I live near Charlottesville, VA. I can drive there in less than a couple of hours. When my eldest daughter went to college at UVA, I was a regular visitor. It is a beautiful little town. So the violent demonstrations appalled me, but they did not surprise me. We have some hateful people, and they do like to get together.

Here is an article, Dramatic photos of Charlottesville protest turning violent, car ramming crowd leaving 1 dead and 26 injured. Unfortunately, the article contains the usual news media bias. The article tells us specifically who some of the demonstrators are: white nationalists, neo-Nazis and members of the “alt-right”. What does the writer call the “counter-protestors”? Well, they are “anti-facist protesters”.

Here is a video that shows what President Trump had to say about the matter. He took about three minutes out the signing ceremony for the Veteran’s Affairs Act to speak about the events in Charlottesville, VA. His remarks about Charlottesville start about 2 minutes 45 seconds into the video.

Some of our fellow Americans are killing people over statues. That is rather stupid. I wish Democrat Liberals would just leave Confederate statues alone. Removing those statues is not going to change history, and it is important we remember the foolish things over which people fight, but if the people running Charlottesville, VA don’t like Confederate statues that much that is their problem.

As it is, we now we have bunches of the highly disturbed fighting over the silly things. Bigots wanted to remove a statue. Bigots protested the statue’s removal, and so more bigots arrived to counter-protest.

As our president said, we need to love and respect each other, but bigots don’t do that. Instead, they try to encourage us to hate each other. So some bigots will try to encourage people to hate Trump as some sort of white nationalist. Don’t be fooled.


  1. I was desperately seeking a reason to take sides on this incident.

    But it is like you say, two opposing groups of bigots fighting each other.

    Our culture is definitely devolving back to the same future that brought the human race The Great War and World War II.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I am puzzled the police don’t seem interested in arresting more of these folks, but Charlottesville has a Democrat mayor and Virginia has a Democrat governor. Law and order is not their forte.


  2. Well said,Tom. I was wondering when you might weigh in on this!

    Unreported on the news of course,are the thousands of prayer warriors all over the place who have been praying peace over this planned encounter for months, millions of people speaking the truth in love and refusing to participate in any kind of hatred at all. That is quite wonderful and puts back into perspective the sheer silliness of a few hundred lunkheads of various political stripes deciding to hold a brawl. Stupid is as stupid doesI suppose,and much of the stupid has been bussed in even, some possibly even paid.

    “Antifa” by the way, is short for anti-fascist, a somewhat ridiculous name,since they pride themselves on carrying wooden shields and attempting to act like jack booted thugs. Neo Nazis and the far right are no better, but they would simply die of neglect if the Antifa would just stop poking them in the head.

    Quite clearly Donald Trump does not support white supremacy or the violent behavior of the alt-right. Something I find interesting, many people you would think to label “alt-right,” also do not support it. Milo has been on facebook and twitter denouncing it, as have some others.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Won’t stop the news media from labeling everyone they oppose as fascists, unfortunately. Kind of difficult to run a republic without decent reporters. We still have a few decent reporters, but we also have plenty of propagandists propagating big lies.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. I tend to agree.. but having a bit of an open mind helps also. Here’s my observation of this… for the reasons the politically correct and African-Americans have wanted the confederate statues removed from government-owned public places, and city parks renamed, is exactly the reasons those KKK folks and neo-everythings are fighting back… racism, pure and simple.
    The symbols of the Confederacy are being removed from public parks and buildings, but they are being stored and then relocated.. not destroyed or desecrated. I am sure the white supremacists, under the guise of some civic club or charitable organization, can purchase some property and create their own picnic park collection of monuments to past Confederate leaders… or build a museum. Or better yet, run for office and change things back with a majority.


    1. The statues should be left where they are. That they are where they are is a part of history and important to their educational value.

      Robert E. Lee, unless someone insists upon rewriting history, was a great man. Perfect? No. None of us are.

      When we read about the Civil War, and we look into its background, with a little careful study we can find plenty of guilt to go around. Some people like to blame just white people for slavery, but the custom was worldwide. In fact. the word slave comes from Slav. Because of their history, the Slavic peoples, white, are still xenophobic and the why of that is not difficult to understand.

      How did the owners of slave ships acquire cargo the Atlantic crossing? They bought them from blacks in Africa. Blacks sold blacks.

      Why did the whites in the North of this country find slavery more repellent than those in the South. Did they think more highly of blacks? No. The whites in this country found slavery most economical in the South. Many of the crops grown in the South benefited from year around attention. Those grown in the North only required seasonal labor. So the economics drove slavery south, not virtue.

      What the men in the North found disgusting about slavery is many worked with their hands. In the South slaves performed the labor they took pride in performing well.

