WHAT SHOULD WE MAKE OF THIS? GUNS KILL PEOPLE?

Yesterday an illegal alien got off with one charge, illegal possession of a firearm. That was after he apparently stole a firearm and then killed a young woman, Kate Steinle, with ricochet bullet. Since the facts of the case were not in question, it is apparent that the acquittal of murder charges flabbergasted more than a few people. Rather than repeat what others have already done, here are several posts on the subject.

What is my own opinion? Well, Garcia Zarate, was not suppose to have a gun, and we rarely find stolen guns just lying on the street. Moreover, guns don’t just fire themselves. If you or I were a felon in possession of a stolen gun, and we started firing it in the general direction of other people, we would be put in jail for murder. Our neighbors know that guns don’t kill people, but people with guns can use guns to kill people. The folks in San Francisco, however, apparently have a different standard for Zarate. I wonder why. What is the point in letting this guy off? It makes no sense.

As the posts above indicate, Zarate had a criminal record. It is not obvious why the jury let him off so easy, but they apparently believed that Zarate’s story about finding the gun and firing it accidentally. To fire a gun, we pull the trigger. Who doesn’t know that?

24 thoughts on “WHAT SHOULD WE MAKE OF THIS? GUNS KILL PEOPLE?

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  1. Man may pull the trigger but once the bullet has left the gun, where it goes is up to God.
    Especially in this case.
    One might suggest that divine intervention could have made the ricochet go elsewhere. But to ad insult to injury He got the guy off.

    Like

    1. So it is all God’s fault? When I was growing up, my father bought a pool table and put it in our basement. So it is that my brothers and sisters and I learned about the physics of ricochets.

      Now if we talking about a golf ball instead of a bullet, I might agree. Once someone hits a golf ball, where that darn thing is going is an act of God.

      The concept of free will is complicated, but Christians generally believe in freedom. If we are to be free, then we must accept the consequences of our actions. As a security guy you should already know that that includes the consequence of pulling the trigger on a gun. We have to be careful to exercise good judgement when we pull the trigger and where we point the gun.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I know I said it (above) and implied some (if not all) responsibility falls with God. Honestly, in the application of the laws of man I don’t believe that at all. I am as mystified as everyone here as to how this guy got totally off without even a manslaughter charge.
        But I mentioned the “God is to blame” remark to try and place things in context for thought. Quite literally in life events occur that just simply cannot neatly be placed or categorized with sound reasons of human fallibility. It’s called “shit happens”. So then who (or what) IS responsible when unexplainable “shit happens”?
        For example, if we Biblically interpret that God knows all, sees all, and knows our futures… then is it not logical to presume (as far as religion is logical at all) that God knew before Zarate was even born that one day he would be involved with the death of another human being? Again, if God is in control of all events then why did He allow this? Then you might cite the gift of free-will for humanity.. but how does free-will exist in a predetermined existence?
        When we pray are we then trying to appeal for clemency on a path already chosen for us? How do we know that our prayers “were answered” when in fact the path was already determined from before birth?
        “Please help me to deal with my burden, but certainly let thy will be done.” Well, presumably He doesn’t need our permission or acceptance of His actions. His will, will always be done. That’s the given. Hence it was His will that Zarate was to kill Steinle.

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        1. God is in control is not a cop-out. Go look up Romans 8:28. Ultimately, everything that happens happens according to the will of our Creator. No argument, and sometimes things just happen. In August most days can be sunny and warm. Then a hurricane can blow down your house.

          Yet consider that we still have free will. God allows us to make choices, and He incorporates our choices into His plans. When we make bad choices, we have to put up with the consequences. If we are evil, then we will try to make others responsible for the bad consequences of our bad choices, but doing that just makes our life even more miserable. That is especially relevant in the afterlife.

          Was it His will that Kate Steinle died that day? Yes, but we still have a free will. Zarate did not have to steal and fire that gun. The same Creator God who numbers our days also insists that we treat murder as a horrid sin.

          The people in that court room had a responsibility, and it does not look like they did what they were supposed to do. We need to consider why, not blame God.

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        2. God aside (only for the moment)… while we are all somewhat appalled at that trial that set him free… consider this. The judicial “system” actually worked, and worked well. The jury did their job as any jury would. But what we so often forget in trials when we assign travesty to bad sentencing.. are the lawyers themselves. I sense very strongly that the prosecution did not do their job well. Remember, the jury can only render a decision based on the evidence and principles as presented in court. This sounds like bad lawyering. There is no politics in any of this.

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        3. @Doug

          No politics? Really?

          You may have a point about inept prosecuting, but no politics? Look up the definition of the word.
          1. The judge and the prosecutor are effectively political appointees.
          2. Jury selection is a political process. The way prosecutors and defense attorneys throw people off juries has become almost as important as the trial.
          3. The defendant had illegally crossed the border five times, and he had a record. San Francisco was providing him sanctuary anyway.
          4. A trial is a political process.
          5. The verdict itself, even from the jury, is a political decision.
          6. And so forth.

