Imagine that you suddenly discover a horse that can talk. If you wanted to know what horses think, would you ask that horse, or would you ask some horse “expert”? Well, “history” records that Gulliver chose to talk to the horses.
Truth, however, is stranger than fiction. Most of us seem strangely reluctant to get the truth straight from the horse’s mouth.
So here is an opportunity. Want to know what Catholics believe? Then visit Communio. 
Do we have to be a Catholic to read
Since it is Christmas time,
- The Special Meaning of Mary and Joseph’s “First Born Son”
- The Gospel of Luke, Jesus’ Birth, and Roman Propaganda
- What Did it Mean for Mary to Have Found Favor with God?
If you are like me and enjoy polite debate,
Anyway, we should all keep in mind that both Protestant and Catholic clerics are competitors. Therefore, some bias is unavoidable. So if we are Protestants we should go to Catholics to see what they believe, and if we are Catholics we should go to Protestants. There is no substitute for getting the truth straight from the horse’s mouth.
Good stuff Tom. I visited your linked post, and appreciate the civil tone among things that differ.
For the life of me though, it’s hard to imagine how some folks with bibles in hand, can come to opposite conclusions with things that to me are clear.
I’ve written essays on this very thing extolling the virtues of Mary, without……………without……..without making her co-equal with God, which in fact we would do, IF we say say she was born sinless. Heck, even her own testimony would disagree with this assertion.
Being full of grace is hardly a reason to speak ex-cathedra on something which scripture condemns.
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If all humans had the same set of genes, were strictly logical, and received identical data from the time of birth, I suppose we would all reach the same conclusions about everything, but maybe not. God certainly did not make us all the same.
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I believe love is an universal common denominator in life for everyone whether they are human, animals, or have beliefs in different deities or not..
We need wisdom to prevent ourselves from fostering hatred instead of love in our short span of lives regardless of our religious beliefs.
In my personal opinion, if everyone was a Roman Catholic and followed the basic precepts of the religious beliefs, the world would be a better place.
However, I also have faith that our Creator has a reason for different beliefs.
What we need to do in the meantime is find and practice the two most common denominator which I believe is love and wisdom.
Both have been proven effective in history to eliminate hatred and conflict by us mere mortals.
This has never happened universally yet in history, but that doesn’t mean we should give up, in my opinion.
Regards and goodwill blogging.
.
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Agreed.
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Tom, thanks for opening up the conversation.
First, I believe many Catholics are followers of Jesus and many Protestants are as well. You stated well that the Apostle John “What would bother him most would be the people who call themselves Christian, but refuse to confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, that He is both our God and our Savior.”
I do believe the Immaculate Conception of Mary is in error. The convoluted idea of “original sin” versus “personal sin” is a distinction found no where in the scripture. The idea that Mary was free from sin the moment she was conceived has no Biblical basis that I can see. I’ve read many of the defenses of this believe and can find no references at all to this idea. I have also studied the Greek and the tortured conversation about one Greek word used in only two places stretches the understanding of the original New Testament language. You just “can’t get there from here” as my Dad would say.
I do know that Romans 3:23 clearly says, “All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” I John 1:8 adds, “If any man says he has no sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him.” These texts could not be clearer “How could anyone believe Mary was free from all sin in light of these Scriptures? What’s more, Mary herself said, ‘My soul rejoices in God my savior’ in Luke 1:47. She clearly understood herself to be a sinner if she admits to needing a savior.”
God will be the judge on whether this is important in the long run or not. I really don’t know. I do know what the Bible says and that is all that I think should matter.
Be blessed on this eve of Christ-mas. God is in a great mood!
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Agreed. Like the rest of us I fear theologians sometimes get carried away by their own ideas. Mary, the Mother of Jesus, undoubtedly was a wonderful lady. Nevertheless, we can only admire her. We cannot favor her with any gift more generous than God has already given her. Yet it appears that some God-fearing men tried to do so
The fact that Christians break into different groups and each group worships Jesus in its own way does not much bother me. Left to our own devices, God knows we will do just that. The real problem, as I understand it, arises when we think it is our place to force others to worship our way. This was the evil that blossomed following the start the of the Protestant Reformation. The reforms were needed — even the Catholic Church reformed — but the violence was wrong.
Which Christian Church has the best doctrine? I don’t know. I don’t think we will solve that problem before the Second Coming. Since churches are run by men — all sinners — they all are imperfect. The best each of us can do is pick a church where we feel the love of people who love Jesus Christ. The best each of us can do is to pick a church that helps us to love God above all else and our neighbors as we love our self.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
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Excellent post, Tom! Merry Christmas!
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What I appreciate from Tom is the conversation. There are Catholics and Protestants who are against ecumenical discussion, but I’d rather be friends with my Protestant Brothers and Sisters. I even attempt at times to address us all in my own language as Christians.
I do believe there will come a time in maybe in a generation where they will line us up and those who do the lining up won’t ask if we’re Baptist, Evangelical, Anglican, Lutheran, Catholic etc. They ask, “is Jesus God?” Or “ Are you Christian?”
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I heartily agree. In fact that already happens in some parts of the world.
Odd as it may seem, Christian persecutors use your questions, essentially the same test John gave us, to test the “spirits”. Hence, our sectarianism is a very foolish thing, and Jesus seems to have taught against it.
That is, at least some take this passage as an injunction against sectarianism.
Knowing how stupid we can be, is it likely Jesus thought doctrinal purity was especially important? What He seemed to stress above all was putting our faith in Him, not our own peculiar interpretations of scripture.
Perhaps you have a better take on it, but I have wondered about Jesus’ words when at the Last Supper He washed his disciple’s feet and Peter at first objected.
I think Jesus wanted His apostles to understand our salvation is about what Jesus has done to redeem us. We have to be humble enough to admit how much we need Him. When in pride we try to make it about us or refuse to obey Him, we can have no part with Him.
Therefore, the principle thing that makes someone a disciple of Jesus Christ is their answer to your questions, “is Jesus God?” Or “Are you Christian?”
1-3 John provides basic instructions for testing the “spirits”. This passage seems to me to be the crux of it, and it is about those questions.
So it is I think as you suggest. If John came back to teach us today, he would find much to correct in both Catholics and Protestants. Nevertheless, our denominational differences would not be his big concern. What would bother him most would be the people who call themselves Christian, but refuse to confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, that He is both our God and our Savior.
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why am I thinking of Mr Ed?
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Nice…
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