much further than that. Respect of your children’s right to make their choices in life will not be helped if they are indoctrinated into an adults beliefs. Some American families make their kids pray every day, at every meal and bedtime, attend Bible studies, weekly church attendance, church events and apply an education at home or at a religious school. Therefore, how can most children ever have the freedom to think and choose for themselves if this is the normal situation from 5 years old until school leaving age? Sure it is good to keep up the numbers in any given church, but is it ethical?

            “If we also teach our children to love each other, to take joy in life, how to learn and enjoy the process of discovery, then they can build upon what we have given them.”

            Love is a natural human emotion, not exclusive to religions. Joy and happiness does not have to involve spiritual beings, it is natural that kids will find out about God especially as it is so prevalent in your society. If kids are interested they will latch on as they grow up just like anything else, but it must come naturally without pressure, and of course there is always the risk of children rejecting any such beliefs if they are expected to conform.

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          8. @sklyjd

            Look at what you wrote. You are preaching your doctrine, your system of belief. That is what an ideology is all about. Some ideologies are good. Some are not. Your ideology has problems.

            You would indoctrinate other people’s children your way into your religious beliefs (or beliefs about religion, which comes down to just about the same thing).

            Because you are so positive you are so right, you think you have the right to force your religious beliefs upon other people’s children. That sort of unbridled arrogance is why we have wars over religious beliefs. What makes you different from an eighth century Muslim threatening death to unbelievers? You think you are right? So did those Muslims.

            Why don’t I feel compelled to force my belief on you? The answer is that God only commands Christians to spread the Gospel. We baptize and disciple new believers, but people have to be born again in the Holy Spirit before they believe. That is God’s work, not man’s.

            Do all Christians believe conversion must be voluntary, with God’s involvement? It is in the Bible. We have freedom of religion in the United States. Unfortunately, people are not perfect. So we have a public school system that now promotes secularism. Ironically, one reason the public school system exists is that some Protestants saw public schools as the fastest way to deter the spread of Catholic schools. Did that ever backfire!

            The people who now seem most determined to spread their “religious belief” do so by forcing what they define as religious belief out of the public sphere. These are Secular Humanists, people whose religious beliefs involve denying the existence of God. Funny how that works.

            Logically, no one can prove God does not exist. So, there is no practical reason for pressuring parents to send their children to secularized schools. Trying to equate instruction in religious belief with child abuse is just Atheistic extremism. Given the violence of Atheistic regimes, I don’t have high hopes for a peaceful solution. So I pray.

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          9. “Look at what you wrote. You are preaching your doctrine, your system of belief. That is what an ideology is all about. Some ideologies are good. Some are not. Your ideology has problems.”

            Wow, you really have it messed up. What doctrine? Ok, no gods exist, that is the total of atheist ideology. Ideology from Google means a system of ideas and ideals. Atheism is not a system of ideas it has a disbelief in gods and is ground zero, the default status of humans, no belief and no comprehension or recognition of gods, but of course it is disbelief in gods when you are confronted by people claiming they are real and the horrible futures in hell are an atheists fate. What problems do we have for having total disbelief in your claims?

            “You would indoctrinate other people’s children your way into your religious beliefs”
            “Because you are so positive you are so right, you think you have the right to force your religious beliefs upon other people’s children. That sort of unbridled arrogance is why we have wars over religious beliefs. What makes you different from an eighth century Muslim threatening death to unbelievers? You think you are right? So did those Muslims.”

            Sorry but I think you have gone off at the rails at the deep end Tom, my ideals have nothing to do with causing religious wars or threatening death to anyone like those ancient Muslims. I really cannot see how you can equate this to anything we are discussing, you like to try and turn the truth around about child indoctrination, but the facts are the facts, this is your desperate attack on atheism in an attempt to defend the indefensible.

            “So we have a public school system that now promotes secularism.”

            I guess you mean by this that they teach science, real science about biological evolution, global warming, the big bang and the real age of the Earth.

            “Protestants saw public schools as the fastest way to deter the spread of Catholic schools. Did that ever backfire!.”

            This did not happen in real democratic countries, for example we have governments that provided education in exchange for income taxes, no wonder your political and religious societies are so intertwined and always at each other’s throats. We do not have the problems that you do and that is just as well, because we still have a great education, health and welfare system as do most developed nations that are based on secular values, unlike yourselves.

            “Logically, no one can prove God does not exist.”

            Just as over thousands of years there is no evidence to establish any gods have ever existed.

