JOHN ADAMS ON NULLIFICATION

H/T to The Bull Elephant: Our candidate for Attorney General in his own words.

One of the ideas people float is ignoring the Federal Government when the Supreme Court makes an absurd decision. As John Adams points out, we have to consider where this sort will ultimately take us.

The headache with government is that we either have to obey or rebel. Here is my own analogy. When 1st Century Christians resisted calling the Roman Emperor a god, they sometimes paid a heavy price, martyrdom. Arrogant rulers will not tolerate being ignored.

In today’s United States, we are divided as to whether we will permit individuals the right to exercise their freedom of conscience. Using civil rights as an excuse, some groups want to relegate religious practice strictly to personal, private behavior. They want government to set moral behavior in the workplace, the schools, the hospitals, the churches (no hate speech), and so forth. These people are angry and prideful enough that they will get violent and use every bit of power they can muster. We can either accept their tyranny or, as Adams points out, we can muster more votes.

16 thoughts on “JOHN ADAMS ON NULLIFICATION

  1. Hahaha.. I started reading this as if you were referring to the “much older” and deceased John Adams and sharing some of his wisdom. 🙂 I failed to see this was another of your local politics posts. 🙂

    Listening to this video it comes to mind that those folks preferring to see great moral decisions in government made at the state level would imply that certain areas of the country could end up being like religious enclaves. You wish to live and be governed according to Christian doctrine then go live in state “A”. If you want to live and be governed according to Islamic tradition then go live in state “B”… and so on. Heck.. you can even break it further down into counties. If in my county there are a lot of Hindus irregardless of the fact that the rest of the state is Christian, then we should run our county according to Hindu practices.

    Not sure that would be a wise way to travel.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. When I was younger, I believed the news media made sense. So I swallowed the notion that the nation should have uniform abortion laws across the nation. Then I realized that the Supreme Court did not have any legal basis for imposing uniform abortion laws. Oops!

      What was the news media thinking? Well, I can guess at why 90 percent of them vote for Democrats, but I don’t really know what is going on inside their brains. I just know for certain that it is not right for judges to legislate from the bench.

      To the extent we have a uniform culture, it is because Congress has regulated immigration. Hence, our forebears did not see bunches and bunches of Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and so forth. Nevertheless, when people traveled from one state to another, they saw significant cultural differences. We are a federation. It is not the Federal Government’s job to make us all think the same way. That is in fact a large part of what lead to the Civil War. Using the Supreme Court to get its way, the South insisted that the rest of the country implicitly approve of slavery. When the South could not get its way, the South seceded from the Union.

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  2. Actually I find your point… “It is not the federal government’s job to make us think the same way.” has some debatable merit in certain contexts. Part of what feeds this call for uniformity is the fact that we are a very fast growing population.. we have a super highway system… high speed rail.. and of course, affordable air travel.. and all that makes us a greatly mobile population. We might be born in Illinois but we have now relocated to Alabama for job opportunity reasons… and we naturally want to live where laws are uniform and not set by the whims of a deep seated local demographic. A perfect example of that are the left over alcohol laws… some states/counties are dry, or dry at certain hours… bars are closed at certain times, etc.

    On the other hand… I have always felt that the ultimate violation of our human rights as an individual is an unnatural death… i.e. murder. It should be a federal offense. Yet each state and even a county can shape and bend punishment for murder to fit local morality. Yet we have federal laws regarding drugs. Makes no sense the punishment for murder varies from state to state. To me that is not right.

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    1. Posted this comment here inadvertently. Related thread here => http://www.findingpoliticalsanity.com/does-anyone-remember-freedom-of-the-press/.
      @Doug

      I had my reply button composed last night, but I managed to send it to the bit bucket instead of posting it. So it was time for bed.

      Here we go again.

      I too enjoy dialoguing with someone who debates the point instead how evil you are, that is, whether you are madman because you dare to disagree with them.

      Why is 90 percent of the news media Democrat? I am not sure. I have theories, but that’s it.

      What about Trump’s status in the polls? I don’t worry about such polls too much. The news media has made a series of special elections referendums on Trump, and Trump has “won”.