      Those are the kind of discussions those Confederate statues and monuments should inspire, not some damn censorship and history rewrite from bureaucrats.

      Unfortunately, all the news media wants to talk about is how Trump is encouraging neo-Nazis. That is rubbish.

      Even blacks, especially blacks should want those statues to stay.

      Eugene Williams, 89, a former head of the local N.A.A.C.P., served sweet tea on the front porch of his house on Ridge Street one day this week and recalled the days when he was not allowed to dine at local restaurants. He favors keeping the Lee statue because he wants people to remember the Jim Crow era.

      “This statue has a lesson to teach us,” he said. (from

      What do we have instead? Who is dominating the discussion? A bunch of thoughtless, violent people. These have forgotten it is not someone else who makes slavery possible. It is that guy in the mirror who uses his neighbor instead of loving him.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Citizen Tom, Robert E. Lee are great man? You know I claim Lincoln to be great too, but there are those out there that shout Tyrant. Also, Folks will claim Grant was great too, but then again, other will yell drunk. Teddy Roosevelt is called great, but Mark Twain claimed idiot–and I call Twain a great man.

        The funny thing about history, is that it distinctly human, and that we treat historic figures much like all of our relationships

        Liked by 1 person

        1. The funny thing about history, is that it distinctly human, and that we treat historic figures much like all of our relationships.

          If you ever become one those historic figure, people will certainly quote that line.

          Liked by 1 person

        2. Mr. Augustine… I was zipping through here to read another post and the slide past your post here caught my attention; I had to scroll back. 🙂 Not often does one reply with a more humanistic reason for things (my weakness… or strength, depending on the day of the week).
          Excellent. We do treat our historical figures with a measure much like real life relationships. On the other hand, I’m not likely to divorce Lincoln as time goes on, nor am I likely to hit on Queen Victoria and expect something in return, either. It’s not quite like meeting someone in a bar. 🙂

          Liked by 2 people

        3. I will say that I’ve had great historical interest in many of he founding fathers; however, overtime, I have gotten tired of them in a manner of speaking. It’s true that I can’t divorce them m; however, I can stop paying them any mind in my studies.


      2. Not sure I follow your thought, Tom. On one hand you are calling Lee a great man.. and then you cite the concept of leaving the statues there as a remembrance to the slavery of the South… as a kind of reminder of the guilt they should have in retrospect.

        Honestly, I have mixed feelings about it. I mean… for reasons that are far more relevant than most bring up in here. For one thing, the South in the 19th century were defending a way of life that included slavery. Ok.. they had their time.. they had their struggle in time. These neo-racists aren’t anything like that. They aren’t defending any previous way of life that any of them, nor their immediate ancestors, ever experienced. They are simply raising hell because of their own sorry lot in life; latching on to the Second Amendment as if it were the only Amendment; preferring to assert their right as Americans to decide when to tear it all down and make “whiteness” great again… whatever the hell that means. To blame Jews and immigrants from anywhere and everywhere, and black Americans, as the reason for all their economic troubles (yes.. it’s entirely about money… or lack thereof). They aren’t fighting to return to some good old days… they were never a part of those days to even know what they were like.

        BUT.. they are entitled to their opinion and that is one of the many rights I swore I’d uphold. They are NOT entitled to physically assert their anger on me. It’s not about a bunch of damn statues.


        1. John 8:7 New King James Version (NKJV)

          7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”

          In our pride, we are each tempted to cast that first stone. Then we have that question. Who am I to judge? Am I without sin? No? Then like everyone else I must sit down my stone.

          Why do I call Robert E. Lee great? He did what great men do. He accepted his part in a cause greater than himself. He led men ably and inspired them to great feats valor.

          Yet slavery is wrong. When the South seceded because the South was unwilling even to accept the criticism of the North, that was wrong, a sin committed in pride. So even if Lee defended the South out loyalty to the state of Virginia, he participated in the defense of an institution, slavery, that is evil.

          Neo-racists? Fascists? So-called “anti-fascist protesters”? Communists? These are manifestations of the same evils, just different excuses for hate-fills mobs. They are dangerous because we all take too much pleasure in elevating ourselves over someone else by hating them. We each are too ready to join a mob.

          Lots of people in the South have proud memories of ancestors who fought honorably in the Civil War. The Rebel flag was their battle flag. It is is stupid to let a bunch of bigots twist these things just because it serves the purposes of another bunch of bigots, a bunch more highly approved by the news media.

          When tyrants need an enemy to excuse their excesses, they make one up. Hence the lunacy over Confederate monuments. Because their policies never work, Democrat Liberal politicians need an enemy.

          When the news media needs a story, because we are too easily tempted they go with sex and violence. They don’t tell us what we need to know. They show us what we want, and they weave a lying narrative into their garbage.


