The Lost Debate

Politics and Religion… Lost Subjects in America by Ask Marion offers an interesting theory as to why politics and religion are lost subjects in America. Admittedly, it’s a conspiracy theory, but the conspiracy is not particularly well hidden.

Is there a conspiracy? Well, at one time there probably wasn’t one, but there is certainly one now. There is lots of money to be had at the Big Government feeding trough. I just doubt the “conspiracy” is especially well organized or even all that intentional, but how would we know?

Often, when people do wrong, they hide their motives even from themselves. So we can only guess what their motives might be. So make of Marion’s observations what you will, the elites of this country do most certainly seek to manipulate the rest of us.

Politics,  religion… politicians (the ruling’ elite) and God are the entities and concepts that in one way or another affect everything in everyone’s lives.  Yet in America, where the common man was actually able to take part in the decisions, laws and activities concerning politics and religion in their lives, a large percentage of ‘the average man of the 21st century’ neither knows nor cares little about either.

The “no talk of politics and religion” that has creped into all sectors of American life is bad and is very much part of of what has brought us to this point in our history. The Founding Fathers of America certainly discussed politics and religion wherever they went and encouraged their children to be part of the debate. (continued here)

Silliness Over Substance

Study American history, and it quickly becomes obvious that Americans once discussed politics and religion with gusto.  Even now it is not hard for Americans to impress foreigners with the liveliness of our debate (see Why Britain is poorer than any US state, other than Mississippi). Yet only those who still know enough to care actually debate much of substance anymore. As a people, we certainly don’t discuss whether our political beliefs conform with our religious beliefs. Just check the headlines on popular web portals.

There is so much silliness mixed in with the stuff that actually might affect us it is ludicrous. How much coverage do we need of black thug being killed by a policeman, a cop killer hunting cops, NFL players socking their girl friends or punishing their children, the deaths of entertainers, juicy murder trials, renaming the Redskins, and so forth?

Consider just a few of the inane things our politicians have debated here of late. Think about the fact that each of these involve serious religious issues.

  • Trillion dollar deficits. How large does our national debt have to get before enough is enough? Of course, the Bible strongly discourages borrowing. When a nation assumes a great debt for no good reason, that indicates moral issues.
  • Same-sex marriage. Why should we take the “marriage” of two people of the same sex seriously? For reasons that should be obvious, all the world’s major religions define marriage as the lifelong bond between a man and a woman.
  • Nationalizing our healthcare. Why would we want to give politicians power over our healthcare? The Bible teaches that men should not be trusted with great power for essentially frivolous reasons.
  • Nationalizing education standards. Why would we want to trust politicians, people nobody trusts, with the education of our children? The Bible makes parents, not politicians, responsible for the instruction of their children.
  • ISIS is not an Islamic organization?  President Obama told us ISIS is not an Islamic organization. Nonetheless, the Muslims in ISIS are behaving like Muslims. They are just not by anyone’s definition peaceful Muslims, but the Koran does not require Muslims to be peaceful.  Mohammed spread Islam as a conquering warrior.

Unfortunately, with each succeeding generation, as a people we have had less success passing Christian beliefs onto the next. Therefore, even though the Bible is still a bestseller, in too many homes the Bible has become a table ornament, not a book that deserves careful and devoted study. As consequence, the values Americans once cherished, the respect we showed for each others God-given rights, have no moral foundation upon which they can now rest. Thus, our debates have steadily grown more silly, and we take serious ideas previous generations would have immediately recognized as daft.

What Is The Cause Of This Problem?

Why don’t we discuss politics and religion? Well, it seems the problem is we don’t want to be perceived as having a bias.  Some people, perhaps those sneaky conspirators, have us convinced that anyone with a bias is BIGOTED, not objective or neutral.

Supposedly, biased people cannot think reasonably, and they say mean things that offend those who disagree with them, and that’s just not nice. And how do we decide whose opinions are biased? That’s the purpose of political correctness. Any time we say something the offends some sort of “victim group” that is politically incorrect.

What is a “victim group”? Anyone who can convince the corporate own news media that they are a victim group is a victim group.