      Thank you for effectively conceding Trump is doing that as successfully (or not) at this point as most any new president. So what about your issue?

      You have said that Trump is a decent leader and manager. I’ve been a professional manager, businessman, and I am degreed just like him. But I find NO evidence that he is a team building good manager.

      For fun I googled “what has donald trump accomplished since becoming president”. Here is what was at the top of the list, “All the Terrifying Things That Donald Trump Did Lately” (=> http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/06/every-terrifying-thing-that-donald-trump-has-done.html). Every time anyone want to find out what Trump is doing, Google will turn up what someone thinks Trump is doing wrong.

      Fox News did the most to give us Trump, inadvertently I think. They still love covering him and tend to be a bit more neutral, almost an advocate, but much of the establishment and the news media can’t handle him being there. So if you want to find out what Trump is doing the best place is whitehouse.gov.

      Politics is war without physical violence. We win elections, not battles. Generally, the divisions remain. All a leader can do is hire folks on his side to fill positions, and that takes time.

      Even Ronald Reagan did not succeed in unifying the nation. His successes, however, left the opposition unable to credibly paint him as a monster. I suspect that in time Trump’s successes will have similar results, but I doubt he will be able to surpass Reagan’s feat of ending the Cold War. However, the Cold War seems to be back. So we will see.

      Trump’s big problem (and advantage) is that he is an outsider. He doesn’t have a large team of tested, loyal supporters to draw from. So he is taking his time finding people. That is just the way it is.

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    2. @Doug

      Well, I understand you may wish for uniformity, but the Constitution intended to the states to make their own laws on most things.

      There is a practical advantage in states making their own laws. In addition to giving people in different parts of the country to retain their own ways, It gives us the opportunity to try different approaches. Instead of Washington just issuing a dictate, the states can see what works and copy each other. What works eventually becomes the de facto standard.

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  3. There is “unifying the nation” and “relieving the divisiveness”. We are a democracy so a certain amount of divisiveness is typical. “Unifying” is more a populist idea to suggest the country should cool down and get down to the business of governing following an election. Our current divisiveness is largely fueled by Trump being Trump and all his traits, inexperience, ideas, and radical approach being so damn non-traditional as to challenge conventionality among those who are so used to a dignified, organized, political process. Trump has a base of supporters, like yourself, who love-to-death (literally, I think at times) his maverick style simply because he IS different. The funny thing is… there is no politician I would ever follow to the ends of the earth, on a good day, even if I thought they were the greatest thing since sliced bread, to the degree folks want to support Trump. It’s a blind following I find that’s of real interest; more a phenomenon.
    The result of that seemingly blind following has been this interpretation of what is or is not a common sense fact. Trump himself feeds that. Just go to any fact checking site to confirm something… and it absolutely doesn’t matter to Trump and his followers; sheer denial, and everyone is on board screaming fake news… and to the mainstream media, no less, the traditional bulwarks of our free press. If Trump says it, it must be true and his detractors can go straight to hell regardless of any of THEIR facts. Amazing… and sad. Because in the end we are all equal Americans.

    My best buddy… we went to high school together, he now lives in Phoenix.. got married, had a couple kids., as I did. I am often visiting him. I asked him who he voted for and when he said Trump, of course I had to chastise him that only best friends can do between each other… and his reason, “I thought he would upset the apple cart.” Well, that’s certainly a reason to vote for someone that’s just as valid (or as idiotic) as any other reason. But my buddy reflects a common thread with Trump supporters; political conventionality in politics has gotten some Americans nowhere and they are frustrated and love tossing a wrench into the works just to watch the results. Trump is on office because voters wanted to flip their finger at Washington.

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    1. Trump is on office because voters wanted to flip their finger at Washington.

      I think Trump more competent than you credit him for, but there is some truth to your assertion. I was angry the news gamed the system so that Trump got far more publicity than Cruz. It was obvious they thought Trump could not when and feared Cruz would. So I am certain lots of voters did what I had an itch to do, voted for Trump just to show ’em.

      Still, we must remember that H. Clinton was the alternative to Trump. The Republican Party could have run a gorilla. To avoid H. Clinton as president I would vote for the gorilla.

      Anyway, I have looked up what the news media calls fact checking. That is not what they are doing. They are fact spinning.

      Remember when H. Clinton said 17 intelligence organizations concluded that Russia interfered in the presidential election. Well, that was a lie at the getgo that it took forever to rebut.
      => http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/jul/06/17-intelligence-organizations-or-four-either-way-r/

      The only thing the Russians might have done to influence the elections is steal information off the Democratic Party’s servers. Only thing is that the FBI has never gotten access to those servers.
      => https://www.wired.com/2017/01/fbi-says-democratic-party-wouldnt-let-agents-see-hacked-email-servers/

      So how do know the Russians did anything?

      Like

      1. Excellent. I also refer to Politifact. But please note.. Hillary did not lie. The Poltififact write up said she did draw a natural conclusion based on the DNI report… the DNI coordinating all intel agencies. You see, that in itself is conservative spin of fact. Saying Hillary flat out lied suggests she sat down and decided, “Screw the truth, I’ll just say this.” as if this fulfills some evil expectation of Trumpsters regarding Clinton’s behavior. C’mon.

        But.. the end result… it matters totally not if it were four agencies or 17. What matters is that the agencies that did report were the important ones for national security.. and Trump continually chooses not to believe his own agencies. BUT… as I am writing this it seems Trump got some kahunas and hit Putin with the hacking charge, although that’s a far cry from Putin admitting to it.. and what we do about it. It seems from the talks Putin is buying some time in joining Trump on the “where do we go from here” rather than lamenting back and forth with accusations and repercussions. While that’s a good approach for these two guys at the start, it only works if both follow through.

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        1. @Doug

          As a former Secretary of State, H. Clinton would have to know how the Intelligence is organized. Just because the DNI signs off on something does not mean all 17 Intelligence agencies approved of a finding. It was a silly assertion from the start. => http://www.businessinsider.com/17-agencies-of-the-us-intelligence-community-2013-5?op=1/#ast-guard-intelligence-provides-information-on-maritime-security-and-homeland-defense-9

          Before the election, Obama is out there saying it was impossible for the Russians to hack the election. Afterward, they made stuff up trying prove Trump stole the election. Frankly, Trump has behaved with more maturity than the Obama’s or the Clinton’s ever did.

          You want to believe Russia hacked our election? That’s is fine, but how do you know?

          Anyway, the head of several intelligence organizations have also said we have no evidence that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians. Nevertheless, we have a special prosecutor, and nobody can explain why one is needed. Moreover, that special prosecutor is hiring a bunch of Democrats who contributed to H. Clinton’s campaign. The whole thing has the reeking stench of purely juvenile, selfish, establishment, in-crowd driven “we should have won” politics.

          Like

  4. In order to muster more votes we are going to have to reinstall the teaching of “Government” and “Civics” classes in the Public Schools as mandatory academia and in Colleges and Universities as “Electives” and we are going to have to spend some money on some kind of enduring program designed to raise Public Awareness of important issues out of the cesspools of apathy. No easy task given the growing diversity and division of our great nation. It seems to me the great emphasis from the clueless hordes now is on preserving and promoting individual cultures and resisting assimilation with every last breath under protection of the satanic umbrella tagged “Political Correctness.”

    Liked by 1 person

    1. The public school system is badly broken. About the only way to fix it is to implement school choice. Educational vouchers and charter schools would force the public schools to improve..

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      1. Fine as long as we can break the cycle of apathy that I think is being force fed to the population as some kind of “Norm.”

        Liked by 1 person

      2. The idea that the school system is badly broken is highly suspect. You, yourself, praise the increase in states rights. The public school system is a prime example of states rights at work. The autonomy of local school districts on what it taught in the classroom is unprecedented in local governing. Yes.. there are certain government mandates to assure some level of education uniformity.. and most assuredly some of those mandates do not work as well in some districts as others, but the public education system in this country is very state/locally controlled.
        The other objection I have to the generalized statement that the education system is bad…. this idea has been lamented for my entire life. The fact is… our country would not be as powerful or successful had it not been for our educational system. Does it need tweaking and curriculum adjustments? Yes! Does it need some level of equality given many districts do not have the tax base that allows for fancy tools? Yes! But I caution about throwing out the baby with the bath water simply because conservatives don’t have enough religion in the classroom.