        2. As I said, I’ve not come to grips with some personally decisive opinion on this as there is some merit to both sides. But here’s an observation on what you just replied, Tom…
          You wrote… “Lots of people in the South have proud memories of ancestors who fought honorably in the Civil War. The Rebel flag was their battle flag.”

          That may well be.. but the bottom line was that the South expressly and intentionally defied the Constitution to #1, secede, and #2, engage in open revolt… a traitorous act to the Constitution of the United States. I’m not sure how one might express some honor to an ancestor who took up arms against their government.. and the rebel flag stands for that open revolt that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands.

          On the other hand… I think after four years of bloodshed it was exactly correct that the Southern army be allowed to simply go home… and that no retribution or reparations be demanded by the federal government. In the end these are fellow Americans… the conflict was over. The entire nation learned a very costly historical lesson. But partly to justify the loss of lives in the South was not in vain they built the statues, honored the dead in cemeteries, and held in reverence the battlefields in which they fought. The North did the same.. but the North were the victors… no… the Constitution of our founding fathers was defended by the North and that document was the victor.

          Here’s the issue that I see. Our current issues with racism had seeds in the post-war Southern states. The humiliation of the loss of the war coupled with the vanishing of their lifestyle overnight, complete regional economic disaster and financial depression, and black Americans establishing their new-found freedoms.. specifically their right to vote… became the great catalyst for transferring that residual hate and defiance toward black Americans. Hence the rise of the KKK and the subsequent political defiance of newly created Washington D.C. federal programs to acclimate black Americans, where most southern states simply aggravated black freedoms that lasted a hundred+ years until the Civil Rights Movement.

          Also keep in mind… the KKK of the day did not use the rebel stars & bars as a standard… nor that King George cross. That has been traced back to the silent version of Birth Of A Nation by D.W. Griffith in 1915. Honestly.. it seems like all the symbols and events we attribute to slavery and post-Civil War persecution of black Americans has been skewed and bastardized. But that can’t be changed now.

          I tend to feel that these far right racist nutjobs, who may or may not have Civil War ancestors who fought for the South, are not honoring their ancestors one bit with their actions and feelings. They have NO concept of the world their ancestors lived in. They are just trying to justify their prejudices and find economic scapegoats for their own contemporary shortcomings.


        3. Traitorous? Perhaps some Northerners saw it that way, but not many. Most readily understood that word did not apply.

          With respect to the Civil War I have not heard that word traitor get much use until this silly argument over the Confederate monuments started. It has shock value, but it does not make any sense. To what enemy did the South betray the North?

          When the South seceded that was hardly a stab in the back operation. Moreover, the Constitution does not clearly state the ground rules for leaving the Union. When South Carolina attacked Fort Sumter, that was kind of stupid. That’s what put the North in a mood to fight.

          Reconstruction was not good period for the South. The KKK came into existence as an enforcement arm of the Democratic Party.

          Here is post that considers the Rebel Flag.

          Wikipedia has pictures:

          The nut-jobs are the ones who have time to participate in violent demonstrations. Most other people don’t have much time for that, but that doesn’t mean they support taking those monuments down.

          Don’t we have enough to fight about? Apparently, not. So some people are looking for ways to stoke up whatever divisive fires they can. The nut-jobs make it more easy.


        4. Whoa.. Tom. In spite of our political differences I respect you for many things but it seems you need a refresher course in pre-Civil War history. I’ll not take huge time here.. but i will mention that the Southern states that seceded were indeed traitorous to the Constitution and the government representing it. Some interpretations of the Constitution might suggest that while the document stipulates a process for becoming a state, that there is no definitive action to prohibit a state to leave the union. But prior to the Civil War there was also some legal and Supreme Court reliance in Article 1, section 10… “No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation….” to which the South did among the seceded states. Hence Lincoln referred to the war as a war of rebellion, thus indicating states could not secede and were, in fact, still part of the United States… thus making the war actually an effort of a police action to suppress insurrection. This also challenges your other remark that the North was more itching for a war than the South. The North was ill-prepared for any sort of military action at the time of Ft. Sumter. “War fever” was a Southern affliction.


        5. @Doug

          Before you argue that that states in the Confederacy had to abide Article 1, Section 10, you have to show they did not have the authority to leave the Union. The Constitution does not address that.

          The best I have been able to come up with is Article III, Section 4.

          As a Christian, I think what the South did was terribly wrong. Illegal? I don’t think anyone could have said that then. However, one could argue that the people of the South should have understood the immorality of their decision, but they did not seem to do so, and they fought with valor.

          At the time the Civil War began,, Federal power was still not that great. The states still had most of the authority, not the Federal Government.