Since being called a BIGOT by the corporation owned news media can lead to a horrible pile on (Don’t we like to elevate ourselves at the expense of others?), public figures do all they can to avoid being called a BIGOT. And what is the best way to avoid being perceived as politically incorrect BIGOT? One way is to avoid mixing religion with politics.

And what about the rest of us, us not so public figures? Don’t we imitate the talking heads and the folks covered by the corporate mass media? And don’t our institutions, our schools, government agencies, and corporations adopt the standards set by the talking heads and the folks covered by the corporation owned news media? And so in the name of political correctness, we have shut up too.

Why do the politically correct disdain the discussion of religion in particular? What we believe about God drives how we treat each other. If we believe God wants us to live by and spread His Word, then we are obliged to live by and politely spread His Word, even if our beliefs offend others. Because Christianity requires Christians to live by and spread God’s Word, the politically correct find Christianity especially offensive. These don’t want to be reminded that it is morally incorrect to worship their idols: sex, stuff, sex, and self.

What is Multiculturalism?

Where does this quest to avoid being politically incorrect lead? The most politically correct acquire a resolute determination to believe nothing can be proved about religion, especially Christianity. In fact, these politically correct souls would have us believe that all religions are equally good (or equally bad).

What do the politically correct call this philosophy that allows them to be so perfectly objective or neutral? They call it Multiculturalism.

Does  Multiculturalism make any sense? What makes a resolute determination to believe nothing can be proved a worthwhile demonstration of objectivity or neutrality? When the adherents of each of the major religions believe that only those who practice their religion worship God appropriately, how can it make sense to believe all religions are equally good (or equally bad). When all of them cannot be right, what use is such objectivity or neutrality?

Isn’t objectivity or neutrality of this sort actually an illusion? Aren’t we only unbiased about things we do not care about? If we do not care about a complex subject, of what use is our opinion? After all, why would we waste our time studying something we don’t even care about?

Is it appropriate to listen to those who favor a particular option with respect to religion? Yes. Should we seek the opinions of “experts” with differing points of view? Yes. To find the truth, we must seek the truth where it is, not where we would like it to be. Yet even though the people of different religions believe starkly different things, Multiculturalists would have us believe all religions are equally good (or equally bad). Some Multiculturalist would even have us believe that all religions are essentially the same. Since Multiculturalism teaches such obvious untruths, it makes no sense to take such an ideology seriously, but Multiculturalism is what passes for religious instruction in our public schools.

If Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and so forth want to explain publicly why they vote the way they do, why wouldn’t that be healthier than keeping the reason why they vote as they do a secret? Why do we have to keep our religious belief in a closet marked PRIVATE? Why do we have to keep those bigoted, closed-minded Multiculturalists happy?

Is Religion Beyond Logical Proof?

In general, we have been taught that our religious beliefs are beyond logical proof, and there is some good reasoning behind that belief. Because God is beyond our understanding, we don’t know how to define God in such a way that we could scientifically prove we have detected Him. Unless God wanted to be found for a “scientific” study, we would not even know where to begin.

Can we logically prove God exists? Peter Kreeft, Ph.D, discusses that subject here, Can You Prove God Exists? And there are other websites that do the same thing. Kreeft makes the case that it is possible to logically prove God exists. So while it may not be possible to scientifically proof God exists, logical proof is possible. Nevertheless, there is no immediate penalty for denying that the logical proof of God’s existence is sufficient. Thus, since we have been taught by people with a certain bias against bringing God into the classroom or any other public place, these have taught us to set aside the existence of God as unsolvable problem.

Besides philosophical logic, what else might constitute proof God exists? Why shouldn’t we believe what the Bible claims for itself? Aren’t there many things we know to be true that we cannot prove either either scientifically and have difficulty explaining logically?

Consider these proofs.

