ARE YOU PRO-ABORTION? — PART 3

This is the third and final post in a series, ARE YOU PRO-ABORTION? Here are links to the previous two.

How Do Our Votes Make Difference?

Every time our government borrows money, our elected officials borrow money in our name, and they mortgage our future and our children’s future, even those yet to be born. So we should be wary of such borrowing.

  • Is it needed?
  • How will we pay off the debt?
  • When?

Every time — EVERY TIME — scheming politicians spend “other people’s money” just to buy our votes and campaign donations, they divert funds that would have been better spent elsewhere. Thus, they abort what might have been, both the production of goods and services that people needed more and the growth and development that might have occurred. Instead, some special interests get what they want. Instead, we saddle future generations with more debt.

Because excessive government spending weakens our economy and invites foreigners to trade our increasingly worthless currency for American real estate and businesses, we risk leaving our children and grand children poor and at the mercy of foreign nations. When we borrow money we don’t even need just because want what we have not earned, we steal — often for the most frivolous reasons — from each other and our own children.

Consider the etymology of the word “abortion”. It is quite revealing. The etymology reflects both our horror and indifference to abortion. The definition of the word “abortion” has been an ongoing struggle between recognizing that the problem of abortion does exist and pretending the problem of abortion does not exist.

abortion (n.)

1540s, “the expulsion of the fetus before it is viable,” originally of deliberate as well as unintended miscarriages; from Latin abortionem (nominative abortio) “miscarriage; abortion, procuring of an untimely birth,” noun of action from past participle stem of aboriri “to miscarry, be aborted, fail, disappear, pass away,” a compound word used in Latin for deaths, miscarriages, sunsets, etc., which according to OED is from ab, here as “amiss” (see ab-), + stem of oriri “appear, be born, arise” (see origin).

Meaning “product of an untimely birth” is from 1630s; earlier in this sense was abortive (early 14c.). Another earlier noun in English for “miscarriage” was abort (early 15c.). In the Middle English translation of Guy de Chauliac’s “Grande Chirurgie” (early 15c.) Latin aborsum is used for “stillbirth, forced abortion.” Abortment is attested from c. 1600; aborsement from 1530s, both archaic. Aborticide (1875) is illogical. Compare miscarriage.

In 19c. some effort was made to distinguish abortion “expulsion of the fetus between 6 weeks and 6 months” from miscarriage (the same within 6 weeks of conception) and premature labor (delivery after 6 months but before due time). The deliberate miscarriage was criminal abortion. This broke down late 19c. as abortion came to be used principally for intentional miscarriages, probably via phrases such as procure an abortion.

Criminal abortion is premeditated or intentional abortion procured, at any of pregnancy, by artificial means, and solely for the purpose of preventing the birth of a living child : feticide. At common law the criminality depended on the abortion being caused after quickening. [Century Dictionary, 1899]

Foeticide (n.) appears 1823 as a forensic medical term for deliberate premature fatal expulsion of the fetus; also compare prolicide. Another 19c. medical term for it was embryoctony, with second element from a Latinized form of Greek kteinein “to destroy.” Abortion was a taboo word for much of early 20c., disguised in print as criminal operation (U.S.) or illegal operation (U.K.), and replaced by miscarriage in film versions of novels. Abortium “hospital specializing in abortions,” is from 1934, in a Soviet Union context.

When we vote for politicians who promise to give “other people’s things”, what we seem to desire most is to pretend the problems we are creating don’t exist. Consider the questions we refuse to pose to our consciences.

  • Are we voting because we care about our countrymen and the future of our children, or are we voting just because we care about our pocketbook? How many times have we been told Americans vote their wallets?
  • When we vote for politicians who promise to give “other people’s things”, are we voting for politicians who care about our countrymen and the future of our children or for politicians who just want to be “somebody”? If we vote for a politician who just wants to be “somebody”, doesn’t that make us pro-abortion?
  • What do we think about the character of the people we elect? What do we  think about the character of the people in Congress? Don’t we almost universally despise them? Yet we put them there. Because we don’t care enough about our neighbors, these are the leaders we deserve.
  • If we don’t care enough about the future of our children and grandchildren to demand a balanced budget, how are we any better than a decadent couple that decides to abort their pregnancy just because they do not want to deal with the inconvenience? After all, if we can abort what might of been for generations to come, spending the inheritance of our children and grandchildren instead of bequeathing them a bright future, how are we that much different from those who choose to abort a baby before it is born?