          One of the remarkable things Lincoln accomplished was to keep the Union unified long enough to bring the Southern states back into the fold. Had he not succeeded, the Union may have collapsed.

          Lincoln did succeed. In fact, the war settled the matter. No state could leave the Union. This is something many do not appreciate. Only after the war did everyone understand no state would be allowed to secede. So many had died the matter was settled. That was part of the message of Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address.

          Check out

          Here Lincoln made what essentially is an emotional appeal. He focused more on practical issues rather than legal ones.



      3. How about leaving the statue and adding a large plaque readable from long distance:
        “In memory of a great, brave strategist, who chose to fight to uphold Slavery.”
        Accompanied by a small, educational museum beneath the statue on the history of Slavery in the South.


        1. How about just sticking children in a classroom for 13 years, indoctrinating them with politically correct thoughts, and calling that their “free education”?


        2. @marmoewp
          I did not respond in jest. I thoroughly object to government officials telling us what to think. With few exceptions, I don’t think statues and such things belong on government property. If it was not government official, who do you think created the problem we are debating?

          Look at your own history. Look at the USSR. Look at how half of America reacted to Obama. Consider how the other half now reacts to Trump. Yet that other half still wants the Federal Government to set up a national curriculum? That’s insane! There is nothing logical about it. These people are just foolish enough to think that the Democrats control of the teacher unions and the educational bureaucracy will somehow protect them from politicians they don’t like. What goes right over their heads is that if they can uses the government to force their ideas on other people, other people can use the government to force ideas upon them that they don’t support. What goes right over their heads is how vulnerable children are to such insidious, pervasive propaganda.


  4. Bravo, Tom! Our history will soon be obsolete if we cave to political correctness. Our governor in MN wanted to remove all art in the capitol that showed any violence or war. If we learn anything on how to move forward, it is from whence we came.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Such Left-Wing pundits as I’ve seen so far have been sneering at Trump for not mentioning the Alt-Right by name, even though this is like the third or fourth time he’s publically denounced. Jeff Sessions also issued a statement and so did Paul Ryan.

    The whole statute controversy could be stopped by Charlottesville simply electing a new mayor. That’s how the forces who wanted it removed did it, after all.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I have not spent a bunch of time looking into the politics in Charlottesville, but it is a university town. Thanks to lots and lots of Federal money, our universities lean outrageously to the left.


  6. The article tells us specifically who some of the demonstrators are: white nationalists, neo-Nazis and members of the “alt-right”.

    The rally on Friday was called “Unite the Right” organized by Jason Kessler, who amongst other writes for VDARE. Maybe not everyone at the rally was a white suprecmacist or neo-nazi, but here is a crash course to spotting some of them:×2000/920×613/filters:focal(1961×614:2441×1094):format(webp)/

    I am happy to see, that unlike your “on many sides” President, there are Republican politicians who still call out these marchers and the murder that has been committed for what they are:


    1. @marmoewp

      I linked in my post to an article with the same pictures.

      I titled the post “Bigots Fighting Bigots”. Think about that.

      There are over 300 million people in this country. Quite a few of us live on our east coast. Out of a population that large, it is not that hard to get a bunch of lunatics to participate in a disorderly demonstration.

      Because there a fewer of them, it is more difficult to get large numbers white racists to demonstrate. However, when white racists do demonstrate, getting a “counter demonstration” together is a piece of cake (


  7. My original comment was held up in moderation by the blog software, because I put too many links into it. Here’s part of the post with links replaced by content

    The article tells us specifically who some of the demonstrators are: white nationalists, neo-Nazis and members of the “alt-right”.

    The rally on Friday was called “Unite the Right” organized by Jason Kessler (link to his blog), who amongst others writes for VDARE. Maybe not everyone at the rally was a white suprecmacist or neo-nazi, but here is a crash course to spotting some of them: (just one here, there’ll be more once Tom clears the original comment)

    I am happy to see, that unlike your “on many sides” President, there are Republican politicians who forcefully call out these marchers and the murder that has been committed for what they are. (links in the original comment)

    Senator Marco Rubio
    Very important for the nation to hear @potus describe events in #Charlottesville for what they are, a terror attack by #whitesupremacists

    Senator Cory Gardner
    Praying for those hurt & killed today in Charlottesville. This is nothing short of domestic terrorism & should be named as such.
    Mr. President – we must call evil by its name. These were white supremacists and this was domestic terrorism.

    Senator Orrin Hatch
    We should call evil by its name. My brother didn’t give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home. -OGH

    Senator Rob Portman
    The tragedy in Charlottesville this afternoon was domestic terrorism. We must all condemn hatred and white nationalism.