          Did the jury do its job well? I have not got the time to second guess them, but I doubt it. It depends upon how much information the prosecutor was allowed to give them about Zarate. Apparently, they did not know he was an illegal immigrant who had broken into the country five times. National news story. The murder is an issue in a presidential campaign. They are serving on the jury, and they are that ignorant? These people are going to make the judicial system work? Please explain how.

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    2. Didn’t God design man?
      So, really God pulled the trigger indirectly in this case too!
      He sure do work in mystarius ways.

      I’m going to assume you were inebriated when you made that post.
      ‘Tis the season.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. One of the articles/blog posts I read today claims that the jury was not told about his multiple deportations. That leads me to suspect that his criminal history was also not brought up.

    I do wonder why they went for murder instead of manslaughter. In most states, at least the ones that I am familiar with, there is an “intent to kill” part implied in murder. Manslaughter usually covers things like “gee, I didn’t know it was loaded”.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I don’t know all the details. I just know enough to be justifiably horrified. What is happening to California and other Liberal Democrat enclaves in this country does not make sense. People are making too many indefensible decisions.

      When we look at a place like Venezuela, we should all be wondering why the people of that nation allowed bad men to destroy their prosperity. What foolishness possessed them?

      Here (=> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/nov/30/editorial-socialist-experiment-has-made-misery-in-/) The Washington Times has an editorial on Venezuela collapse into despotic poverty. The editorial focuses on the despots; it ignores the role of the people. Yet truth be told although Hugo Chavez may have been and Nicolas Maduro may still be scoundrels of the worst sort, but both have some claim to legitimacy.

      As a whole Venezuela has the government it deserves. When we are more concerned about our own agenda than we are the welfare of our neighbors bad things happen. Socialism is thievery. When the people of Venezuela voted for Socialism, they voted to rob their neighbors. They voted to put thieves in charge of their country, and those thieves did what thieves do.

      Where thieves rule, justice suffers.

      Liked by 1 person

  3. You make some very good points. Very well said.

    In my opinion the prosecutor purposely when out of his way to keep the Mexican’s criminal history and deportations out of the trial. Normally that is the Defense Attorney’s job. In addition the felony murder rule should have been prosecuted …. note the example:

    1.4. The felony-murder rule

    California’s felony-murder rule applies to both first- and second-degree murder. It essentially creates murder liability for individuals.or their accomplices.who kill another person during the commission of a dangerous felony.

    Under California murder law, there is no requirement that you kill the victim in furtherance of the underlying felony. In fact, any death that is logically related to the felony will suffice, regardless of whether it was intentional, accidental, or negligent.9 This means that even unforeseeable deaths will subject you to murder charges, so long as there is more than a mere coincidence between the time and place of the murder and the other felony.

    Example: John enters a gas station with a gun in order to rob the attendant. When the attendant doesn’t immediately comply with John’s demands, John fires a warning shot into the air. The bullet ricochets off the ceiling and hits the attendant. Even though John didn’t intend to kill the attendant.but rather only intended to scare him.he is liable for murder under California’s felony-murder rule.

    https://www.shouselaw.com/murder.html

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    1. @ror1774

      I think the problem here is figuring out what felony Zarate was willfully violating when he pulled the trigger. The prosecutor apparently decided to go directly for murder. Your reference stipulates the elements of murder as follows:

      1.7. Elements of murder

      In order to prove that you are guilty of violating California’s murder law, the prosecutor must prove the following three facts (otherwise known as “elements of the offense”):

      that you committed an act that resulted in death to another person (or a fetus),
      that you committed the act with malice aforethought, and
      that you killed without lawful excuse or justification.1

      The notion that we can read the mind of a defendant is presumptuous, but Zarate’s jury apparently tried, Of course, they failed and that left a reasonable doubt. Stupid!

      If you have a gun, and you pull the trigger where you have no business pulling the trigger, you are responsible for what the bullet hits. If you are a felon with a stolen weapon, you are a murderer.

      Was the shooting of Kate Steinie senseless? Yes, but that is no reason to let Zarate off, but the jury did let him off because it was senseless. Think about that.

      Like

  4. You have keep in mind that the jury pool came not just from liberal blue state California, but from the uber Marxist Bay Area, of which the people there who willing to secede from the nation because Donald Trump is President. There is not a doubt in my mind that the jury’s atrocious decision was politically based to make a statement against Tump who had highlighted the Kate Steinle tragedy during the campaign to rally against the idiocy of sanctuary cities and the fact that this beautiful young woman would be alive today if the San Francisco authorities had handed over Zarate to Ice as mandated by federal law.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Well, you live out that way. I am in faraway Virginia. I can only scratch my head and wonder. Nancy Pelosi, however, does make it easy to agree with you.