We can elect people who will balance our nation’s budget. However, before our politicians can properly set our nation’s priorities, we must first determine our own.

Are you pro-abortion? Or are you pro-life? What does your vote say?

We have an election this year. If your congressman or senator, Democrat or Republican, just thinks his job is to spend and spend and spend, please vote him or her out.

And don’t ignore the nomination process, especially if you are Republican. Unless we nominate good candidates, we will be stuck with those who ain’t.

31 thoughts on “ARE YOU PRO-ABORTION? — PART 3

Add yours

  1. Again tom, is god also guilty of making his decision by doing nothing, as you charges me with yesterday, to end abortion by answering the prayers of his people? Is then god showing he is pro abortion by default… By doing nothing?

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    1. John Branyan (http://www.johnbranyan.com/) answered your question.

      God put a conscience inside you, Mikey. That’s not “doing nothing”.
      Here’s my prayer to end abortion.

      “Mighty, Eternal, Holy God,
      Remind Mike that slicing up unborn babies is unspeakably evil. May he lift his head up from his selfish conceit long enough to see this truth. Convict him of his wickedness. Reveal his wretched depravity. Shatter his self-righteousness and let him see the abomination he is. (https://citizentom.com/2018/02/13/are-you-pro-abortion-part-2/#comment-78813)
      Amen.”

      I “liked” that answer. I even said I agreed with with John’s answer (https://citizentom.com/2018/02/13/are-you-pro-abortion-part-2/#comment-78865). Now I have said as much directly.

      What is so sacred about getting your answer from me? I am not God. It should be enough that you got an unambiguous, plainly stated, obviously true answer. God works through us. He does not have to do so, but that seems to be what generally happens. If we don’t like the mess we are making, we just have to do what He has told us to do. We don’t, but we can learn and ask for His wisdom.

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      1. It’s not sacred to get an answer from the one that a question is asked of. It’s common courtesy. And no… Jb didn’t answer, neither did you for that matter. You both ducked the implications of your own words to me about being complicit in the murder of the unborn if I did nothing when I asked you whether God had also made his decision by doing nothing to end abortion. You dodged the question. You refused to apply your own reasoning capabilities and apply what you said about me to your God who does the same thing you accused me of.
        Cognitive dissonance is a real bugger.

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        1. @KIA

          Just because you don’t like the answer, the answer indicates cognitive dissonance?

          Definition of cognitive dissonance
          : psychological conflict resulting from incongruous beliefs and attitudes held simultaneously

          You are the one who seems to be conflicted. John and I are comfortable with the idea that God put a conscience inside each of us, that He expects each of us to pay attention to our conscience.

          Our consciences direct us to obey the commands of our Lord. Why? We exist to give glory to God. We cannot give glory to God if we cannot show Him how much we love Him. We show Him how much we love Him by obeying Him. That notion of giving glory to God offend you? Have you watched a couple in love. Have you ever noticed how they glow with happiness? Christians are also glorified by the love of God.

          When God gives us a difficult choice, He gives us a gift. If He did everything for us, what command would their be left for us to obey? If every command He gave us was easy to obey, how much glory would obeying those commands give God? How would we show the one who made us and loved us first how much we love Him?

          Liked by 1 person

  2. There are many instances that fit the definitions of abortion which are hypocrisies .

    FOR example, our politicians are now debating how cruel we are to DACA children whiile
    at the same time we abort , kill. One million s year children .