  1. Without the inspiration of God, men would not have written the Bible. No other book is like it. The Bible doesn’t flatter us; the Bible holds up a mirror and shows us as we are. The Bible also gives us hope; it explains how God redeemed us from sin. There are about 40 authors, and these tell a coherent story in a book whose writings span 1500 hundred years. Moreover, in spite of the violence and travails of human history, believers have preserved the Bible virtually unchanged for thousands of years. Again I ask, other book is like that?
  2. Without the God of Israel, the history of the Jews makes no sense. After all that has been done to destroy them, after all they have suffered, the Jews still exist as a nation. No other people has a story so strange and remarkable, not even close.
  3. Without Christ Jesus — without the man who was also the Son of God — the formation of Christianity makes no sense. After His crucifixion, hundreds saw Him — alive. Rather than deny Christ, many accepted death. That includes all but one of His apostles. Only John died of old age. Why? What for? These people had nothing material to gain. In court the testimony of a dying man holds great weight? What is the testimony of a Christian martyr? Is it not the testimony of someone who knows his death, lies just before him?
  4. Christianity makes a difference. As a way of life, loving God and ones neighbors cannot be beat. That’s why 2000 years after the birth of Christ men and women still speak of being born again. Each Christian knows that when they were born again, that birth was real and substantial, not a delusion.

So What Is The Point?

If there is a Creator God, and that God is what Christians call the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, then we are the children of that God. We have a duty to love Him and to obey His commandments. As citizens of a republic, we also have the duty to ensure that republic protects the God-given rights of our family, friends, and fellow citizens.

Read the Declaration of Independence. That is the founding document of this nation. This document is why we celebrate Independence Day.  Then contemplate the obvious. If the founding document of this nation speaks of God-given rights, who has the right to force us to confine our religious beliefs in a closet? Do we owe man, even our government, more than we owe God?


  1. Our nation was established with a declaration of theodicy principles. Lawmakers confuse rights of the individual with the laws of God. Today’s politicians are afraid to confront evil for fear of losing their elective offices.
    Theodicy is defense of God’s goodness and omnipotence in view of the existence of evil.
    Evil is morally reprehensible, sinful.
    A nation gets the kind of statesman it deserves. When violence begets violence and rulers come and go, this is a reflection of a deep-seated and widespread social indiscipline and disorder. Such a community will not raise knowledgeable and perceptive statesman, and no tradition stable rule and judicious management of affairs will be established within it. ( Proverbs – McKane )
    A country which transgresses gets no statesman after another, but a perceptive man’s efforts order is maintained. (Proverb 28:2)
    In my opinion, our country has transgressed. We need both God and a perceptive leader to undo the mess we do as you stated in your excellent post.
    “Consider just a few of the inane things our politicians have debated here of late. Think about the fact that each of these involve serious religious issues.”
    Regards and good will blogging.


    1. Thank you for your thoughtful comment.

      What is sad is that so many people now refuse to recognize the Christian origins of this nation. In the same way they deny God exists or deny Jesus Christ was His son, they deny what the Founding Fathers did. Instead, they spin their wheels pointing out their theories. The Founders were all Deists. The Declaration of Independence does not count. The Constitution does not say the word God. And so much nonsense.

      And look what is happening. We have gotten all the government the Socialists could want, and they still want more. We have gotten all the secularism the secularists could want, and they still want more. But they want does not work. Because it is immoral, they cannot make it work. Unless we respect those theodicy principles, we cannot make a republic work, but they won’t give up. Even though our country is sputtering and grinding to a stop, they still won’t admit that what they want won’t work.

      Some people just won’t accept the fact God is God, and they are not. So all we can do is spread His word and pray those who have ears will listen.

      Ultimately, it is about the salvation of souls. Brief periods of good government are just a byproduct.

      God bless you.


      1. I think that it is worth remembering that the scourge of progressivism in the United States was brought about by (mostly) God-fearing men. This is not to blame Christianity, but merely to observe that for most of the past century and a quarter there was little connection between belief in God (or absence of it) and the rise of socialist/statist bureaucracy and similar other plagues that progressives have wrought.

        Teddy Roosevelt’s speech here sounds good at first, until he reveals that he (as a proud progressive) would “grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used.”

        Note that if it is not “well used,” Roosevelt felt empowered to take it and use it in a way he considered better. He just needed laws to do this … or perhaps not. He described what he meant by “well used”:

        It is not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community. This, I know, implies a policy of a far more active governmental interference with social and economic conditions in this country than we have yet had, but I think we have got to face the fact that such an increase in governmental control is now necessary.

