BIGOTS FIGHTING BIGOTS

I live near Charlottesville, VA. I can drive there in less than a couple of hours. When my eldest daughter went to college at UVA, I was a regular visitor. It is a beautiful little town. So the violent demonstrations appalled me, but they did not surprise me. We have some hateful people, and they do like to get together.

Here is an article, Dramatic photos of Charlottesville protest turning violent, car ramming crowd leaving 1 dead and 26 injured. Unfortunately, the article contains the usual news media bias. The article tells us specifically who some of the demonstrators are: white nationalists, neo-Nazis and members of the “alt-right”. What does the writer call the “counter-protestors”? Well, they are “anti-facist protesters”.

Here is a video that shows what President Trump had to say about the matter. He took about three minutes out the signing ceremony for the Veteran’s Affairs Act to speak about the events in Charlottesville, VA. His remarks about Charlottesville start about 2 minutes 45 seconds into the video.

Some of our fellow Americans are killing people over statues. That is rather stupid. I wish Democrat Liberals would just leave Confederate statues alone. Removing those statues is not going to change history, and it is important we remember the foolish things over which people fight, but if the people running Charlottesville, VA don’t like Confederate statues that much that is their problem.

As it is, we now we have bunches of the highly disturbed fighting over the silly things. Bigots wanted to remove a statue. Bigots protested the statue’s removal, and so more bigots arrived to counter-protest.

As our president said, we need to love and respect each other, but bigots don’t do that. Instead, they try to encourage us to hate each other. So some bigots will try to encourage people to hate Trump as some sort of white nationalist. Don’t be fooled.

76 thoughts on “BIGOTS FIGHTING BIGOTS

  1. Well,let me try to run interference here between Tom and ancients. First off “alt right” is a huge label,a broad brush that covers everything from white supremacy to red pills, to some fairly decent people who are simply right leaning in their politics. They denounce neo nazis and violence as vehemently as any of us so. The Daily Stormer is not representative of the “Alt Right,” that is one vile and possibly criminal character. “Unite the right” is not really the right at all,as in it does not represent the bulk of the Alt Right as a whole,or the people farther down the continuum,conservatives and republicans

    Conversely however, the Antifa are not all gentle, peace loving leftist, pacifists,they are not simply the resistance,the anti nazi protestors. Many of them are actually paid anarchists. So what we have here is simply flip sides of the same coin, a tiny handful of radicals from around the country attempting to radicalize people and create controversy and conflict.

    So there are many shades of grey going on here all at once, and what we really need is for calmer heads to prevail. Nobody here at Tom’s is defending actual neo nazis as far as I can tell, although some may defend their right to gather and protest. That is not a defense of alt right, white nationalism,it’s a defense of our Constitution. I cannot abide neo Nazis either, but they would totally disappear into obscurity if people stopped responding to them as we do. They feed off of hatred and Antifa is constantly poking them with a stick.

    There are innocent people who keep jumping into this fight,like those bystanders who got mowed down by that car. They have no idea what is going on,how they are being used and unfortunately hurt and even killed sometimes in the process.

    All I can really do is keep asking and praying for calmer heads to prevail and for people to not get pulled into the emotionalism of the moment. The media and the radicals are trying to trigger our emotionalism, they are attempting to write a narrative that isn’t really true at all,but it serves some agendas very well.

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  2. I was hoping to find common ground when you mentioned you did a post on the events that took place in Charlottesville.

    Dietrich Bonhoeffer — ‘Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.’

    First, the title is a disgrace – you have deliberately chosen to equate the actions of neo-Nazis with those who protest hate.

    Over 60 million (60,000,000 – yes, that is people) died in ww2 fighting Nazi ideals… and here you seek to create an equivalency between neo-Nazis and those who oppose them. Shameful and disgraceful.

    From your post and subsequent comments, it is easy to conclude your ignorance of history and for this you can be forgiven. However, I view your opinions as much more sinister – I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

    “White supremacists aren’t patriots, they’re traitors – Americans must unite against hatred & bigotry.” – McCain

    As Senator Hatch said: “We should call evil by its name. My brother didn’t give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home.”

    Ms. Heather Heyer was not a bigot. She spent her career helping those like Trump – those dealing with bankruptcies.

    How much further do you think you can sink in your defense of the indefensible.

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    1. Of course, insanitybytes, I would agree that if they were just left alone there would be no attention drawn to them. As I said in an earlier reply, these white supremasists and neo-nazis are no different from their own founding father from the Fatherland of the 20′ s and 30’s that relished street confrontations (and of course the injured and killed as martyrs) to help illustrate their hatred ideals. Just playing into their hands then.. and now.