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        1. @Doug

          What I support is decentralized decision-making. We should not be giving up decisions we are perfectly capable of making for ourselves to politicians.

          Private schools work. Even homeschooling works better than government-run schools. So why do we have them. They are more inexpensive? No they are not.

          When public school administrators tell you the cost of public schools, they fudge the numbers. What they give you are the operating costs, not the whole and complete costs that a private school has to divulge.

          What exactly is wrong with the government running the schools? Here is a short list.
          1. As voters, we don’t do a good job of selecting the people who run our government. Since politicians have no special qualifications to run the schools, what is the point of putting them in charge? So they can buy votes with our money?
          2. Monopolistic systems cover up their deficiencies by preventing us from realizing someone else can do a better job. We think public schools are inexpensive, that private schools are so expensive only the rich can afford them, but that is like thinking cars would be less expensive if the government made them and “gave” them to us.
          3. Government-run schools tend to become indoctrination centers. That to some extent may also be true of private schools, but at least parents choose the nature of the indoctrination. This boils down to a freedom of religion issue. Instead of nonsense like multiculturalism, parents should have the opportunity to choose schools which help them to reinforce their own beliefs in their own children.
          4. Government-run schools interfere with the formation of communities. When people operate schools and charities locally, those schools and charities tend to become their schools and charities, entities that they tend to support them through their churches or a nonprofit of some sort. Such activities bring people together so that they get to know their neighbors.

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        2. I think you say it well in point 3… parents should have a choice of where to send their kids.. or not (as with home schooling). But our society is made up of people with wide varieties of economic needs and abilities. A HUGE problem in public education has been parental apathy toward education, for any number of economic, social, and cultural reasons. Because of the large numbers of single parent households schools serve more as babysitters, with little or no followup at home. That’s the secret in education… followup at home; parental involvement. Make no mistake.. I have a lot of issues with public education as it exists today. Of particular concern is all this “zero tolerance” crap exceeding any sort of application of common sense. School boards, and school principles have an amazing amount of power regarding our kids when at school. Some of this is necessary… some of this needs further thought. The point is, school itself becomes an artificial society for our children; they develop their own social hierarchies, relationships, pecking orders, etc. This is part of the safety insulation we try and give them in order to educate. We’ve all been through it and we’ve all been victims within it. Their “real life” is in school… not life outside school that is real for adults and the rest of the world. But as parents we surrender control of our kids to so-called professionals for the bulk of each day… and we expect our kids to come home and somehow relate to our world.

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        3. @Doug

          Consider what you said. Single parent homes is a values issue, and all the public school system is doing is promoting such values. Sex is about children and is designed to form a bond between parents, not primarily a form of recreation.

          It is not for you or for me to tell others how to run their lives. Just because we can vote doesn’t mean we will vote for anybody who can efficiently and effectively run all the government bureaucracies this country has created. What matters is that even if we accept the fallacy that every child has “right” for the public to pay for his or her education, that education doesn’t have to be provided by a government-run agency. There is no practical reason why a child’s parent or guardian cannot choose a school for their child.

          You made the point that parents don’t get involved in their children’s schools. Well, that is not something government-run schools encourage. Private schools, BECAUSE parents choose the schools, do strive to involve parents. It is part of the marketing.

          Are there private schools that market to parents who don’t want to be involve? Well, I suppose there are some rich people who want that, but I doubt that marketing technique is the sort of thing any school wants to be known for. But public schools are known for keeping parents at a distance.

          But as parents we surrender control of our kids to so-called professionals for the bulk of each day… and we expect our kids to come home and somehow relate to our world.

          We surrender our children to people chosen by politicians, some of the least trusted people in the country. There is no good reason for this. None.

          Like

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