A GREAT COMMENT!

220px-BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USNEvery now and then I get a comment I want to make certain my readers notice, and here is a good one. In the following,  Keith DeHavelle levels a broadside in support of a Convention of the States.

You asked for a substantive reply to this comment. Let us do it, ignoring your pretenses, protestations, and claims about what conservatives think.

Many of us conservatives find the idea of a Constitutional Convention to be a rather radical idea, Tom. There’s no clear way of measuring it, but my guess is that the majority of opinion among constitutional conservatives is against the idea of convening a new convention.

This is not what is being proposed. A “Constitutional Convention” to craft a new constitution is an idea loved by many on the Left, but there is no mechanism for this in our current structure. Thus, any such group would be making up its own rules, and could be a class of high-school students if they can sell their idea. And then, it would be imposed, if they could, by force or by salesmanship, but not through any extant legal process. And the current government would be duty-bound to oppose such a thing.

But this has nothing to do with the process laid out in Article V of the US Constitution, which details the process of the states putting forth their own amendments and (almost completely) bypassing Congress. That is what is being suggested, and that should be the focus of any remaining concerns you may have or pretend to. (continued here)

Pity the poor fellow on the receiving end. That’s  scout, and he wrote this comment.

Many of us conservatives find the idea of a Constitutional Convention to be a rather radical idea, Tom. There’s no clear way of measuring it, but my guess is that the majority of opinion among constitutional conservatives is against the idea of convening a new convention. The urge for a convention seems to bespeak a lack of confidence in a document that has served us very well indeed and which, as conservatives, our instincts are to preserve. A lot of us feel that the United States was extremely fortunate (even Providentially blessed, if you like) to get this document as our guiding operator’s manual and that it would be very unlikely that we would ever do so well again. The Founders were unique, both individually and in how they applied their knowledges and intelligences collectively in the 1780s. (continued here)

Whatever he is,  is not a Conservative.

 

 

10 thoughts on “A GREAT COMMENT!

  1. Tom,

    Sadly things have come down to this. Yes, probably our only hope t this point is to have a constitutional convention.

    My only reservation is this…. several states seem to be becoming gradually more liberal (note the states that are sanctioning homosexual unions, marijuana legalization etc). My greatest fear is that, by holding a constitutional convention we are opening up a can of worms and may end up worse off than when we began.

    This may have been covered in previous postings by yourself or others. If so, I somehow overlooked them. I would appreciate any comments you may have on this. Thanks alot.

    Lord bless you.

    Like

    1. Please see my reply to scout below. It is possible, even likely, that “a convention for proposing amendments” (the formal name given in the Constitution for this process) could produce amendments we do not like, and that could (individually) get ratified.

      I say “even likely” because we Constitutional conservatives are not a monolithic block, though we are united in certain core principles. An example, though my intent is not to derail the conversation: Abortion. Some of us think that abortion is murder, at any stage, and should be banned. But even others who agree with this are sensitive to the fact that this is not the federal government’s business, and thus should never have been addressed at the federal level. Murder of adults, too, is morally wrong, but it is not determined by federal statute. So, whichever side prevails, the other would not be happy with the result.

      I am for, always, a small, focused federal government doing those things the framers chartered it to do. And nothing else. In the words of the Tenth Amendment, all other decisions “not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

      If a state decides to do as Obama once proposed (as a state senator) and allow children born “recently” to be killed if unwanted (he actually spoke of this as I noted here), the state’s own people can take corrective action. And competition will drive a process of improving conditions in all states, as opposed to the current “race to the bottom” encouraged by the current system. It is not perfect, but it is an inspired design that worked extraordinarily well until we overlaid judicial and legislative progressivism upon it.

      I hope this helps.

      ===|==============/ Keith DeHavelle

      Like

  2. Careful Rob, People who express those concerns around here are often attacked with labels (or more accurately, have their labels removed).

    @ Keith – I have never been aware of any other kind of “constitutional convention” beyond that provided for in Article V of the current document. My concerns don’t assume that there is some other animal out there. I see nothing in the document that convinces me my concerns about the quality and cohesion of the delegates to such a convention, as compared to the 1787 convention, are baseless. Your assurances that, because many states are “conservative” or trending that way, we needn’t worry about protecting the benefits of the current system do not reassure me.

    Thanks, again, Tom for the latest in a series of serial excommunications. I will wear it with pride. It bolsters my conservative credentials in other quarters.

    Like

    1. I know that you pride yourself, scout, in using the wrong labels and you take a certain pride in statements like yours above where you assert that you have always used the wrong label for the plan in Article V. But a constitutional convention is to form a constitution. There is no provision to do this in Article V or anywhere else in the Constitution. We did that, prior to bringing this one into being, because almost all of the States instructed their delegations that this was the plan. The prior Articles of Confederation were not working well and needed a complete recrafting.

      In the process of writing the new Constitution, careful attention was paid to the amendment process, knowing that tweaks would be needed from time to time. They had to be possible, but not easy. Here’s the entire Article:

      Article V: The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

      What Article V lays out in its second clause (the aspect we’ve been discussing) has been referred to millions of times as “a convention of the states.” But the name officially given to it in Article V is “a convention for proposing amendments” as that is all it is empowered to do. There is no mechanism, no process, no pathway to do more. Period. And there is nothing that can be done with any such out-of-control result.

      Let’s say that your worst fears are realized — though in your case, you’re simply using this as a strawman argument to dissuade conservatives from making necessary fixes. Let’s say that someone during this amendment convention introduces a new constitution crafted by one of the many Soros puppet entities such as the Apollo Alliance group who gave us Obamacare. And let’s say that your leftist friends like it, and somehow manage to get it adopted at the convention as the New Plan.