    Senator John McCain
    “Our Founders fought a revolution for the idea that all men are created equal. The heirs of that revolution fought a Civil War to save our nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to that revolutionary proposition.”

    “Nothing less is at stake on the streets of Charlottesville, Virginia, where a violent attack has taken at least one American life and injured many others in a confrontation between our better angels and our worst demons.”

    “White supremacists and neo-Nazis are, by definition, opposed to American patriotism and the ideals that define us as a people and make our nation special.”

    “As we mourn the tragedy that has occurred in Charlottesville, American patriots of all colors and creeds must come together to defy those who raise the flag of hatred and bigotry.”


    1. And here you can find the affidavit of PD Chief Thomas on who they expected to attend, based on statements by invited speakers

      To summarize expected attendance
      150 “security personnel” from the Alt Knights and The American Guard
      150-200 Fraternal Order of Alt-Knights
      75-100 “Patriot Men”
      250-500 members of 4 different Klu Klux Clan groups
      500 “3% Risen”
      200-300 from New Yorks Lightfoot Militia

      As the above groups may overlap, the PD chief expected no fewer than 1000 participants and considered this a conservative estimate. The number offered by the organizer Jason Keller in the original application for a rally permit was 400.

      Given the list of invited speakers, can we agree that the expected attendants actually are what was reported: white nationalists, neo-Nazis and members of the “alt-right”? And that the press would be remiss to not report so?


      1. @marmoewp
        Would you stop and think for a minute? The title of this post is “Bigots Fighting Bigots”.

        I appreciate the fact you have all kinds of information on protestors. I doubt you find it as easy to identify who organized the counter protestors, even the ones who came prepared to be violent.

        You want to know something funny? Whenever I condemn LGBTQ behaviors as immoral, half the time someone will ask me if I know someone who is LGBTQ. I just brush off the question. I am not arguing based upon my personal authority. So why attack me?

        What nobody has ever asked me is whether I know a white nationalist, and those guys are far more rare than members of the LGBTQ community.

        It makes no more sense to turn our country upside down for the sake of nutcases of any description. When it comes to good government, what matters is trying to do the right thing to protect everyone’s rights, not who we hate or identify with.


  8. James Alex Fields has been identified as the driver of the car that killed a anti-“Unite-the-Right”-protester and injured several others. Comparison of his mug-shot with photos from the Unite-the-Right rally show him as one of the attendants. He is being held w/o bail for murder.

    Charlottesville Driver Who Killed One Rallied With Alt-Right Vanguard America Group
    While speculation still surrounds Fields’ motives, available photography appears to show Fields present at the UTR event with members of Vanguard America, a racist right wing organization that helped Kessler organize the event.

    Fields is the second from the left with the large black shield.


    1. @marmoewp

      You referenced the SPLC. Why? That group has made itself notorious because it too readily identifies anyone who disagrees with its politics as a hate group.

      That is the basic problem in this country today, and us versus them mentality that is actively encouraged by the mass media. That is why we could not get a decent healthcare bill through Congress. Even though Obamacare is a disaster and transparently unconstitutional, its proponents won’t take no for an answer. They won’t even consider any sort of compromise.


        1. I have read their so call “hate group”list before. It came to my attention that this group lists anyone who is not in lock-step with their world views as a hate group. I tend not to trust them. American College of Pediatricians is a hate group?!?

          Liked by 1 person

        2. @Wyldkat
          ACAP is an advocay group with an estimated membership of 500. The 64,000 members professional association ís the American Academy of Pediatrics. Could your mystification be caused by mistaking one for the other? If you want to look into why the SPLC considers the former a hate group, I am game.


        3. The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a national organization of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals dedicated to the health and well-being of children.

          Pediatricians, not law makers. (although some of them may be or may have acted as lobbyist.)

          Why does SPLC list them as hate group?

          The American College of Pediatricians:

          Recognizes that there are absolutes and scientific truths that transcend relative social considerations of the day.
          Recognizes that good medical science cannot exist in a moral vacuum and pledges to promote such science.
          Recognizes the fundamental mother-father family unit, within the context of marriage, to be the optimal setting for the development and nurturing of children and pledges to promote this unit.*
          Recognizes the unique value of every human life from the time of conception to natural death and pledges to promote research and clinical practice that provides for the healthiest outcome of the child from conception to adulthood.
          Recognizes the essential role parents play in encouraging and correcting the child and pledges to protect and promote this role.
          Recognizes the physical and emotional benefits of sexual abstinence until marriage and pledges to promote this behavior as the ideal for adolescence.*
          Recognizes that health professionals caring for children must maintain high ethical and scientific standards and pledges to promote such practice.
          Recognizes the vital role the College has in promoting quality education for parents, physicians, and other health professionals.