        So what did Teddy Roosevelt mean by “honorably maintained”? This:

        No man should receive a dollar unless that dollar has been fairly earned. Every dollar received should represent a dollar’s worth of service rendered—not gambling in stocks, but service rendered. The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means. Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and in another tax which is far more easily collected and far more effective—a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate.

        These ideas — income tax and estate tax — were years before Amendment 16. He had farmers in his sights as well:

        In particular, there are strong reasons why the Departments of Agriculture of the various states, the United States Department of Agriculture, and the agricultural colleges and experiment stations should extend their work to cover all phases of farm life, instead of limiting themselves, as they have far too often limited themselves in the past, solely to the question of the production of crops.

        To his credit, TR’s idea of welfare was only for those who deserved it:

        The fundamental thing to do for every man is to give him a chance to reach a place in which he will make the greatest possible contribution to the public welfare. Understand what I say there. Give him a chance, not push him up if he will not be pushed. Help any man who stumbles; if he lies down, it is a poor job to try to carry him; but if he is a worthy man, try your best to see that he gets a chance to show the worth that is in him … We keep countless men from being good citizens by the conditions of life with which we surround them.

        Roosevelt stated at the beginning of his speech that people would likely be branded a communist for what he was saying. He used Lincoln’s labor quote, but Lincoln was not inclined to nationalize industries to control capitalism.

        But at the time time, the Christian Broadcasting Network and others have pointed out that TR was a man of profound faith:

        CBN.com – One thing I have come to appreciate about Theodore Roosevelt is something that largely has been neglected by many history books. That is, the aspect of his fervent Christian faith. In some ways, he might be seen as the most Christian and the most religious of all presidents.

        ===|==============/ Keith DeHavelle


        1. Typos, including:
          “honorably maintained” should be “honorably obtained”
          “people would likely be branded a communist” should be “people would likely brand him a communist”

          ===|==============/ Keith DeHavelle


        2. Thank you for a great comment and your link back to this post.

          It is as you observed. In 1910, when TR gave his speech, our countrymen had already begun to divorce religion from politics. In his speech, TR did not speak of religious morality in his calls for greater government power. He merely said: “The object of government is the welfare of the people.” Yet that is not what the Declaration of Independence says. Neither does the Bible call upon government to provide for the welfare of the people. What the Bible calls for is that we each demonstrate our love for those in need in deed as well as word. No politician will ever provide genuine love, even if he calls it charity, through a government program.

          Do I like TR? Yes. On the whole I think he was a good president, but some of his ideas should have disqualified him from public office. Unfortunately, we elect men like ourselves, not angels.

          Why would we elect someone with TR’s unconstitutional notions? Men educate men, and we have chosen politicians to administer the education of our children. And to what do politicians devote their lives? Government, of course. As did TR, they see government as a great good, particularly when they are in charge of it. And TR did like to take charge.

          Through an accident of history, in the 18th century we had a generation of leaders well versed in both the Bible and history. These men too were not perfect, but they understood and accepted the fundamental weakness of government. Because men cannot be trusted with power the most we can trust our government to do is what it must do, protect our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Yet in spite of their careful design of the Constitution, by the end of George Washington’s second term, our people found themselves fighting to constrain the ambitions of power hungry men. Hence, Jefferson ran against the Alien and Sedition Act.

          In 1913, a little over a century latter and decades after the start of the public school system, the states approved the 16th and 17th Amendments to our Constitution. That’s just three years after TR gave that speech. The 16th Amendment permitted Congress to collect income taxes and the 17th Amendment required the direct election of Senators. Both amendments have proven to highly destructive of our republic. Their passage helped mightily to put us on the road to the Socialism we see today.

          Today stand at the end of a long string of losses; we risk entirely losing the battle. To reverse our losses, we need understand what the Founders accomplished, and we must persuade our fellow citizens that what the Founders accomplished is worth fighting to keep.


  2. Boy Tom you hit the nail on the head with this one. I appreciate your understanding of the biblical aspects of many of the news issues of the day (national debt, homosexuality, national healthcare etc). So many of us have a tendency to miss the connection.

    Also, I very much appreciate your logical proofs for the validity of the Bible record and Christianity. Again, this is a very ignored subject that needs to be examined and publicly presented in our educational system.

    Thanks for giving us more information to “chew” on. Lord bless.


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