    CRUEL?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. This is now your best attack on President Donald Trump? Our government will spend on the order of $4 trillion this year, and you can’t give up speculating about the possibility Trump might spend 15 or 20 million dollars on a parade?
      🙄

      In 2017, DOD spent about $734.8 million on recruiting advertisements (see page 161 of =>http://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/Documents/defbudget/fy2018/fy2018_OM_Overview.pdf). According to => https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/, DOD paid the NFL at least $10.4 million on “marketing and advertising contracts with professional sports teams” across the board between 2012 and 2015. Seems to me the parade would be a better investment, but whose quibbling?

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  3. “This is now your best attack on President Donald Trump?”

    Ha! It’s like belonging to the flavor of the moment club. One cannot keep up with the number of possible lines of criticism for the most unabashedly corrupt president ever.

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  4. 1. Staff members who are credibly accused of domestic violence and subject to blackmail continue for months seeing the highest classifications of top secret info. After a year, over one hundred White House aids, including his son in law and daughter, are working in the White House without a normal security clearance. And you thought Clinton should go to jail because, like her predecessors, she had personal email account.

    2. Our democratic system is under attack by Russians. Every one of Trump’s intel chiefs agree and Trump does nothing. He illegally doesn’t even enforce the sanctions Congress already passed.

    3. 19 women and counting have accused the president of being a sexual predator. During the campaign Trump’s long time personal attorney admits to paying a porn queen off. Other pay off allegations surface daily.

    4. For a much smaller inauguration, Trump’s took in much more money and what little they have released about how they spent that money shows that the corruption began literally on Trump’s first day in office. For a company that she started right before the inauguration, one of Trump’s daughter’s friends was paid over 25 million dollars, and she personally was paid over a million. For what?

    5. A record number of Trump’s cabinet members and other high level of administration appointees have had to resign or have been fired for corrupt self dealing.

    6. Trump’s campaign chairman and deputy chairman are under indictment for Russia related crimes. Trump’s NSC advisor plead guilty to lying about Russia contacts. One of the Trump campaign’s announced foreign policy advisors plead guilty to working with the Russians to get Trump ellected. Top Trump campaign officials admit to having met with Russians to get illegally obtained dirt on Clinton. And so on and so on.

    I could go on and on. Trump corruption is so flagrant it’s hard to keep up. Had any of this happened under Obama or had Hillary been elected, a Republican Congress would have self immolated in heated investigations. The hypocrisy is palpable. So a little more hypocrisy about this Congress adding new trillions to the deficit is just Tuesday’s news.

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    1. “And you thought Clinton should go to jail because, like her predecessors, she had personal email account.”

      This is as far as I got.
      I have to ask something I’ve been wondering for a couple of weeks now.
      Are there two tsalmons? Because I can’t imagine anyone who ever had access to a SCIF would say this. No, the personal e mail account was not the issue…but the tsalmon who worked with military intelligence would know that (or did you work there before the internet existed? Did you work there when Ferris Beuller was changing his grades in school because no one had a computer and security wasn’t yet a “thing”?).

      Liked by 1 person

      1. @anon

        LOL. Actually, when I started, it was SCI cleated carrier pigeons that we used.😉

        Seriously, without delving into my own ancient history that I can’t talk about, I know enough to know that this White House is a national security nightmare. It is the difference between, at worst, negligence on Clinton’s part and the strong possibility that very many people at the highest levels of clearance on the White House are subject to criminal blackmail that precludes them from holding a clearance. Blackmail is the key here.

        The FBI could care less about the things that one admits to. It’s the things that he lies about and covers up that keeps a person from passing an background check. In the case of Porter, from the beginning there was credible contemporaneous evidence that he was a serial wife abuser. He claimed he wasn’t, so that it only would take one person with irrefutable proof of his abuse to compromise Porter on the lie. Kushner has lied so many times about his foriegn business relations that the FBI will probably never recommend him.

        There is no “right” to an SCI clearance that requires due process. It’s a privilege that can and should be denied on any credible suspicion. When I was on active duty, I had one of my best Chiefs denied a clearance and we never knew why. He just had to find a new career.

        Why is the Trump administration on a new level when it comes to this problem? The answer is that the Trump administration has no bottom when it comes to corruption. The fact of the matter is that, if he were not the president, Trump would never get a security clearance. The pay offs to porn women alone subjects him to blackmail and would preclude him from a clearance, and that’s we even get to all of his corrupt business practices.