          The Objectives of the College are:

          To foster and stimulate improvements in all aspects of healthcare of infants, children, and adolescents;
          To promote the basic father-mother family unit as the optimal setting for childhood development, while pledging to support all children, regardless of their circumstances;*
          To affirm that parents have the inalienable right and responsibility to educate and rear their children;
          To advocate for children at all stages of development, from conception to young adulthood;
          To cultivate and encourage parental responsibility for and involvement in the child’s life;
          To engender the honest interpretation of scientific pediatric research, without deference to current political persuasions; **
          To promote the highest standards of medical practice among its Members and within the field of pediatrics;
          To encourage and support sound, ethical scientific research in all aspects of healthcare for infants, children, and adolescents; and
          To cooperate with other organizations having similar purposes and standards.

          * statement is in opposition to current liberal ideology.
          ** this includes positions such as:
          “Human sexuality is an objective biological binary trait: “XY” and “XX” are genetic markers of male and female, respectively”
          “puberty-blocking hormones can be dangerous.”
          “Rates of suicide are nearly twenty times greater among adults who use cross-sex hormones”
          (taken from their site where references are cited)

          AAPed are doctors expressing a view point different than the liberals who want to make social policy. SPLC is a Liberal group. Like many radical liberal groups, they brand any group that isn’t in lock-step with their thinking as Hate Group.

          Liked by 1 person

        4. That is a good one, but while the SPLC probably treats the US Border Patrol like a hate group they don’t as yet officially list it as one. There is a group called the American Border Patrol they don’t like, and that is probably what you are thinking of.

          Since the SPLC lists as a hate group any organization that wants our government to enforce our border, you are as a practical matter correct, but technically wrong.

          Here is how the SPLC talks about people they don’t like.

          The National Border Patrol Council is an employee union for the U.S. Border Patrol. I guess the SPLC has not listed that as a hate group, but they may be considering it.


        5. You’re probably right. There are three “Border Patrols” listed in their General Hate secretion under ‘ANTI-IMMIGRANT”. But not the actual U.S. Border Patrol. Still strikes me as odd that anyone would consider protecting the borders as Hate Crimes.

          Liked by 1 person

        6. I’ll come back to ACPed, addressing Border Patrol is quicker.

          SPLC is listing the “American Border Patrol” in Sierra Vista, AZ, NOT the “US Border Patrol”

          from SPLC:
          In its own words
          “A misguided immigration policy and a hostile force on our border are threatening the bonds of our union. If she is to survive, America needs leaders who will fight for her. Leaders who will control our border. Leaders who will repel invaders. Leaders who will put an end to the cultural cancer which is eating at the very heart of our nation. America and her western civilization must be rescued if she is to make her date with destiny in the twenty first century.”
          — Voice of Citizens Together video, “Immigration: Threatening the Bonds of Our Union,” 1999

          Is the concept of misguiding names still alien to you?


        7. @marmoewp

          I don’t know much about the American Border Patrol. Hate group? I don’t know, but I am puzzled. What is it about that quote that makes the “American Border Patrol” a hate group?

          I know people are leaving California. The state is going broke. For all practical purposes California is a one party state. Not that long ago Californians elected Ronald Reagan as their governor. Could not happen now. No chance of it.

          Here is some information from a think tank, probably biased towards immigration, but even their “just the facts” suggests a problem.

          One in four people in the state were not born there? In a state that populous, that’s crazy!

          Foreign-born residents accounted for 71% of state residents without a high school diploma and 31% of college-educated residents.

          Most of the people without a high school degree are immigrants. Why admit them in the first place? They will do jobs Americans won’t do? That’s the Democrat Liberal’s bigoted excuse, but don’t slaves do jobs their masters won’t do? So we need slaves? That excuse was used. Only blacks could stand the heat and pick cotton.

          Work needs to be done? Then the people who need the work done should pay someone what getting work done is worth to them, not break the law and hire an illegal immigrant. Otherwise, they should do the work themselves.


        8. @Tom
          Dehumanizing immigrants by calling them a “cultural cancer”, i.e. equating them to a disease, fits the bill for me. If that were the only evidence, it would be a flimsy case. You may want to read the rest of the SPLC page an ABP, though.


        9. @marmoewp

          That quote does not dehumanized anybody. Illegal immigration is a cultural cancer, not the immigrants.

          The United States is a constitutional republic. That form of government is part of our culture, and it depends upon an informed citizenry which values this form of government as part of their heritage.

          So what is the problem, the cancer? We cannot maintain a constitutional republic, throw open our borders, and run a welfare state all at the same time. It won’t work.