      I’m sure few of you reading this even recall the 1975-1977 Constitutional free speech confrontation with uniformed, swastika flag carrying, heii Hitler, neo-nazis petitioning to march smack through predominantly Jewish Skokie, Illinois. It took a year or so but they won in the Surpreme Court the right to do so.. and that community on those days was filled with Holocaust survivors. It had the potential in making Charlotteville look like a picnic in the park by comparison. As it turned out the Court limited their demonstration to a local park, rather than a march through neighborhoods, and while there were some anti-protests the event came and went without any large confrontations. Point being… maybe it’s not our abhorrence so much to what they believe… but our own completely absurd phase of political correctness.. which is just a nice term for having fear in what another person says as having some threat to your life and well-being. Oh, yeah.. we all love free speech……….. as long as your free speech doesn’t infringe on MY free speech. And… your free speech better damn well not offend my personal.. here it comes.. that favorite word….. AGENDA. There are 300+ million people in this country all having an agenda.. yet we use that word as some “dumping ground” for what we personally don’t have in life.

      The whole thing makes me sick. The solution? Just let it run its course. Like a bad kidney stone, this too shall pass. If we end up getting a maverick president someday who lacks any kind of political experience, moral compass, talks gibberish, has no comprehension how to be presidential for all Americans, has no idea that words indeed matter coming from the country’s leader, and is the laughing stock of the world…. then, I might begin to worry.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. @theancients

      I think I can be forgiven for equating neo-Nazis with equally violent neo-Communists/Anarchist. If you have looked at the pictures and followed the news, it is hard to miss the fact that two groups of nut-cases confronted each other in Charlottesville.

      Wrote this post here => https://citizentom.com/2017/08/14/why-the-stubborn-refusal-to-listen/

      That post with insanitybytes22’s comment (here => https://citizentom.com/2017/08/12/bigots-fighting-bigots/#comment-75398) should answer your comment.

      I don’t have much use for John McCain, but that’s another subject. Just think about that quote. “They’re traitors.” I have a low opinion of what white supremacists stand for, but I still think we should reserve words like “traitor” and capital punishment for people who have actually committed treason. Is that too much to ask?

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I agree, Tom. When I read what McCain said using “traitors” I was a bit dismayed as well. It’s one thing to object to political opinion but I saw nothing traitorous. Just an emotional term.

        (Now, this by no means has ANY similarity to my post where I assign “traitorous act against the Constitution” regarding the states seceding that triggered the Civil War. A civic protest is a FAR cry from the conditions leading up to that war.)

        Liked by 1 person

  3. Glad to get your perspective on this mess and your title says it all. I don’t think the President is a racists or has any sympathy with KKK supporters and/or neo Nazis and the left trying to apply their broad brush to paint everyone on the right as part of this noxious group is appalling yet not at all surprising.

    All the more reason in my mind for the President to be much more harsh and strong in his words about this group. His statement was lame and feeds in to the pitch fork left’s narrative about right wing sympathy for racists pigs.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. The Democrats deliberately staged provocative demonstrations at some of Trump’s rallies. They were trying to provoke violence, and that fact has been documented. I suspect that is why Trump blamed both sides.

      As a leader, Trump’s job is not about taking sides against any group of citizens. His task is to prosecute illegal behavior, and both sides engaged in illegal behavior.

      Is what the white nationalists stand for despicable? Of course, but what is admirable about attacking them what they demonstrate? What gives the so-called counter protesters the right to deny anyone their right to free speech?

      If you want to know what someone stands for, it is a good idea to let them talk. If what they stand for is awful, then we will know.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I agree with you Tom in that they have the right to protest (never said they shouldn’t) and I think speaking out against this ridiculous trend of taking down offensive statues is fine. It is also most certainly true that the far left interferes with and is deliberately provocative at right wing rallies. The organizers of this march however are known anti-Semites and bigots and people were shown doing the Nazi salute and spouting Nazi sayings. The name of the march was “Unite for the Right” and I think the President should say loudly and clearly “not in my name.”

        Liked by 1 person

      2. They were trying to provoke violence, and that fact has been documented.

        I seem to have missed that story. Do you happen to have a link/links where I could read up? Or more details that would make a search easier (names, places, …)? TIA

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          1. @marmoewp

            Such is what some people in the mainstream say. Given some of the stunts we have caught the mainstream media doing, I tend to give the videos some credence.

            If you are a Democrat, it is ridiculously stupid to show up at Trump rally, which are supposedly notorious gatherings of violent people and start taunting them. Yet that is what people did, and O’Keefe says the Democrats organized such people.

            So take your pick.
            1. The Trump rallies were relatively peaceful, and the news media just lied.
            2. Some insane people showed up at the Trump rallies, taunted the crowd, and some got roughed up.
            3. The Democrats “bird-dogged” the Trump rallies so that the news media could get pictures showing that Trump’s supporters are savages.