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        1. Heh, Those carrier pigeons might actually have a future the way things are going.
          Hold on to that skillset! 🙂

          We’ll have to disagree on this bit: “It is the difference between, at worst, negligence on Clinton’s part”
          Gross, gross, unbelievable negligence.
          This was the Secretary of State, the person in charge of approving weapons transfers. An original classification authority. I have a friend who was an Intel officer (before the kids were born, she married my husband’s best friend from college who was his roommate). She has been a lifelong liberal and very much against Trump. But at the moment of truth, election day, she could not (with Hillary’s background and slip-shod history with state secrets) vote for Hillary. It’s the first time she has ever not voted in a presidential election year.
          Now, I could go on a long, long while about this….but I’ll just drop it there, for now.

          “Why is the Trump administration on a new level when it comes to this problem?”
          Is Trump at a new level?
          More than a year into Bill Clinton’s first term, of 1,044 White House personnel, nearly 100 had no security clearance at all. This is not new.
          Hey….Maybe Melina will run for president next! (imagine what that would feel like…and now you have an inkling of what I was feeling during the last election)

          I agree with you on the issue of blackmail (I’d just expand it to the Clinton crime family, and add a deluge of pertinent examples which I will supply at any point if required).
          Things have changed since 1993. Back then, there was a LOT more money and no continuing resolution for funding things like security clearances. We’ve seen some differences in security clearances with the cut backs.
          https://washingtontechnology.com/articles/2017/03/02/insights-berteau-security-clearance-dangers.aspx

          Security clearances take longer. Sometimes a LOT longer. My spouse wrote a manual that only a person with a security clearance can read. When it came time to amend the manual he wrote, they had to wait months…because his clearance had expired, and in order to be privy to a meeting to amend the manual HE WROTE, he needed a clearance. If one has a lot of foreign connections it takes a lot longer. As I’ve mentioned, we’re both first generation American…even after many clearances, it still takes a while. It actually takes longer now than in 1993.

          Liked by 1 person

        2. Oops…misspelled something. Not Melina, Melania.
          (insert some character assassination slurs about how if you won’t vote for her, you are obviously either afraid of a smart woman and/or a woman who hates other women.

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    2. @tsalmon

      Well, the parade did not work. So we are back again to that Liberal Democrat accusation scattergun. Anon diverted that lame attack with your own gloating comment about H. Clinton’s email server. Cough! Cough! That never happened, don’t you know?

      When those afflicted with Trump Derangement Syndrome (you seem to have a severe case) first started flinging mud, I sift through some of it, puzzled by why so little of it stuck. I have some old posts. Look them up.

      You want to talk debate Trump policies? I am okay with that. You want to call me a hypocrite for supporting him? After you supported Obama and H. Clinton? You want to call me a hypocrite? Well, I can certainly be a hypocrite, but you are wasting your time. Your standing is certainly no better than mine.

      You want to know the difference between us? When we seek to perfect ourselves and our children, I think should look to the Holy Spirit. I think we should study the Bible, pray, and fellowship with other believers. I don’t see the government as a source of wisdom. I think politicians are no wiser than the people who elect them. Since most of us are none too wise or too bright, it is dangerously foolish to trust our government any more than we must. Yet because so many of us are unwise and dumb, we do.

      So you think President Donald Trump is a bad choice? You think the People can elect an awful leader? Well, I think you helped to elect one and tried to elect another. Disagree? But there is Trump, and you have your unending list of accusations. If you are so smart — if Trump is so bad — why do you insist upon giving our leaders more power than we absolutely need to give them?

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      1. Well, we are all sinners. For you brother, this seems to engender a cynical fatalism rather than the promise of hope and redemption.

        Despite your wish to have it otherwise, I have no illusions about the perfection of government any more than I have illusions about perfection of people. I do believe, however, that through the grace of God we can make ourselves less sinfull and more perfect, and that, as a community of men and women, we can attempt to govern ourselves less selfishly and more perfectly.

        Tom, you seem to have given in to a despair about your brothers and sisters that only sees the sin but is blind to the image of a loving God radiating in even the worst sinner, the most sodden soul.

        You see Trump as only what your cynicism expects. You see the community of humanity and how we choose to govern ourselves as uniquely hopeless and irredeemable.

        I believe that in God’s love , we should expect more of ourselves, more of each other, more of our leadership and more of our government. Perhaps that is indeed “deranged”, but I can live with that. Even more so, I hope to find eternal life with that.

        Donald Trump should save his soul from the selfishness and materialistic greed that he daily glorifies. We should expect that of Donald Trump rather than just cynically dismissing him as the only bad or worse choices. We should expect a President, however necessary imperfect, that glorifies virtue instead of praising vice and corruption. We should expect our union, however imperfect, to strive to be “more perfect” every day.

        We must not give in to cynicism, but instead cling to the “derangement” (if that is how you wish to see it) of universal hope and the expectation of being better that we are, as individuals, as fellow brothers and sisters, as a community and as a government.

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        1. @tsalmon

          Tom, you seem to have given in to a despair about your brothers and sisters that only sees the sin but is blind to the image of a loving God radiating in even the worst sinner, the most sodden soul.

          When something does not work, repeating the same procedure over and over again is the definition of insanity. Cynicism and despair comes from participating in or watching such insane behavior.

          What has Trump to do with this? He does not share your beliefs.

          You see the community of humanity and how we choose to govern ourselves as uniquely hopeless and irredeemable.

          I think Jesus redeemed us. We have already been redeemed. We tried to redeem ourselves, and we could not do it. Without God’s help, we are hopeless sinners. If you don’t believe that, then what is the point in calling yourself a Christian?

          I believe in God’s love. I believe His Son died on a cross to pay the price for our redemption. I believe because He lives we live, that we can and should love each other as He loves us. What I don’t believe is that we can transfer our responsibility to love each other to some government agency.

          You want to federalize every problem? I don’t. What I believe in doing is using the right tool for the job at hand. If my neighbor needs food, clothing, or shelter, then it not President Donald Trump’s job to help him. That’s not even listed in the Constitution as a responsibility of the Federal Government. Even if the job of helping the poor belonged to the government, and it doesn’t, there is no reason local or state governments could not do the job better. But that would not give you an excuse to signal your virtue by showing us how much you hate Trump.

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  5. @anon

    If Clinton (either Clinton) were indeed the issue, then we could have a lively debate about what once was and what might have been. I probably might agree with you, especially on Bill (I did not vote for him). Who cares?

    By as early as late last summer, the White House knew or should have know that Porter never was going to pass an FBI background check, but they kept him on, and receiving the highest level of top secret info. Why?

    Backlog? Red tape? Nonsense. He had already been investigated and reinvestigated and could not pass. White House BIs are given high priority since 9/11.

    The real problem is that Porter appears to be the tip of the iceberg and that they would rather not admit how many other top people (include Trump’s own family) in the Trump Administration are also through the process and simply cannot pass the background check. This is not a bureaucratic snafu – it’s the BI system working as it should, and being flagrantly ignored in order to cover up the bigger problem of inherent corruption from the top down.

    How long do you think this self deception of blaming Hillary or Bill or Obama for everything imaginable is actually going work for you? How long before you start just looking at Trump’s corrupt admininstration and judging it for what it is? For what you have always known it to be? When are you going to turn those excellent powers if critical observation and judgement on the present and imminent threat to our democracy?

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    1. “How long do you think this self deception of blaming Hillary or Bill or Obama for everything imaginable is actually going work for you? How long before you start just looking at Trump’s corrupt admininstration and judging it for what it is? For what you have always known it to be? When are you going to turn those excellent powers if critical observation and judgement on the present and imminent threat to our democracy?”