          We have attracted millions of poorly educated people who cannot even speak our language. These people are effectively invaders (illegal immigrants) and a threat to our culture. As your quote makes perfectly clear, the problem, however, resides in the leadership, the leadership’s refusal to enforce the law.

          Most of the people I know who are furious about the immigration issue don’t blame the illegal immigrants. Why get mad at someone for doing the same thing you would do if you were in their shoes? What we get angry about is leaders who will not enforce laws that are on the books. 80 percent of the country wants something done and they still refused. That is why Trump is president.


        10. You’re probably right. There are three “Border Patrols” listed in their General Hate secretion under ‘ANTI-IMMIGRANT”. But not the actual U.S. Border Patrol. Still strikes me as odd that anyone would consider protecting the borders as Hate Crimes.

          Border patroling does not a hate group make. Attitudes of the group towards immigrants/non-whites does. When the group is made up of neo-Nazis, can we agree it fits the “hate group” label?


  9. Glad to get your perspective on this mess and your title says it all. I don’t think the President is a racists or has any sympathy with KKK supporters and/or neo Nazis and the left trying to apply their broad brush to paint everyone on the right as part of this noxious group is appalling yet not at all surprising.

    All the more reason in my mind for the President to be much more harsh and strong in his words about this group. His statement was lame and feeds in to the pitch fork left’s narrative about right wing sympathy for racists pigs.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. The Democrats deliberately staged provocative demonstrations at some of Trump’s rallies. They were trying to provoke violence, and that fact has been documented. I suspect that is why Trump blamed both sides.

      As a leader, Trump’s job is not about taking sides against any group of citizens. His task is to prosecute illegal behavior, and both sides engaged in illegal behavior.

      Is what the white nationalists stand for despicable? Of course, but what is admirable about attacking them what they demonstrate? What gives the so-called counter protesters the right to deny anyone their right to free speech?

      If you want to know what someone stands for, it is a good idea to let them talk. If what they stand for is awful, then we will know.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I agree with you Tom in that they have the right to protest (never said they shouldn’t) and I think speaking out against this ridiculous trend of taking down offensive statues is fine. It is also most certainly true that the far left interferes with and is deliberately provocative at right wing rallies. The organizers of this march however are known anti-Semites and bigots and people were shown doing the Nazi salute and spouting Nazi sayings. The name of the march was “Unite for the Right” and I think the President should say loudly and clearly “not in my name.”

        Liked by 1 person

      2. They were trying to provoke violence, and that fact has been documented.

        I seem to have missed that story. Do you happen to have a link/links where I could read up? Or more details that would make a search easier (names, places, …)? TIA


        1. @marmoewp

          Such is what some people in the mainstream say. Given some of the stunts we have caught the mainstream media doing, I tend to give the videos some credence.

          If you are a Democrat, it is ridiculously stupid to show up at Trump rally, which are supposedly notorious gatherings of violent people and start taunting them. Yet that is what people did, and O’Keefe says the Democrats organized such people.

          So take your pick.
          1. The Trump rallies were relatively peaceful, and the news media just lied.
          2. Some insane people showed up at the Trump rallies, taunted the crowd, and some got roughed up.
          3. The Democrats “bird-dogged” the Trump rallies so that the news media could get pictures showing that Trump’s supporters are savages.

          Since there is no good for a Democrat to show up at a Trump rally except to listen quietly or bird-dog the crowd, the only issue is whether the Democrats organized the bird-dogs. The videos strongly suggest somebody organized the bird-doggers.


        2. So now demonstrations have become individuals at Trump rallys who supposedly did not do the provocation on their own but were coordinated by the Democratic party. Sorry, I am getting wiplash from the moving of the goalposts. I am just curious how the Democrats managed to have Trump egg on those people roughing up the interlopers, instead of just letting security take care of them like at Democratic rallys.
          As for O’Keefe, he has enough settlements, convictions and deals with law enforcement to cover his ass to earn his bad reputation.


        3. O’Keefe has videos of people forming complete sentences. He identifies those people. Those people clearly say what they are doing. How he got them to do it I don’t know. You want to call it a fraud? I cannot stop you, but that is all you are doing.


  10. I was hoping to find common ground when you mentioned you did a post on the events that took place in Charlottesville.

    Dietrich Bonhoeffer — ‘Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.’

    First, the title is a disgrace – you have deliberately chosen to equate the actions of neo-Nazis with those who protest hate.

    Over 60 million (60,000,000 – yes, that is people) died in ww2 fighting Nazi ideals… and here you seek to create an equivalency between neo-Nazis and those who oppose them. Shameful and disgraceful.

    From your post and subsequent comments, it is easy to conclude your ignorance of history and for this you can be forgiven. However, I view your opinions as much more sinister – I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

    “White supremacists aren’t patriots, they’re traitors – Americans must unite against hatred & bigotry.” – McCain

    As Senator Hatch said: “We should call evil by its name. My brother didn’t give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home.”

