220px-BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USNEvery now and then I get a comment I want to make certain my readers notice, and here is a good one. In the following,  Keith DeHavelle levels a broadside in support of a Convention of the States.

You asked for a substantive reply to this comment. Let us do it, ignoring your pretenses, protestations, and claims about what conservatives think.

Many of us conservatives find the idea of a Constitutional Convention to be a rather radical idea, Tom. There’s no clear way of measuring it, but my guess is that the majority of opinion among constitutional conservatives is against the idea of convening a new convention.

This is not what is being proposed. A “Constitutional Convention” to craft a new constitution is an idea loved by many on the Left, but there is no mechanism for this in our current structure. Thus, any such group would be making up its own rules, and could be a class of high-school students if they can sell their idea. And then, it would be imposed, if they could, by force or by salesmanship, but not through any extant legal process. And the current government would be duty-bound to oppose such a thing.

But this has nothing to do with the process laid out in Article V of the US Constitution, which details the process of the states putting forth their own amendments and (almost completely) bypassing Congress. That is what is being suggested, and that should be the focus of any remaining concerns you may have or pretend to. (continued here)

Pity the poor fellow on the receiving end. That’s  scout, and he wrote this comment.

Many of us conservatives find the idea of a Constitutional Convention to be a rather radical idea, Tom. There’s no clear way of measuring it, but my guess is that the majority of opinion among constitutional conservatives is against the idea of convening a new convention. The urge for a convention seems to bespeak a lack of confidence in a document that has served us very well indeed and which, as conservatives, our instincts are to preserve. A lot of us feel that the United States was extremely fortunate (even Providentially blessed, if you like) to get this document as our guiding operator’s manual and that it would be very unlikely that we would ever do so well again. The Founders were unique, both individually and in how they applied their knowledges and intelligences collectively in the 1780s. (continued here)

Whatever he is,  is not a Conservative.



10 thoughts on “A GREAT COMMENT!

  1. Careful Rob, People who express those concerns around here are often attacked with labels (or more accurately, have their labels removed).

    @ Keith – I have never been aware of any other kind of “constitutional convention” beyond that provided for in Article V of the current document. My concerns don’t assume that there is some other animal out there. I see nothing in the document that convinces me my concerns about the quality and cohesion of the delegates to such a convention, as compared to the 1787 convention, are baseless. Your assurances that, because many states are “conservative” or trending that way, we needn’t worry about protecting the benefits of the current system do not reassure me.

    Thanks, again, Tom for the latest in a series of serial excommunications. I will wear it with pride. It bolsters my conservative credentials in other quarters.


    1. I know that you pride yourself, scout, in using the wrong labels and you take a certain pride in statements like yours above where you assert that you have always used the wrong label for the plan in Article V. But a constitutional convention is to form a constitution. There is no provision to do this in Article V or anywhere else in the Constitution. We did that, prior to bringing this one into being, because almost all of the States instructed their delegations that this was the plan. The prior Articles of Confederation were not working well and needed a complete recrafting.

      In the process of writing the new Constitution, careful attention was paid to the amendment process, knowing that tweaks would be needed from time to time. They had to be possible, but not easy. Here’s the entire Article:

      Article V: The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

      What Article V lays out in its second clause (the aspect we’ve been discussing) has been referred to millions of times as “a convention of the states.” But the name officially given to it in Article V is “a convention for proposing amendments” as that is all it is empowered to do. There is no mechanism, no process, no pathway to do more. Period. And there is nothing that can be done with any such out-of-control result.

      Let’s say that your worst fears are realized — though in your case, you’re simply using this as a strawman argument to dissuade conservatives from making necessary fixes. Let’s say that someone during this amendment convention introduces a new constitution crafted by one of the many Soros puppet entities such as the Apollo Alliance group who gave us Obamacare. And let’s say that your leftist friends like it, and somehow manage to get it adopted at the convention as the New Plan.

      Then what? There is no process for approving a new plan shy of rebellion, as it is not an amendment to the current Constitution. But even if you were to craft an amendment that says “Amendment XXVIII: This amendment hereby replaces the entire US Constitution with Soros End-of-America Wet Dream Plan #1.” Do you think that the required three-fourths of the state legislatures, now largely conservative, would ratify it? I’d have said “don’t be silly” but you are making a career of that here.

      Nothing done at “a convention for proposing amendments” can have any legal effect until 37 of the current state legislatures ratify it. And yet, it is this strawman you pretend to fear. The only thing to your dubious credit here is the fact that the media and others have chivvied many otherwise reasonable people to actually believe this. That can be fixed with information. But your opposition to Constitutional conservatism is not based upon data; I do not expect your position to change.

      ===|==============/ Keith DeHavelle


      1. What I think people have trouble distinguishing is the difference between the process and abuses of the process. Obama and his like are already abusing our legal processes. Even before Congress passed Obamacare, for example, that law was unconstitutional. To make matters worse, Obama has constantly amended the law. To assume such powers to himself, Obama does not need a Convention of the States.

        We, however, can use a Convention of the States to limit the powers of the Federal Government and to empower the states to bring the Federal Government under control. Is there a possibility that our elected officials in Washington could highjack such a convention? Yes, but that problem already exists in DC. Devious opportunists have high jacked our government. We let them do it. Now we have to get rid of them, and we have to properly use our legal processes to do it. Otherwise, we will not have saved our republic. We will just be another faction fighting over the remains.


  2. Tom,

    Sadly things have come down to this. Yes, probably our only hope t this point is to have a constitutional convention.

    My only reservation is this…. several states seem to be becoming gradually more liberal (note the states that are sanctioning homosexual unions, marijuana legalization etc). My greatest fear is that, by holding a constitutional convention we are opening up a can of worms and may end up worse off than when we began.

    This may have been covered in previous postings by yourself or others. If so, I somehow overlooked them. I would appreciate any comments you may have on this. Thanks alot.

    Lord bless you.


    1. Please see my reply to scout below. It is possible, even likely, that “a convention for proposing amendments” (the formal name given in the Constitution for this process) could produce amendments we do not like, and that could (individually) get ratified.

      I say “even likely” because we Constitutional conservatives are not a monolithic block, though we are united in certain core principles. An example, though my intent is not to derail the conversation: Abortion. Some of us think that abortion is murder, at any stage, and should be banned. But even others who agree with this are sensitive to the fact that this is not the federal government’s business, and thus should never have been addressed at the federal level. Murder of adults, too, is morally wrong, but it is not determined by federal statute. So, whichever side prevails, the other would not be happy with the result.

      I am for, always, a small, focused federal government doing those things the framers chartered it to do. And nothing else. In the words of the Tenth Amendment, all other decisions “not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

      If a state decides to do as Obama once proposed (as a state senator) and allow children born “recently” to be killed if unwanted (he actually spoke of this as I noted here), the state’s own people can take corrective action. And competition will drive a process of improving conditions in all states, as opposed to the current “race to the bottom” encouraged by the current system. It is not perfect, but it is an inspired design that worked extraordinarily well until we overlaid judicial and legislative progressivism upon it.

      I hope this helps.

      ===|==============/ Keith DeHavelle


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