      A while back….years back, before the last election, I posted at some “red pill” sites. I had the temerity to mention Scott Adams’ (the Dilbert creator) insights. I was laughed off the board, “Lookit the womenz citing a cartoon artist!” Well….the same people who laughed at me started citing Scott Adams about a year later. Scott Adams hadn’t changed any of his ideas…they just happened to agree with him so, now, he was a really great reference. (I said nothing)
      This is far from an unusual event…and from time to time I change my mind (when more information is available) and at that time I will admit I was wrong.
      I got it right because I am a value investor. I understand that you do not see the value in Trump. I do. Yes, I STILL do.
      Trust me, when I am satisfied and see some actual proof that Trump lives up to (or in this case down to) the hype…or anything within 10 percent close, I will change my mind.
      Flynn is not a good example. He only spent 8 days at the job. He committed a “crime” no one has ever been punished for and most likely agreed to a plea deal because they’re holding the prosecution of his son as collateral.

      No, not Porter. Was there a criminal record on Porter? If not, we have allegations…and I think one should be very very careful about kicking someone out of office over allegations. Perhaps it should happen as evidence is more forthcoming, but it shouldn’t happen quickly.
      ’nuff said.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. FOr clarity, by 10 percent above I mean even if it is only ten percent true.
        At present, just about everything the Democrats are frothing over has either been false (statements taken out of context) or unproven. And many of the very things unproven the Democrats are screaming about they have been actually proven guilty of.

        Liked by 1 person

  6. “Cynicism and despair comes from participating in or watching such insane behavior.

    What has Trump to do with this? He does not share your beliefs.”

    Like you and most moral people, I believe that we should strive for unselfish virtue. We should seek to be honorable and we should refrain from dishonor. You are right in that Trump does not share this belief system. Instead of common virtue, Trump unabashedly promotes selfishness as the highest goal. The problem is not that Trump is a sinner like the rest of us, it is that he promotes sin. This is the definition of corruption, and so, unlike you, I am not surprised or dispairing when corruption begets more corruption. It confirms the truth of my belief system , a moral belief system that is a universal, but for me is founded in God and represented by His manifestation in the three persons of the Holy Trinity.

    That humans are inherently corrupt would be a cause for despair only if God in Christ had not showed us that He redeems us through love, but we still have to want to be redeemed.

    Love is selfless. Love is sacrifice. Love is manifested in virtue. It is the shining light that leads us out of the ever present dark ocean of sin, immersed in which we would otherwise surely drown. That light is the hope that keeps us from despairing of the suffocating darkness of sin that we see always in ourselves and in others. We know that if we focus on the unselfish loving sacrifice that manifests itself in the practice of virtue we can make ourselves, our communities, our government and our world a better place.

    As you say, the price of our redemption has already been paid, but that does not mean that we are called to do nothing in return. We must voluntarily seek the light. Imperfect as it is, we must affirm ourselves over to love. God has brought the rescue boat right up to us, Jesus has taught us how to swim through this sea of sin and He is shining a light of love on us to guide our way, but we have to at least turn toward Him to be saved. So my question is the same as yours, “If you don’t believe that, then what is the point in calling yourself a Christian?”

    On your final point:

    “You want to federalize every problem?”

    No. And I have never said I do. It’s a ridiculous superlative that I have never professed. I have repeatedly said that pure collectivism, whether federalized or not, is as dumb as pure individualism, whether federaized or not. However, because you see every problem through this quixotic dualism, you must constantly shape strawmen out of windmills just to joust at? I AGREE with you. Government is an imperfect tool just as corporate market capitalism is an imperfect tool just as a voluntary charitable organization is an imperfect tool. I have no problem using the best tool or a combination of tools depending on the job.

    As a tool, government in it various forms is no more moral or immoral than any other tool. If you design corporations or charities to be corrupt, they will be corrupt. Similarly, if you presume corruption in government, you will not be surprised when you find it. Your despair will simply breed more despair. Only in seeking and expecting virtue is there hope.

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    1. @tsalmon

      Only God is good, and only He has any business sitting in judgement of us. So are you and I good people? Relative to who, Donald Trump? Hillary Clinton? Adolf Hitler? Mother Tereasa?

      When I said Donald Trump does not share your beliefs, I was talking about political beliefs. I was not inviting you to judge his soul.