            “Trying to equate instruction in religious belief with child abuse is just Atheistic extremism. Given the violence of Atheistic regimes, I don’t have high hopes for a peaceful solution. So I pray.”

            Yes you have gone full circle in you defence of your faith Tom, communism is the best you can do for your atheist condemnation. If you only could understand that communism and fascism are political systems and atheistic practices were only a small part of the ideology, but theists with knee jerk defences never do. Similar to an atheist reverting to the claims that Hitler was a Catholic and Stalin was raised as a Christian and studied to be a priest if you want to go down that very worn and battered road. I also hope the world stays peaceful.

            Like

          10. @sklyjd

            Now you are just making a bunch of denials, but all anyone has to do is read what you wrote. You are preaching a doctrine, your precious dogma of Atheism. It is silly to deny it.

            You don’t have any ideas and beliefs. Your ideas are not organized in some way. Frankly, in your effort to prove Atheism is not a religion, you Atheists make yourselves sound all the more idiotic.

            This latest cracks me up.

            This did not happen in real democratic countries, for example we have governments that provided education in exchange for income taxes, no wonder your political and religious societies are so intertwined and always at each other’s throats. We do not have the problems that you do and that is just as well, because we still have a great education, health and welfare system as do most developed nations that are based on secular values, unlike yourselves.

            We have over 300 million people here, and this is largely peaceful and prosperous country, but anything that happens here is news. Of course, CNN and the like make it sound far worse than it is.

            The United States is a constitutional republic, not a democratic country. The people who framed our Constitution understood the danger of mob rule. To Aristotle and the founders of our nation, calling someone a democrat was just another way of saying that guy is the member of a mob. Majoritarian tyranny is still tyranny, and majoritarian tyranny eventually degenerates into one-man rule.

            When a powerful faction forms and threatens mob rule, our Constitution kicks in, and the unruly democrats get mad. People don’t like being told no. The Democratic Party (name says it all) doesn’t like being told no, and for the last hundred years those democrats have been fomenting mob rule. God help us!

            The public processes of a republic are not pretty, pretty like Nazism and Communism (which quietly sweeps the opposition into death camps), but our republic has worked as well as anything else people have contrived. It won’t work forever, but we still don’t have any death camps.

            The United States invented the idea of secular government; however, our founders never conceived of secularizing public life. They only intended to prohibit our government from establishing a state religion and infringing upon the free exercise of religion. As usual, some people have taken an otherwise good idea to absurd extremes. For what it worth, you have my sympathy.

            Was Atheism a small part of Nazism and Communism? No. We get the government we deserve.

            The rulers of totalitarian states demand complete obedience. That is why the rulers of such states either insist that the people worship their leaders or become Atheists. If one is a Christian, for example, then one must render unto God what is God’s and Caesar what is Caesar’s. The power mad don’t appreciate such “competition”, especially from God.

            When a people refuses to put the love of God before government, there are logical consequences. Because an Atheist does not believe in God, what can he put before government. What will he love more than his own life?

            The people who founded the United State said without reservation that our republic would last only so long as the people upheld the high moral standards required to make constitutional republic work. Because mankind is so flawed, that has never been easy.

            As a Christian, I believe in God. You don’t? You don’t see any proof? And that proves?

            In a free country, we have the right to believe what we want. In a free country, we have the right to do as we wish so long as we don’t infringe upon each others rights. As far as I can tell, you don’t want to live in a free country because you are afraid everyone won’t think like you. Pity!

            Like

          11. “your precious dogma of Atheism. It is silly to deny it.”

            Please explain what it is, the prevention of child indoctrination is my personal issue, nothing to do with any atheist dogma, some agree but most could not care less, they just simply have a disbelief in gods. Ok have it your way, atheists do understand that theists will believe anything.

            “We have over 300 million people here, and this is largely peaceful and prosperous country, but anything that happens here is news. Of course, CNN and the like make it sound far worse than it is.”

            What cracks me up, you have more nutcases with guns than the rest of the developed world put together, and after every shooting the solution is more guns, your healthcare is health inequality correlated with income equality and you have been moaning about your broken education system. I could also harp on about how most of the world views certain US political figures, but I won’t because ours are not any better.

            “As a Christian, I believe in God. You don’t? You don’t see any proof? And that proves?

            Exactly, no evidence no proof, simply nothing that exists outside of the mind, so what else is there?

            “As far as I can tell, you don’t want to live in a free country because you are afraid everyone won’t think like you. Pity”

            Totally wrong, on the contrary, I simply oppose the people who want to inject their form of religion or political views into everything. The government, the schools and science are three that come to mind. We have plenty of private religious schools; however the creationists want their doctrine in all state schools and are pushing for changing our laws to benefit themselves. We also have people from all kinds of churches knocking on the door, I had a theist at the door some time ago who claimed God grew somebody’s leg a couple of inches in front of her phone camera.

            If members of the public do not agree with this kind of theist behaviour I am sure my fundamental rights and as a taxpayer allow me to voice my opinion. Why can’t these theists just keep to themselves if they do not like what they hear? They do not know how lucky they are as most of these flash churches have some of the best real estate due to not having to pay taxes.

            Like

          12. @sklyjd

            I am not going to be diverted. I cannot prove Christianity is true by proving the United States is perfect. All I can say is that the liberties we celebrate in the United Kingdom and the United States came from the Bible. The abolitionists, for example, were Christians.

            Please explain what it is, the prevention of child indoctrination is my personal issue, nothing to do with any atheist dogma, some agree but most could not care less, they just simply have a disbelief in gods.

            Christians use private organizations, churches, to spread the Gospels. Atheists, who are really just modern Pagans, use state-run schools to spread unbelief. If you would stop think about it, what would you expect politicians to do? If we put these people in charge of our schools, they are not going to glorify Secularism and Socialism?

            Who in their right mind puts politicians in charge of their children’s education? People who had politicians, people no one trusts, in charge of their education, of course.

            What are the basic tenets of your religious beliefs, what you call Atheism? They involve the things Atheists put before God: getting stuff, enjoying sex, justifying themselves with science, finding security in power of the state, and glorifying themselves.

            STUFF: Success is now defined by the stuff we have. Socialism is popular because it is based upon covetousness.

            SEX: We sacrifice babies — abort them — in sacrifice to this idol.

            SCIENCE: The distortion of science is what you turn to justify your unbelief. The Nazis and the Communists did the same thing.

            STATE: Listen to you demand we sacrifice our rights to the almighty state. If power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, that’s an act of irrational faith. And you are calling other people nuts?

            SELF: Slavery is perhaps the most visible manifestation of the worship of the self. Other people belong to God. God grants us our rights. However, if there is no God and government grants us our rights, then the strong have the right to own the weak because of their might. In a Socialist state, the elites use the government to own the people. Ain’t the Theory of Evolution wonderful?

            Like

          13. “The abolitionists, for example, were Christians.”

            I agree Tom, they were good Christians who recognised the immorality and considering almost everyone was a Christian in those days the abolitionists were up against fellow Christians.

            “Atheists, who are really just modern Pagans, use state-run schools to spread unbelief.”

            Paganism is a term first used in the fourth century by early Christians for people in the Roman Empire who practiced polytheism. (Wikipedia)

            You do know what polytheism is I assume.Seems that every label you attach to the people you do not like is completely wrong and then you judge them to be spreading disbelief in the Christian God. If anything you hang out on a limb with what you write, and most of the time your ideas come crashing down.

            “Who in their right mind puts politicians in charge of their children’s education?”

            The basic skills are required for poor and rich alike and how can people home school when both parents work every day? Politicians do not teach children and are not in charge of it, I would be extremely worried if they did. Qualified teachers teach our children and our education system is basically still free allowing all children to be educated.

            “What are the basic tenets of your religious beliefs, what you call Atheism? They involve the things Atheists put before God: getting stuff, enjoying sex, justifying themselves with science, finding security in power of the state, and glorifying themselves.”

            Basic tenets? Only one, total disbelief in any gods, anywhere, anytime, anyway.

            Getting stuff? What, such as a car, a home or a computer because you must own the same things as atheists, right? In fact the Churches own more than they need, the fancy buildings and huge land areas and no taxes to pay, everyone is greedy Tom, not just atheists.

            Sex, is this something Christians are not allowed to do or enjoy? Is it for making babies only, no condoms allowed? Abortion has been going on since time began. I am not saying I agree with wholesale abortion, but it does have its use under certain circumstances.

            Science, well yes, we all know the world revolves around scientific discoveries, without it we would still be back in the stone age. We do not have science to prove gods do not exist, we have science because we need it. The Nazis were in fact not scientifically advanced when war broke out, in fact the opposite would be true in many applications. The Soviets we all know were never fielding the most advanced equipment during the war, therefore I do not understand your thinking here.