            Since there is no good for a Democrat to show up at a Trump rally except to listen quietly or bird-dog the crowd, the only issue is whether the Democrats organized the bird-dogs. The videos strongly suggest somebody organized the bird-doggers.

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        1. So now demonstrations have become individuals at Trump rallys who supposedly did not do the provocation on their own but were coordinated by the Democratic party. Sorry, I am getting wiplash from the moving of the goalposts. I am just curious how the Democrats managed to have Trump egg on those people roughing up the interlopers, instead of just letting security take care of them like at Democratic rallys.
          As for O’Keefe, he has enough settlements, convictions and deals with law enforcement to cover his ass to earn his bad reputation.

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          1. O’Keefe has videos of people forming complete sentences. He identifies those people. Those people clearly say what they are doing. How he got them to do it I don’t know. You want to call it a fraud? I cannot stop you, but that is all you are doing.

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  4. James Alex Fields has been identified as the driver of the car that killed a anti-“Unite-the-Right”-protester and injured several others. Comparison of his mug-shot with photos from the Unite-the-Right rally show him as one of the attendants. He is being held w/o bail for murder.

    Charlottesville Driver Who Killed One Rallied With Alt-Right Vanguard America Group
    While speculation still surrounds Fields’ motives, available photography appears to show Fields present at the UTR event with members of Vanguard America, a racist right wing organization that helped Kessler organize the event.

    Fields is the second from the left with the large black shield.

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    1. @marmoewp

      You referenced the SPLC. Why? That group has made itself notorious because it too readily identifies anyone who disagrees with its politics as a hate group.

      That is the basic problem in this country today, and us versus them mentality that is actively encouraged by the mass media. That is why we could not get a decent healthcare bill through Congress. Even though Obamacare is a disaster and transparently unconstitutional, its proponents won’t take no for an answer. They won’t even consider any sort of compromise.

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        1. I have read their so call “hate group”list before. It came to my attention that this group lists anyone who is not in lock-step with their world views as a hate group. I tend not to trust them. American College of Pediatricians is a hate group?!?

          Liked by 1 person

        2. @Wyldkat
          ACAP is an advocay group with an estimated membership of 500. The 64,000 members professional association ís the American Academy of Pediatrics. Could your mystification be caused by mistaking one for the other? If you want to look into why the SPLC considers the former a hate group, I am game.

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          1. The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a national organization of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals dedicated to the health and well-being of children.

            Pediatricians, not law makers. (although some of them may be or may have acted as lobbyist.)

            Why does SPLC list them as hate group?

            The American College of Pediatricians:

            Recognizes that there are absolutes and scientific truths that transcend relative social considerations of the day.
            Recognizes that good medical science cannot exist in a moral vacuum and pledges to promote such science.
            Recognizes the fundamental mother-father family unit, within the context of marriage, to be the optimal setting for the development and nurturing of children and pledges to promote this unit.*
            Recognizes the unique value of every human life from the time of conception to natural death and pledges to promote research and clinical practice that provides for the healthiest outcome of the child from conception to adulthood.
            Recognizes the essential role parents play in encouraging and correcting the child and pledges to protect and promote this role.
            Recognizes the physical and emotional benefits of sexual abstinence until marriage and pledges to promote this behavior as the ideal for adolescence.*
            Recognizes that health professionals caring for children must maintain high ethical and scientific standards and pledges to promote such practice.
            Recognizes the vital role the College has in promoting quality education for parents, physicians, and other health professionals.

            The Objectives of the College are:

            To foster and stimulate improvements in all aspects of healthcare of infants, children, and adolescents;
            To promote the basic father-mother family unit as the optimal setting for childhood development, while pledging to support all children, regardless of their circumstances;*
            To affirm that parents have the inalienable right and responsibility to educate and rear their children;
            To advocate for children at all stages of development, from conception to young adulthood;
            To cultivate and encourage parental responsibility for and involvement in the child’s life;
            To engender the honest interpretation of scientific pediatric research, without deference to current political persuasions; **
            To promote the highest standards of medical practice among its Members and within the field of pediatrics;
            To encourage and support sound, ethical scientific research in all aspects of healthcare for infants, children, and adolescents; and
            To cooperate with other organizations having similar purposes and standards.

            * statement is in opposition to current liberal ideology.
            ** this includes positions such as:
            “Human sexuality is an objective biological binary trait: “XY” and “XX” are genetic markers of male and female, respectively”
            “puberty-blocking hormones can be dangerous.”
            “Rates of suicide are nearly twenty times greater among adults who use cross-sex hormones”
            (taken from their site where references are cited)

            AAPed are doctors expressing a view point different than the liberals who want to make social policy. SPLC is a Liberal group. Like many radical liberal groups, they brand any group that isn’t in lock-step with their thinking as Hate Group.