      The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so. — Ronald Reagan

      You know too much that isn’t so. You listen to the wrong people, and you believe them. Even if the news media reports actually were objective, you still would not know enough about Donald Trump to judge him. Yet you hear people doing just that, and you copy their behavior.

      Matthew 7:1-6 New King James Version (NKJV)
      Do Not Judge

      7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

      6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

      We can evaluate the behavior of other people, and we have a responsibility to protect ourselves, but we have no need to judge, not even such as Adolf Hitler.

      If you want to change the world, then do what Jesus did. Give of yourself. Set an example.

      Are you doing that, setting that example? To some extent, I think so, but you are also voting for people who think their purpose in life is to make other people do things. That’s not loving. That is bossing. That is not giving. That is taking. That’s not an example of selfless love. That’s a selfish abuse of power. Regardless of what you say you want, the people you vote for have made it quite clear that they are prepare to federalize every problem. You say I exaggerate? When the Federal Government’s budget is nearly twice the size of state and local governments combined? You’ve got to be kidding.

      The fact is you would have a difficult time naming anything these days that the Federal Government has not stuck its nose into, and that’s just a fact.

      So am I in despair? No. My hope is not in the ability of man to perfect man. I expect my Creator to perfect me.

      Philippians 1:6 Good News Translation (GNT)

      6 And so I am sure that God, who began this good work in you, will carry it on until it is finished on the Day of Christ Jesus.

      You want a model? A life goal to aspire to? Imagine someone like Paul saying this about you.

      Philippians 2:19-22 Good News Translation (GNT)

      19 If it is the Lord’s will, I hope that I will be able to send Timothy to you soon, so that I may be encouraged by news about you. 20 He is the only one who shares my feelings and who really cares about you. 21 Everyone else is concerned only with their own affairs, not with the cause of Jesus Christ. 22 And you yourselves know how he has proved his worth, how he and I, like a son and his father, have worked together for the sake of the gospel.

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  7. Tom,

    When you run out of arguments, you project and smugly quote your favorite irrelevant insults about liberals.

    You spend a good bit of time here self righteously “judging” the souls of Democrats so your accusing me of doing the same with Trump would be laughable even if it were true. What a ridiculous notion. For me to say that Trump believes in the goodness of greed is not making a moral judgement about his soul any more than saying that it is raining outside is making a moral judgement about the weather. When I say that Trump promotes vice I’m just taking him at his own word. (Trump does verifiably lie almost constantly so maybe we shouldn’t completely take him at his word on anything though).

    Trump’s moral beliefs are his political beliefs. You of all people know that you can’t completely separate the two. We are both capable of, and indeed have a responsibility to, judge a politician’s professed moral beliefs and judge his actions as moral or immoral without having to go so far as to judge his soul.

    All this condemning me for judging souls is just silly. You can do better than that brother. It degrades a friendly civil debate on philosophy and facts into childish taunts of “I know you are but what am I.” But then again that is also one of Trump’s favorite deflections, isn’t it? 😏

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    1. @tsalmon

      I don’t spend much time talking about particular people. I talk about issues and ideas. Liberal Democrats may not think themselves ideological, but they are. Liberal Democrats may just consider themselves pragmatic, but their so-called pragmatism comes with a set of ideological beliefs that I oppose. I have considered those beliefs, and I don’t find them in accord with Biblical teachings. Therefore, I am obligated to oppose what Liberal Democrats stand for.

      What you are doing is attacking Trump personally. Given what Obama and H. Clinton have done, that’s indefensible. Yet you keep doing it because it is all you have got and you won’t admit what you want has not worked and won’t work because it is morally wrong.

      Why don’t I defend Trump? It is a waste of time. He is not Jesus. Jesus’ character was unassailable. That did not stop the Pharisees from using his virgin birth to suggesting a bastard birth, but that was the best they could do.

      It is too easy to cast aspersions on the character of anyone else. Trump included. In fact, the muckrakers can churn out accusations faster than I can sift muck. Since the election is over, and the charges are coming from biased journalists, I just don’t care.