      Then what? There is no process for approving a new plan shy of rebellion, as it is not an amendment to the current Constitution. But even if you were to craft an amendment that says “Amendment XXVIII: This amendment hereby replaces the entire US Constitution with Soros End-of-America Wet Dream Plan #1.” Do you think that the required three-fourths of the state legislatures, now largely conservative, would ratify it? I’d have said “don’t be silly” but you are making a career of that here.

      Nothing done at “a convention for proposing amendments” can have any legal effect until 37 of the current state legislatures ratify it. And yet, it is this strawman you pretend to fear. The only thing to your dubious credit here is the fact that the media and others have chivvied many otherwise reasonable people to actually believe this. That can be fixed with information. But your opposition to Constitutional conservatism is not based upon data; I do not expect your position to change.

      ===|==============/ Keith DeHavelle

      Like

      1. What I think people have trouble distinguishing is the difference between the process and abuses of the process. Obama and his like are already abusing our legal processes. Even before Congress passed Obamacare, for example, that law was unconstitutional. To make matters worse, Obama has constantly amended the law. To assume such powers to himself, Obama does not need a Convention of the States.

        We, however, can use a Convention of the States to limit the powers of the Federal Government and to empower the states to bring the Federal Government under control. Is there a possibility that our elected officials in Washington could highjack such a convention? Yes, but that problem already exists in DC. Devious opportunists have high jacked our government. We let them do it. Now we have to get rid of them, and we have to properly use our legal processes to do it. Otherwise, we will not have saved our republic. We will just be another faction fighting over the remains.

        Like

Comments are closed.

Blog at WordPress.com.

Up ↑

Oh Lord, It's Monday!

Understanding The Bible In A Way That Transforms You And Your World

The Cripplegate

for a new generation of non-conformists

D. Patrick Collins

liberating christian thought

MUSINGS OF AN IMAGINARY BILLIONAIRE

Welcome to Conservative commentary and Christian prayers from Gainesville, Virginia. That's OUTSIDE the Beltway.

The Way Online

Christian Insight Through God's Word

Conservative Government

Welcome to Conservative commentary and Christian prayers from Gainesville, Virginia. That's OUTSIDE the Beltway.

The Night Wind

Welcome to Conservative commentary and Christian prayers from Gainesville, Virginia. That's OUTSIDE the Beltway.

Reclaim Our Republic

Knowledge Is Power

John Branyan

something funny is occurring

In Saner Thought

"It is the duty of every man, as far as his ability extends, to detect and expose delusion and error"..Thomas Paine

Christians in Motion

Christians in Motion

SGM

Faithful servants never retire. You can retire from your career, but you will never retire from serving God. – Rick Warren

The Latin Community

"You will be my witnesses." Acts 1:8

All Along the Watchtower

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you ... John 13:34

The Sheriff of Nottingham in Prince William County

Welcome to Conservative commentary and Christian prayers from Gainesville, Virginia. That's OUTSIDE the Beltway.

The Derecho

Welcome to Conservative commentary and Christian prayers from Gainesville, Virginia. That's OUTSIDE the Beltway.

The Bull Elephant

Conservative and libertarian news, analysis, and entertainment

Always On Watch: Semper Vigilans

Welcome to Conservative commentary and Christian prayers from Gainesville, Virginia. That's OUTSIDE the Beltway.

The Family Foundation Blog - The Family Foundation

Welcome to Conservative commentary and Christian prayers from Gainesville, Virginia. That's OUTSIDE the Beltway.

Cry and Howl

Let not him that girdeth on his harness boast himself as he that putteth it off. I Kings 20:11

Twenty First Summer

Thoughtful. Positive. Relevant.

Dr. Luis C. Almeida

Christian College Professor

praythroughhistory

Heal the past. Free the present. Bless the future.

Dr. Lloyd Stebbins

Deliberate Joy

Lillie-Put

The place where you can find out what Lillie thinks

He Hath Said

is the source of all wisdom, and the fountain of all comfort; let it dwell in you richly, as a well of living water, springing up unto everlasting life

partneringwitheagles

WHENEVER ANY FORM OF GOVERNMENT BECOMES DESTRUCTIVE OF THESE ENDS (LIFE,LIBERTY,AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS) IT IS THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO ALTER OR ABOLISH IT, AND TO INSTITUTE A NEW GOVERNMENT...

PUMABydesign001's Blog

“I hope we once again have reminded people that man is not free unless government is limited. There’s a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: as government expands, liberty contracts.” Ronald Reagan.

nebraskaenergyobserver

The view from the Anglosphere

Freedom Through Empowerment

Taking ownership of your life brings power to make needed changes. True freedom begins with reliance on God to guide this process and provide what you need.

bluebird of bitterness

The opinions expressed are those of the author. You go get your own opinions.

Pacific Paratrooper

This WordPress.com site is Pacific War era information

The Isaiah 53:5 Project

Life: the time God gives you to determine how you spend eternity

altruistico

People Healing People

THE RIVER WALK

Daily Thoughts and Meditations as we journey together with our Lord.

Silence of Mind

Where God Speaks and Creation Listens

My Daily Musing

With God we will gain the victory, and he will trample our enemies. Psalms 109:13

atimetoshare.me

My Walk, His Way - daily inspiration

Nickel Boy Graphics

Comic Strips (Some Funny, Some Serious)

Rudy u Martinka

What the world needs now in addition to love is wisdom

Truth in Palmyra

By Wally Fry

Kingdom Pastor

Living Freely In God's Kingdom

The Life Project

Finding Clear and Simple Faith

In My Father's House

"...that where I am you may be also." Jn.14:3

%d bloggers like this: