YOU WANT PEOPLE TO LISTEN?

Human Ear Anatomy (from here)

“What is Your Name?” by insanitybytes22 is a good, thoughtful post. Nevertheless, because something rubbed me the wrong way, I started a debate.  What got me going? ‘s post is about that sexual harassment issue everyone is talking about.  She liked a certain post.

Really sweet post from Sam Powell called, “What is your name?” I’m just going to drink it all in personally, enjoy the cool refreshing taste of, “ahh, so this is what it feels like to be heard.” Now that’s the sound of healing! It’s a sweet sound like an abundant river, like the flow of living water. (from here)

What was Powell’s post about? Well. His post is well-written, but we don’t know what it is about until we get half-way through it.

I think that we fall into the same trap. We who are pastors, who are trained to examine words and exegete scripture, are particularly bad at this. Recently, Oprah made a speech about how women have been sexually assaulted. She spoke of degradation and losing dignity. She spoke about how many women have just become used to being raped and silenced. They tolerate it because they have no choice. They cannot speak because their voice has been taken away. If they speak up, they are outcast and unable to work. So they suffer in silence just to put food on the table. She skillfully outlined the brutality of her upbringing and the tremendous suffering her mother went through, just to survive. She went on to encourage those who have been silenced to speak and not suffer in silence any longer. (from here)

Sneaky! Don’t you know?

Anyway, what bothers me is that all the noise about listening is about listening to the accusers. Don’t we still believe that the accused are entitled to a presumption of innocence? Therefore, the text of my comments protest like this.

What about listening? When we are talking about sexual harassment and even the possibility of an alleged crime (rape, for example), there are two parties. There is the accuser and there is the accused. I think it is a great idea to listen to the accuser, but I also think the accused deserves a fair hearing.

Obviously, when someone is accused a of foul deed, they have much to gain by refuting the charges. Therefore, we automatically suspect the truth of their words. Moreover, we wonder. What would anyone have to gain by making a false accusation? What do people gain from making false accusations? Well, some people do make false accusations. So both the accuser and the accused deserve to be listened to, especially when accusations are proffered against otherwise respected people years and decades after the supposed crime is alleged to taken place.

In our society, we have long tradition of a presumption of innocence. What do we have to gain by giving that up? (from here)

And this.

Do you actually believe 100 percent of the accusers can be trusted to tell the truth? If that is the case, then why do we need a commandment against bearing false witness and perjury laws? (from here)

And this.

What insanitybytes22 was trying to do was encourage Christians to listen to others more carefully. Even Sam Powell is just trying to get Christians to listen more carefully. There is nothing especially wrong with that, but everyone is entitled to a hearing, both the accusers and the accused. Unfortunately, none of us listen very well. Our ears and our eyes are too full of ourselves. So we tend to see and hear with preconceived notions, that is, with a bias. (from here)

Nevertheless, there is a certain lady, Condoleezza Rice on #MeToo: ‘Let’s not turn women into snowflakes’ (cnn.com), who spoke to the issue far better than I did.

(CNN)Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said that while she believes the #MeToo movement is “a good thing,” people need “to be a little bit careful” about how they respond to it.
“Let’s not turn women into snowflakes. Let’s not infantilize women,” Rice insisted during an interview with CNN’s David Axelrod on “The Axe Files,” which airs at 7 ET Saturday night.
Rice said she didn’t want “to get to a place that men start to think, ‘Well, maybe it’s just better not to have women around.’ I’ve heard a little bit of that. And it, it worries me,” she told Axelrod.

Following last year’s downfall of Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein after sexual harassment and assault allegations, people have begun sharing their stories of sexual harassment and abuse, using the hashtag #MeToo. (continue here)

The CNN link includes a video. Rice is definitely worth listening to. Admirable lady.

Also, please check out  ‘s and Powell’s posts and the comment trails that follow.

18 thoughts on “YOU WANT PEOPLE TO LISTEN?

  1. “Anyway, what bothers me is that all the noise about listening is about listening to the accusers. Don’t we still believe that the accused are entitled to a presumption of innocence?”

    Perhaps you would be interested in reading another’s expression of the concept in this post where Doug Wilson says “The biblical view of justice requires the presumption of innocence, due process, the right to cross-examination, and more.”

    You might also find the comments enlightening, especially those by MeMe.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Pastor Wilson has a good post. Thanks for sharing.

      Using MeMe’s responses to Pastor Wilson’s posts is a bit pointless. She has her own posts on the subject. It easy to search her website for “roy moore” and find posts. Here is a good example => https://insanitybytes2.wordpress.com/2017/11/15/roy-moore-and-the-gender-divide-within-evangelicalism/.

      MeMe has more empathy for the women than she does the “guy”. That works both ways.

      Historically women have arguably suffered far more abuse at the hands of men than men have at the hands of women. So the natural tendency, when the opportunity comes, is to go to other extreme. However, as Pastor Wilson’s post suggest, what comes naturally is not Biblical.

      Like

  2. The question to discern is why someone chooses to reveal a ” whatever* revealization and the timing.

    MY next post will address why Durbin chose to gamble to accuse or reveal Trump statement. He obviously knows by doing so, he is a dead man walking in the eyes of Trump.

    Same as accusers gamble to reveal someone in this post.

    Regards and goodwill blogging

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Interesting,Tom. I’m always curious about what I call the “Great Divide.” It’s hard to speak of such things without stepping on people’s pride, but many conservatives have some real blind spots that have a whole lot to do with why we so frequently loose elections, and the heart of the people in the process.

    Ha! So in my way of thinking, if we ever manage to bridge that “Great Divide,” I will never have to endure the disasterous policies of progressives again. Our inability to empathize and to listen to those who are marginalized is a huge part of the problem.

    Many people may be not aware of this, but President Trump is different,in the sense that he actually has listened to people’s grievances,empathized, and addressed them. There have been a record number of sex traffiking indictments and prosecutions, he’s signed in an order to seize their assets, there are huge opiate pharmaceutical investigations and indictments going on, and a big part of the #Metoo campaign has to do with exposing pedophilia in high places. These things are all called “swamp draining.” He heard the people, he listened, he recognized the problem, and he is following through.

    How many conservatives really understood that the biggest challenges for those on the bottom of the aquarium actually stems from corruption in high places? A very, very, few. Most tend to just dismiss people as special snowflakes, perpetual victims, a bunch of whiners who just need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. That’s really easy to say if you haven’t walked in those shoes and you don’t understand.

    Ha! So self serving though it may be,I want conservatives to understand because I really like winning and I want to see more of it.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. The short answer to your question is: Tell them what they want to hear.
    That’s the key to manipulating people.
    Think about the way propaganda works in a war zone. The enemy takes pictures/tells a story that completely eliminates context. People believe the propaganda and anyone who tries to explain what actually happened becomes an evil enabler to violence (even, paradoxically by the very people who forced our soldiers into the situation where they had to confront that violence at our demanding bidding). Propaganda manipulation is powerful.

    You’ve probably noticed this subject gets me really het up. Why? Well, I know lots and lots of victims of this propaganda. And when you are charged with a crime you did not commit, particularly a sex crime, you are marred for life. The amount of credibility people give the unsubstantiated and unsubstantiatable claims of #metoo, often decades old is beyond my comprehension. We’ve had numerous cases of wives charging their husbands with rape on the first date, five or more years prior. During the process if separation and divorce of course. You would not believe the level of crazy I’ve seen. Some of the “victims” (fortunately for the accused) texted each other during the “attack”! (I’m not kidding….there was a case a while back where two women, both married to other men, went to different rooms in a hotel and asked each other, “Should I have sex with this guy? Yeah! I will! I’m mad at my husband! both later charged these men with assault…want to place a wager they posted at “#metoo?)

    A friend of mine was recently hit by a car in a store parking lot. Her version of events was the car “came out of nowhere” and hit her. Well, they had a video from different angles and what actually happened was….she did not look at all and stepped directly between two moving cars. Her version of events was completely wrong. Imagine a version of events that are unrecorded and took place 30 years prior while someone has been stewing on it for years (“he used me! He didn’t really love me!”)

    It’s truly nuts the amount of credibility we give these folks. I have never in my life felt the need to complain anonymously about the bad deals I’ve had in life for the express purpose of garnering sympathy from anonymous people who pretend to care.

    Liked by 2 people

      1. I’d rather not say, Citizen Tom.
        I get a lot of information that isn’t made public. (and I probably talk too much as it is, but I try to keep it generic and general…there are plenty of cases to point to that are made public, but they are boring to read unless you take a person interest…The Whole Truth, by Bob Harvey, documents the Lt Colonel Wilkerson case and that will tell you all you need to know about how those trials go)

        Liked by 1 person

        1. OK. Thanks.

          Please remember we are all traceable on the Internet. If you are concerned about revealing confidential info, it is probably best stick to facts that you can quote from public sources. Don’t want to see you getting into trouble. Otherwise, you could be tempted to say more than you know you should.

          Liked by 1 person

  5. I always found a voice of reason in Condelezza Rice—and I agree with her here.
    I fear in our rush to right injustice, we tend to overcompensate for the wrong. We go to the extreme opposite side to “fix things” failing to see that in our “fixing” we are creating a different harm to a different degree on a different side. We lose the balance in it all by sending everyone out with pitchforks looking for the monster and in turn, we make most everyone we see a monster.
    It becomes a form of hysteria as we become afraid in our relationships..afraid to be misconstrued least we become one of the sought after monsters…tiptoeing becomes the norm as everyone is looking sideways at everyone else wondering if they two are guilty.

    Victimization becomes the flavor of the day as everyone has their story and in the tide of victimization, we lose the true impact of the very wrong we’ve sought to right…

    Rice is correct in urging caution.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. When a journalist reports a story, he wants us to believe the story is highly important — earthshaking! Got to have readers to make a dollar. If they have a “hidden” agenda, like using sexual harassment to get President Trump, they strive for hysteria.

      Liked by 1 person

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