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  8. So calling Obama a liar and a thief is not a personal attack? Your trying, judging and sentencing Clinton to prison for Benghazi and for her emails is not a personal attack? Shrug.

    Anyway, Trump professes a morality of greed and selfishness. You say that your use your own unique interpretation of the Bible as weapon for partisan attacks is ok, but you find it unseemly to challenge Trump for unabashedly and actively promoting selfishness and vice currently and throughout his entire life? This is not an issue of Trump’s personal moral behavior, (which is problematic for even the least prudish person). The issue here is whether Trump believes in the basic concept of morality. For a web site on Christian morality as it specifically applies to politics, one would think that this would be a hot issue. Regardless of that, the other six issues that I brought up above are based upon facts that are not really in dispute, and even under your strange equivalency with regard to what is a personal attack and what is not, these are just simple issues of corruption and incompetence in the White House.

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    1. @tsalmon

      It quite obvious that Obama lied about a great many things. When a politician lies repeatedly about his acts as a public official, how do I avoid pointing that out? It becomes part of the debate. When people say things about Obamacare that are not true, and they know it, what are we supposed to do? When public officials say the Constitution empowers them to do things that that document clearly does not empower them to do, what should we say about it? Obama’s motives may pure as the wind-driven snow, but he still has no trouble lying, and neither does H. Clinton, and you know it.

      I don’t know what makes Obama tick. H. Clinton obviously loves money, but I focused upon and rejected their policies. We both understand neither of them deserve to be trusted, but you can pretend otherwise. Neither can be trusted to tell the truth, and that is easy to demonstrate. You have to be blind and death not to know that.

      You don’t like Trump? Given the alternative, I do. Would I have preferred a different Republican? He lost.

      Meanwhile, I am not going to sideline myself just because Trump is not perfect enough for you. Given who you have supported, I think your accusations against Trump are just pathetic. I have better things to do than worry about muck from muckrakers.

      What am I concerned about? The fact you think diatribes against Trump provide the basis for good public policy. What is constantly repeating a bunch of gossip supposed to accomplish? Why don’t you just write “I hate President Donald Trump” a thousand times on a chalk board every day/ It would do just as much good.

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      1. Has Obama or Clintion ever told a falsehood? Yes, but Trump sets new records by the minute. I think Obama’s personal moral character was an aberration for Presidents, in that it was pretty refreshingly exemplary. I think that Hillary’s reputation for mendacity was indeed trumped up muck raking that very little investigation of such allegations exposed as inflated or just plain fabricated.

        If you really are worried about the lies of politicians then Trump should keep your blog pretty full. The latest numbers reveal a several whoppers every day. I know, the truth always has such a partisan bias against Trump.

        Instead of moral consistency, what you are arguing seems to be that you prefer a head in the sand attitude when the truth is just too inconvenient to the promotion of your ideology. There is a weird willingness by Republicans lately to ignore any outrage and any evidence of corruption so long as Trump throws them an ideological bone every now and then. I consider myself pretty pragmatic when it comes to expecting black and white ideological answers to every problem but this level of deep cynicism and ideological inconsistency is almost surreal, and then you sanctimoniously presume to try to shame me? Seriously? I love you brother. I rarely get a chance to laugh this much. 😆

        Like

  9. BTW

    Is it gossip that Trump had affairs with a porn star and a Playboy Playmate while his wife was recovering from child birth? Perhaps, but the fact that, during the campaign, his lawyer paid them to keep quite is an established fact which goes the Trump’s fitness for office.

    Is it gossip that there were credible contemporaneous allegations of spousal abuse against a Trump top aid. Probably not because it’s a crime. But regardless, the fact that he handled the highest levels of Top Secret information when it was clearly established that he could not and would not ever pass a background check demonstrates incompetence on the level of dereliction of duty that would get you or I court marshalled when we were in the military. We now have good reason to believe that he was far from the only top advisor to be in this position.

    I can go on if you like. These events are not in dispute. However, if in your mind, credible allegations of rampant incompetence and corruption in the White House is just “gossip” only when it applies to Republicans, then what is the point?

    Like

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