            Liked by 1 person

          2. That is a good one, but while the SPLC probably treats the US Border Patrol like a hate group they don’t as yet officially list it as one. There is a group called the American Border Patrol they don’t like, and that is probably what you are thinking of.

            Since the SPLC lists as a hate group any organization that wants our government to enforce our border, you are as a practical matter correct, but technically wrong.

            Here is how the SPLC talks about people they don’t like.
            https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/07/07/trump-adviser-hate-group-leaders-and-anti-immigrant-politicians-attend-fair%E2%80%99s-hold-their

            The National Border Patrol Council is an employee union for the U.S. Border Patrol. I guess the SPLC has not listed that as a hate group, but they may be considering it.
            http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-border-patrol-was-primed-for-president-trump

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          3. You’re probably right. There are three “Border Patrols” listed in their General Hate secretion under ‘ANTI-IMMIGRANT”. But not the actual U.S. Border Patrol. Still strikes me as odd that anyone would consider protecting the borders as Hate Crimes.

            Liked by 1 person

        3. I’ll come back to ACPed, addressing Border Patrol is quicker.

          SPLC is listing the “American Border Patrol” in Sierra Vista, AZ, NOT the “US Border Patrol”

          from SPLC:
          In its own words
          “A misguided immigration policy and a hostile force on our border are threatening the bonds of our union. If she is to survive, America needs leaders who will fight for her. Leaders who will control our border. Leaders who will repel invaders. Leaders who will put an end to the cultural cancer which is eating at the very heart of our nation. America and her western civilization must be rescued if she is to make her date with destiny in the twenty first century.”
          — Voice of Citizens Together video, “Immigration: Threatening the Bonds of Our Union,” 1999

          Is the concept of misguiding names still alien to you?

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          1. @marmoewp

            I don’t know much about the American Border Patrol. Hate group? I don’t know, but I am puzzled. What is it about that quote that makes the “American Border Patrol” a hate group?

            I know people are leaving California. The state is going broke. For all practical purposes California is a one party state. Not that long ago Californians elected Ronald Reagan as their governor. Could not happen now. No chance of it.

            Here is some information from a think tank, probably biased towards immigration, but even their “just the facts” suggests a problem.
            => http://www.ppic.org/publication/immigrants-in-california/

            One in four people in the state were not born there? In a state that populous, that’s crazy!

            Foreign-born residents accounted for 71% of state residents without a high school diploma and 31% of college-educated residents.

            Most of the people without a high school degree are immigrants. Why admit them in the first place? They will do jobs Americans won’t do? That’s the Democrat Liberal’s bigoted excuse, but don’t slaves do jobs their masters won’t do? So we need slaves? That excuse was used. Only blacks could stand the heat and pick cotton.

            Work needs to be done? Then the people who need the work done should pay someone what getting work done is worth to them, not break the law and hire an illegal immigrant. Otherwise, they should do the work themselves.

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        4. @Tom
          Dehumanizing immigrants by calling them a “cultural cancer”, i.e. equating them to a disease, fits the bill for me. If that were the only evidence, it would be a flimsy case. You may want to read the rest of the SPLC page an ABP, though.

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          1. @marmoewp

            That quote does not dehumanized anybody. Illegal immigration is a cultural cancer, not the immigrants.

            The United States is a constitutional republic. That form of government is part of our culture, and it depends upon an informed citizenry which values this form of government as part of their heritage.

            So what is the problem, the cancer? We cannot maintain a constitutional republic, throw open our borders, and run a welfare state all at the same time. It won’t work.

            We have attracted millions of poorly educated people who cannot even speak our language. These people are effectively invaders (illegal immigrants) and a threat to our culture. As your quote makes perfectly clear, the problem, however, resides in the leadership, the leadership’s refusal to enforce the law.

            Most of the people I know who are furious about the immigration issue don’t blame the illegal immigrants. Why get mad at someone for doing the same thing you would do if you were in their shoes? What we get angry about is leaders who will not enforce laws that are on the books. 80 percent of the country wants something done and they still refused. That is why Trump is president.

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        5. You’re probably right. There are three “Border Patrols” listed in their General Hate secretion under ‘ANTI-IMMIGRANT”. But not the actual U.S. Border Patrol. Still strikes me as odd that anyone would consider protecting the borders as Hate Crimes.

          Border patroling does not a hate group make. Attitudes of the group towards immigrants/non-whites does. When the group is made up of neo-Nazis, can we agree it fits the “hate group” label?
          https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2015/armed-neo-nazis-%E2%80%98helping%E2%80%99-us-border-patrol

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