    Ms. Heather Heyer was not a bigot. She spent her career helping those like Trump – those dealing with bankruptcies.

    How much further do you think you can sink in your defense of the indefensible.


    1. Of course, insanitybytes, I would agree that if they were just left alone there would be no attention drawn to them. As I said in an earlier reply, these white supremasists and neo-nazis are no different from their own founding father from the Fatherland of the 20′ s and 30’s that relished street confrontations (and of course the injured and killed as martyrs) to help illustrate their hatred ideals. Just playing into their hands then.. and now.

      I’m sure few of you reading this even recall the 1975-1977 Constitutional free speech confrontation with uniformed, swastika flag carrying, heii Hitler, neo-nazis petitioning to march smack through predominantly Jewish Skokie, Illinois. It took a year or so but they won in the Surpreme Court the right to do so.. and that community on those days was filled with Holocaust survivors. It had the potential in making Charlotteville look like a picnic in the park by comparison. As it turned out the Court limited their demonstration to a local park, rather than a march through neighborhoods, and while there were some anti-protests the event came and went without any large confrontations. Point being… maybe it’s not our abhorrence so much to what they believe… but our own completely absurd phase of political correctness.. which is just a nice term for having fear in what another person says as having some threat to your life and well-being. Oh, yeah.. we all love free speech……….. as long as your free speech doesn’t infringe on MY free speech. And… your free speech better damn well not offend my personal.. here it comes.. that favorite word….. AGENDA. There are 300+ million people in this country all having an agenda.. yet we use that word as some “dumping ground” for what we personally don’t have in life.

      The whole thing makes me sick. The solution? Just let it run its course. Like a bad kidney stone, this too shall pass. If we end up getting a maverick president someday who lacks any kind of political experience, moral compass, talks gibberish, has no comprehension how to be presidential for all Americans, has no idea that words indeed matter coming from the country’s leader, and is the laughing stock of the world…. then, I might begin to worry.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. @theancients

      I think I can be forgiven for equating neo-Nazis with equally violent neo-Communists/Anarchist. If you have looked at the pictures and followed the news, it is hard to miss the fact that two groups of nut-cases confronted each other in Charlottesville.

      Wrote this post here =>

      That post with insanitybytes22’s comment (here => should answer your comment.

      I don’t have much use for John McCain, but that’s another subject. Just think about that quote. “They’re traitors.” I have a low opinion of what white supremacists stand for, but I still think we should reserve words like “traitor” and capital punishment for people who have actually committed treason. Is that too much to ask?

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I agree, Tom. When I read what McCain said using “traitors” I was a bit dismayed as well. It’s one thing to object to political opinion but I saw nothing traitorous. Just an emotional term.

        (Now, this by no means has ANY similarity to my post where I assign “traitorous act against the Constitution” regarding the states seceding that triggered the Civil War. A civic protest is a FAR cry from the conditions leading up to that war.)

        Liked by 1 person

  11. Well,let me try to run interference here between Tom and ancients. First off “alt right” is a huge label,a broad brush that covers everything from white supremacy to red pills, to some fairly decent people who are simply right leaning in their politics. They denounce neo nazis and violence as vehemently as any of us so. The Daily Stormer is not representative of the “Alt Right,” that is one vile and possibly criminal character. “Unite the right” is not really the right at all,as in it does not represent the bulk of the Alt Right as a whole,or the people farther down the continuum,conservatives and republicans

    Conversely however, the Antifa are not all gentle, peace loving leftist, pacifists,they are not simply the resistance,the anti nazi protestors. Many of them are actually paid anarchists. So what we have here is simply flip sides of the same coin, a tiny handful of radicals from around the country attempting to radicalize people and create controversy and conflict.

    So there are many shades of grey going on here all at once, and what we really need is for calmer heads to prevail. Nobody here at Tom’s is defending actual neo nazis as far as I can tell, although some may defend their right to gather and protest. That is not a defense of alt right, white nationalism,it’s a defense of our Constitution. I cannot abide neo Nazis either, but they would totally disappear into obscurity if people stopped responding to them as we do. They feed off of hatred and Antifa is constantly poking them with a stick.

    There are innocent people who keep jumping into this fight,like those bystanders who got mowed down by that car. They have no idea what is going on,how they are being used and unfortunately hurt and even killed sometimes in the process.

    All I can really do is keep asking and praying for calmer heads to prevail and for people to not get pulled into the emotionalism of the moment. The media and the radicals are trying to trigger our emotionalism, they are attempting to write a narrative that isn’t really true at all,but it serves some agendas very well.


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