            Finding security in power of the state? I don’t know what you mean, this has nothing to do with targeting atheists, anyone can be corrupt.

            Glorifying self, well considering that word is more associated to religiousness I would say that personally I am proud of my daughter and of myself, am I sinning? I do not belong to anyone or any god and my rights are driven by the people, I also have no rights, reasons or desires to dominate the weak. In fact capitalism does that very effectively to all of us.

            “Ain’t the Theory of Evolution wonderful?”

            Evolution is the change in the characteristics of a species over several generations and relies on the process of natural selection. (Google) This natural selection is a process where the organisms that adapt better to their environment will survive and produce more offspring. Nothing to do with attacking or destroying the weak organisms.

            Like

          14. @sklyjd

            You remind me of a politician. You don’t answer the question at hand. You answer the question you wish you had been asked.

            Do Atheists behave like the Pagans of old? Why wouldn’t they? Does it actually make that much difference whether you believe the gods are capricious or life is just a random accident?

            Are politicians in charge of the public schools? They are not? That’s your argument? The bureaucracy is in charge? You cannot defend putting the politicians in charge so that’s your fallback?
            Do trustworthy and conscientious bureaucrats just erupt into existence, choose a curriculum, purchased school buses and buildings, hire brilliant instructors, and so forth. Yep! The public school system just evolved into existence. Accept it!

            Anyway, since your counter arguments against what I call the tenets of Atheism are similarly nonsensical and desperate, I suppose I ought to organize this material into a post. It seems we are onto something. Thank you for stimulating me to think about this subject.

            Will let you know when I post THE DOCTRINE OF ATHEISM. Will be curious to see what you think.

            Like

          15. “Do Atheists behave like the Pagans of old? Why wouldn’t they? Does it actually make that much difference whether you believe the gods are capricious or life is just a random accident?”

            Much difference? Pagans will have worshipped their gods with as much passion or possibly more passion than todays theists because their gods filled the role of what we know today is natural scientific understanding, just as all religions did on their inception and still do to a large extent today, therefore all religions are more pagan than atheists, fairly simple really.

            “The bureaucracy is in charge?” I do not know about the US, but the weight of public opinion does have some clout here. Our education system is by no means the best and no single way is the best way but as governments change all we can hope for is an improvement on what we have. Our public system is however still comparable with our private schools.

            Look forward to your new post Tom. Remember to look up the words such as doctrine in a real English dictionary and atheism is a disbelief in a claim not a responsive belief in something else.

            Like

  3. Excellent stuff Tom! I must say I never thought I’d see the words “Obama” and “Conservative” next to each other. Ever. Such is the times we live in.

    I’ve been thinking a lot about truth lately as well and it really is the defining moment of our era that agreement on what used to be commonly held beliefs about truth is gone. Nowhere is this more prevalent than with transgenderism. It’s frightening really what’s going on with kids in this world. Check this NRO article out when you have a minute.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/12/when-will-transgender-clinical-activists-acknowledge-detransitioners/

    Liked by 2 people

    1. @Tricia

      That Nations Review article is scary. It is a good indication of what some people will do for money.

      We need to think about things like gambling, illegal drugs, human trafficking, smoking, pornography, and so forth. We need to consider what these things mean. Some people will do anything for money. Some people will prey quite happily on the weaknesses of their fellow human beings. We need to do everything we can to protect those we love from such predators.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Agreed Tom. And not just what people will do for money, but what people will not do for fear of being labeled a “hater” and becoming socially ostracized for speaking out against encouraging children to undergo sex change surgery. It’s a hideous form of self censorship that’s allowed things to get so whacked out of balance.

        Liked by 2 people

  4. Tom,

    Thanks for reminding me how your post is related to King Solomon’s observations about Truth and Wisdom’

    Buy truth, and do not sell it, Get wisdom and instruction and understanding. (Proverb 23:23)

    In other words, your post reminded me how foolish we Americans have been to allow ourselves to be sold once again, same as Adam and Eve and every generation since, a false bill of goods by the same evil present on our earth.

    What is worse is we have allowed our children to be influenced by the same fools who lack understanding of how they are being used and sold the same bill of goods (folly) since the beginning of time.

    Regards and goodwill blogging.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Spot on teaching Tom.
    It seems as if we, as in the human race, have spent, since the beginning of time, running from the Truth, our Truth.
    It is when we can humble our hearts, falling into the arms of our Savior that the Truth indeed begins to set us free—free from the lies within ourselves…
    Thank you for this reminder.

    Liked by 3 people

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