      I just hope that my fellow citizens in Virginia start paying attention to what is happening in blue states. After this last election, it is clear we have moved pass the tipping point. If we lose the General Assembly, we won’t even be able to slow down the insanity of the Liberal Democrats.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. @CT

    Of course the entire jury process re. Kate. S. was political as you say. The results while not expected, were predicable.

    Minutes after the verdict, you saw the sleazy lawyer strut the ‘politics,’ and for those of us who were not in the courtroom, we can be sure all their teams words were filtered through an agenda…………..an agenda to paint a killer as a model boy scout. That’s a fact.

    His seedbed of evil was planted in his history as a FELON which grew courtesy of the leftist politics of CA. Read it people: FELON. Not your average boy scout.

    Above that, the prosecutors case must have been equally terrible. Where was the outrage? How did this case not bring justice? Oh wait, it was justice. It was a harboring city. Yep, criminals get all the justice they deserve………..

    But wait there’s more. Where is PETA? Was there not an attempted killing of a sea creature?????????? Are not these watery beasts on par with humans in the worldview of the godless?????????

    But yes, another sham trial.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Well, if it was not about politics, the sleazy lawyer sure did not waste any time making it about politics. Given the nature of the case, the nature of the state government, the nature of the local government, and the facts leading up to the trial, it is not credible to suggest it was not about politics all along. Unfortunately, Liberal Democrats just see themselves as right; we are the ones being political. Sigh!

      Were the results predicable? I suppose the prosecutors and defense attorneys were in a position to know. I can only guess about the nature of the jury pool and the ability of defense attorneys in CA to swing a jury their way during jury selection. Even so, since the basic facts were not in dispute (The felon just happened to find the gun and accidentally fired it?), I am appalled by the verdict. What is the reason the jury made that decision? Where is the cause for reasonable doubt?

      Like

      1. I would guess simply lack of intent. Look.. we all know life itself is full of politics.. but that is social politics. And yes.. much might be assigned to jury selection (which, thanks to Hollywood depicting the science of it all giving an edge to the accused, is just as bad as public misconceptions that trails can be wrapped up in 60 minutes, with no commercials.).

        Being called to jury duty is random… unless, of course you want to assign conspiracy theories to that. Jury selection is equally chosen by the defense and the prosecution. Given the law says we are to be judged by our own peers I am assuming it didn’t make much sense rounding up 12 illegal immigrants to serve as jurors. Perhaps the defense or prosecution could have changed venue to Tijuana?
        Again.. I find the verdict appalling, but I am not ready to fault the Constitutional system because of it. I fault the prosecution for coming up short. The passing of guilt must be dependent on the case set up by the prosecution, and not some collective morality that has some basis of looking like a bunch of liberals passing a warm and fuzzy judgement on an illegal alien.

        Like

        1. @Doug

          Who said anything about faulting the Constitution? The case was decided by the laws of California and by a jury chosen in the area where the trial was held. Given that the trial was held in a sanctuary city and state, I think I can be forgiven for being suspicious of the results. Since the Liberal Democrats are methodically wrecking California — and want as many illegal immigrants as they can get — the results of the trial are consistent with such insanity. It just did not occur to me that they would not convict Zarate. I thought they would still treat murder as murder, but that does not seem to be the case.

          Tijuana is in Mexico. Mexicans probably would have convicted Zarate and shot him. At least that now seems to be more likely prospect than where he was tried.

          Like

  6. Recently read an article tangentially related to the topic, this time in Philly.
    https://www.themaven.net/bluelivesmatter/news/philly-lawmaker-moves-to-ban-bulletproof-glass-in-businesses-Saf1_mzuD0qK2UuImYTtkQ

    A bill attempting to outlaw bullet proof glass at Philadelphia “stop and go” convenience stores. It bares mentioning the business owners are almost exclusively Korean-American. So, we have a serious proposal to enact a law that would make it far more dangerous for store owners and their workers. So a business owner sets up shop in a bad part of Philly and doesn’t want to get robbed every other night. How dare they!

    See, to me THIS is an example of the tribalism that will rip this country apart.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. The bulletproof glass was just the most glaring stupidity.
      => http://www.phillymag.com/news/2017/11/29/cindy-bass-stop-go-bulletproof-glass/

      Instead of protecting the rights of people, the lady who proposed the bill is engaging in social engineering. She is telling businesses how to operate their businesses. Effectively, because she does not like “nuisance” establishments”, that is, stop and go stores, she is trying to run a bunch of them out of business with requirements that will make them either unprofitable or too dangerous.

      The reason the crime rate is so high is because of busybodies like that lawmaker. People like her have ruined the schools and chased out business.

      Like

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