Carl Bloch, 1890 (from here)
It is a perennial topic. Because Atheists want to believe religion is bad, especially Christianity, they insist upon debating whether (telling us that he was, really) Hitler was a Christian. Since 
How could anyone think that? How do we explain Hitler? How do we each explain our own capacity to sin? How do we explain Jesus’ death on the cross? Why does God hate sin so much?
After The Last Supper, before He prayed at the garden of Gethsemane, Jesus spoke to His disciples. and He told them of another prophecy that his enemies were fulfilling.
John 15:24-25 New King James Version (NKJV)
24 If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. 25 But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’
Here is the Old Testament verse Jesus referred to.
Psalm 69:4 New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Those who hate me without a cause
Are more than the hairs of my head;
They are mighty who would destroy me,
Being my enemies wrongfully;
Though I have stolen nothing,
I still must restore it.
Who put Jesus up on that cross? Who did not? We all sin, and for no cause at all we often hate doing what is good, preferring to do what is evil.
Look at Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong…. the list goes on and on. Did those men brutally kill so many all by themselves? Is it not more normal for people like you and me to enslave our neighbors than it is to love them? Yet on Christmas Day Mary gave birth to Jesus, and Jesus grew up and lived a poor man’s life. Then He preached we should live in obedience to God and love each other. Finally, He redeemed us. He let men like you and me try Him, beat Him and then murder Him on a cross, and three days later He rose from the dead.
Why did He do it? His enemies, people like you and me, killed Him without a cause, but what cause did He have for allowing His enemies to murder Him?
1 John 4:7-11 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
Because God is love, He gives us every opportunity to repent of our sins, to love Him above all, and to love one another as we each love our self. This is the greatness of His mercy, withholding the punishment we deserve. This is the bounty of His grace, offering us a salvation we cannot earn. This is the magnitude of His glory, that vile and despicable human beings like you and me should be transformed into His children. So it is that on Christmas Day we celebrate the day God appeared among us to show us just how much He loves us.
“Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.” That is the message of the Gospel, and that is the message that angered and still angers Jesus’ enemies without a cause. That should leave us all wondering. How could anyone hate Jesus, someone who loves them so much? Yet so many do.
Do you know know Jesus? If not, please take the time to learn about Him, and learn to love Him.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Citizen Tom 
Thank you for sharing😇
I’ve read through the comment section and I am completely perplexed with JZ’s comments. So much so, I must conclude that either JZ is an idiot or a deceitful idealogue. Of course, as I have had the pleasure to interact with the man, I know he’s not an idiot, but as I am educated as a historian, I must conclude that he’s simply lacking any sort of ethics with presenting any historical evidence in regards to Mel’s post on Hitler.
JZ presents quotes and names from religious leaders as evidence to form the conclusion that religious leaders supported Hitler; therefore, they thought and Hitler thought he was a good Christian.
Fine.
However, it doesn’t indicate that by the teachings of Jesus, as Mel points out, that Hitler was in fact in line with Jesus’ teachings, which would indicate whether he was a good Christian or not. The same conclusion can be reached in regards to Moore. 80% of Evangelicals voted for him, I would concede that most likely like any voting body, they are misinformed either by/with the news and/or Christianity. I will concede that that is my opinion on the matter. However, as I cannot possibly know the motives of the voters, I can do nothing but surmise on the issue. Although, if they did act against the teachings of Jesus, I have no issue with criticism on the part of JZ.
JZ points out a quote from Hitler about the Temple, but, of course, this is read out of context from the Gospel by Hitler, which was common in Germany presented by the German Christians–an organized group in Germany that rose up pre-Nazi and Nazi era.
If taking a look at players during the period, we can find that there were those who early on dissented from Hitler and later changed their opinion as Mel asserted, some paying the price with their lives.
Archbishop Johannes de Jong issued a decree condemning Nazism, which, in fact, led to some of the harshest treatment of dissenters from the Nazi party.
“We took this challenge before our Lord and our conscience, and it must be done, because this man Hitler, he is the ultimate evil.” – Claus von Stauffenberg
The New York Times editorials praising Pope Pius XII
On Christmas Day, 1941, the New York Times, commenting on Pius XII’s Christmas Message, carried the following editorial:
“The Pope’s Message
“The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas. … His program … calls for … equal treatment for minorities, freedom from religious persecution. … as we realize that he is about the only ruler left o[n] the Continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all. … This is indeed a measure of the “moral devastation” he describes as the accompaniment of physical ruin and inconceivable human suffering. … the Pope put himself squarely against Hitlerism.”
Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, Josef Mueller, Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Saint Maximillian Kolbe, Bernhard Lichtenberg, and as most modern historical consensus has concluded Cardinal Giovanni Pacelli, as indicated in the encyclical of Pope Pius XI written mostly by Giovanni Pacelli– better known as Pope Pius XII, the Leader of most of Christianity. Furthermore, it must be stated that it is Jewish historian that have championed the cause of Pope Pius XII’s role against Nazism.
Now, it’s true, that JZ will indicate this all to be opinion, but even as Professor Taboo indicates with his negative criticism of the Roman Church, which I’ll have to address at a different time. The Catholic Church, at the Council of Trent, has all but declared personal interpretation of scripture as anathema. So, if both Pope Pius XI and Pope Pius XII, as the Roman Church, the leader of the largest body of Christians declare against Hitler, more or less the claims of Christianity being pro-Hitler more or less falls flat on its face.
@Philip Augustine
Interesting comment. I spoke from a personal and a Protestant point-of-view. Because of our differences, It can be a bit more difficult than I have said to figure out what it means to be a Christian.
That was another hornet’s nest, but I suppose it is consistent with your argument, and that doctrine is still with us. Fortunately, time and the acceptance of religious freedom has quelled the strife.
The Protestant Churches say the Bible is the authority on the doctrine that defines Christianity. Yet over time men have puzzled of the meaning of the Bible.Even the words have changed to a small extent because of rediscovered copies of scripture, because of the need to translate (hard to find the right words sometimes), and because of actual translation errors. Therefore, individuals interpreters can only pray for illumination.
Catholicism, as I understands it (and as you suggest), points to the pope and church councils as the authorities on the doctrine that defines Christianity. From one year to the next — from one generation to the next — men change. What one person sees of God, His Creation, the hearts He has given us, and His Word, another person cannot see. So even though scripture may have “changed” relatively little we debate (sometimes ferociously) because we are all different.
Which is best? Because it is my soul, and our Lord expects each of us to make a choice, I prefer deciding for myself what the Bible says. Since men are more fickle than a book, I think depending more than we must upon men, even learned men, ultimately makes the definition of Christianity more difficult to ascertain. However, I welcome your thoughts.
As a practical matter, it seems that our circumstances choose for us. In nations that are literate, the average person can study the Bible, at least a good translation, and decide what it says. In poor, undeveloped nations, or in nations that are hostile to Christianity, the people may not be able to read and study the Bible. Such people have no option except to depend upon the clergy.
Anyway, I welcome your thoughts.
Of course, Tom, the argument is a Catholics argument against JZ’s dribble, I would simply say that regardless of professed theology, If one is playing the numbers game, as JZ was throughout the thread, this argument simply shows his foolishness.
As a Catholic though, it does trouble me to see that personal interpretation leads to division. It’s quite common knowledge to Christians that Calvin asserted that there was no sacramental nature to communion; the Lutheran position objected and said look it’s in scripture! “Do this in memory of me.”—the use of memory in Greek means commemoration.
The use of Pope and Councils is merely to decide the disagreement and to prevent disunion. Of course, Professor Taboo is correct the Roman Church did use violent methods, which boiled over to the Anglicans using violent methods against Catholics and so on. Violence was a part of politics in those times, and it would be more so today if the violence wouldn’t destroy the world.
Luther argued that the Popes and Councils contradicted each other and thus are void. However, I’m not convinced of his argument, but at the same time I am a product of modern history. What is important is that the argument can be made that the Popes and Councils do not contradict scripture because scripture does in its own right as the Word of God have its own authority. This is what keeps the faith from dramatic change, which is why the Catholic Church is heated debate on marriage, but it is Matthew Ch. 19 that stands firm.
I am glad though that the Vatican II Council has made it a point to respect religious freedom of conscience in light of past atrocities. And this is good change that has occurred in the hearts of men.
I see Christianity as a Community, my salvation is tied more to my brothers and sisters than I know. The theology of the Catholic Church teaches, and the creeds, that our actions affect one another when we do good or bad within the Body of Christ (the communion of saints). In this assertion, unity of teaching (Latin: Doctrina) is most needed for the betterment of the whole.
So it appears the conclusion may fall again on Justification.
@Philip Augustine
Agreed.
I think key thing to remember is that we are not each others servants, we are each others brothers and sisters. Jesus taught us to serve each other in love, not to demand each others obedience.
Therefore, I think it best to let everyone decide for him or herself how they define what it means to be a follower of Jesus Christ. In practice, most people will defer at least to some extent to those they deem more expert than themselves. So if Catholics defer to the authority of the pope and church councils, that in itself is not a big deal. Problems arise when the “experts” use force to establish their authority instead of persuasion. That turns our relationship with Jesus into a political problem, which is, of course, why religious belief has to be protect from the state.
The title of the post, The Real Roots of Hitler’s Ideology, answers the lack of understanding of atheists about Christians.
There is a difference between a person who claims to be a Christian and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. He or she is identified as a “real Christian.”
Any person who compares Hitler to Christianity needs to “really open his eyes” about whatever ideology he believes according to this ancient verse written 3000 years ago and still applicable to him, in my opinion..
The wise man can see where he is going, but the fool walks in darkness. (Ecclesiastes 2:14)
Regards and goodwill blogging.
https://gospelbillboards.org/real-christians-obey-jesus-teachings/
Thanks for pointing us to Jesus. You are wise in your understanding of the real issue. God is love and in an amazing mood, all the time.
In my opinion, the reason Christians have “more enemies than hairs on their heads”: is because of a cold evil wind that blows all around the world.
In ancient times, the belief was evil entered into the bellies of men. Today we believe evil enters and resides in the minds of men.
Some people choose Christianity to provides a blanket of love to warm their hearts and minds from the cold evil wind that keeps on blowing around and around the world in every new generation.
Wise people will choose Christianity to provide blankets for themselves and their loved ones..
King Solomon would most certainly call someone who refuses to put on a blanket during a cold wind a fool.
Those who choose to follow fools become fools,
History records there have been many fools over time, “perhaps even more than the number of hairs on anyone’s head,”
Regards and goodwill blogging..
True enough.
What is the nature of the evil that blows around the world? Pride. In pride we put our own wisdom before the wisdom of our Creator. It is absurd to think we know more than God, but pride makes us fools.
When prideful people see others doing what they know they should be doing, they become angry. Just the fact some do what is right is enough to condemn the words and deeds of those who do wrong.
Synonyms of pride
amour propre, bighead, complacency, conceit, conceitedness, ego, egotism, pomposity, pompousness, complacence, pridefulness, self-admiration, self-assumption, self-conceit, self-congratulation, self-esteem, self-glory, self-importance, self-love, self-opinion, self-satisfaction, smugness, swelled head, swellheadedness, vaingloriousness, vainglory, vainness, vanity
King Solomon appears to agree with you about pride being the nature of evil.
Vanity[b] of vanities, says the Preacher,
vanity of vanities! All is vanity. (Ecclesiastes 1:2)
Regards and goodwill blogging.
K
Merry Christmas, Tom!
I loved this, “Who put Jesus up on that cross? Who did not? We all sin…” and this “He let men like you and me try Him, beat Him and then murder Him on a cross…”
Knowing and understanding that Jesus died for each one of us personally is so critical. Get that part right and everything else just falls into place.
@insanitybytes22
Glad you enjoyed this post.
I hope getting this part right helps everything else just falls into place. It seems to be the most difficult part to accept.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
and might I add, as I was reading through the comments over on Mel’s and since I am still dealing with this infected root canal, I don’t have the strength to deal with John..so I’ll pose this question here…..why, when the topic of a discussion with an atheist is in one direction….why do they suddenly try and skirt down a pig trail totally off course and ask a stupid demanding questions of the one they are trying to fuss with??? Like John asking both Mel and the other commenter “is Roy Moore a “good” Christian?”—when Roy Moore wasn’t even on the radar of discussion…it drives me nuts….they won’t stay on topic. And who knows if Roy Moore is a good Christian or not??!! Isn’t that between Roy Moore and God in the first place??? Is because they think they can throw in a diversion, wear down an “opponent” by dithering to death….or is it because they really don’t have a legit case of arguing in the first place… just going down in flames…..
I think it’s time for another pain pill……
Infected root canal? OUCH!!!!
Sorry you are not well. Hope you get over that soon. May our Lord protect you and your bring you a little joy during this Holy Season.
Why does John do that? Well, John really is not trying to prove he is right. He is trying to prove Christians are bad for disagreeing with him.
I would presume you have read some of Plato’s dialogues. Orderly discussions, right? Socrates would speak very logically, and his listeners, even those who disagreed, would politely listen, and sometimes they would contribute cogent thoughts of their own. At worst, they might make a long speech, and Socrates would point out the deflection.
What Plato wrote does not often happen in real life debates. When winning is everything to at least one side, truth is not the object. Proving the unfitness of one’s opponent becomes the object. Hence, John will always try to steer the discussion to what is wrong with Christians and away from the actual subject, particularly if the subject is Jesus.
then perhaps we should just save our breath???
No. You know better.
🙂
We only do what Jesus instructed, and knowing that is enough should give us peace.
Jesus told us to spread the Gospel, but He did not tell us to give anyone a new heart or to fill them with the Holy Spirit. How would we do that?
We just baptize and instruct those with eyes that see and ears that ear. With these, our brothers and sisters, Jesus, who is still with us, has done the hard part, just as He did with us.
Hi Julie. That’s called a fallacious argument (red herring) of course, which is their favorite diversionary tactic. I’ve found that trying to get them to stay on topic is like herding cats. Of course, then they accuse you for not answering their question! I don’t think they really even get my point. Anyway, it’s there for all to see. Thanks for your support and will pray for your tooth situation. I had one of those are they aren’t fun. Merry Christmas!
Thanks Mel— I swear they drive me crazy— and maybe that’s the point — a total distraction of the Truth! You are a faithful servant and defender of the faith!
Well … consider what it says in Proverbs 14 “The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is none who does good.”
It generally does no good to argue with a fool particularly if they are corrupt.
so it seems…. 🙂
Merry Christmas Tom—I’ll gear back up to the fight soon and jump back in the fray
I am sure you will!
Powerful post, Tom! I’ll follow the link when things are quiet late tonight… but thank you for it! Merry Christmas, my courageous and inspiring friend!