At FINDING PEACE IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE 2012 ELECTION — PART 2, we are having a furious debate. The fact people are discussing instead of fighting important issues is a good thing, but I do find the attitude that some people have towards other people’s money and other people’s lives disappointing. We debate issues that were once settled.

What are the topics of our debate? Abortion and taxes. Since the issue of abortion has been rather thoroughly discussed in other forums, I will let that topic rest in the threads at FINDING PEACE IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE 2012 ELECTION — PART 2.

Do I care about ending of evil of abortion? Yes, but I cannot debate everything at the same time. Only Socialist Democrats can do that — sort of.

The Comforting Drone Of The Hive

In FINDING PEACE IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE 2012 ELECTION — PART 3, I quoted a passage from Democracy in America by Alexis De Tocqueville. De Tocqueville worried that in our drive for equality we would lose our liberty. What inspired that concern? I suspect what he knew about the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror that followed it gave rise to his concern.

If we are to have Liberty, then it is almost essential that we have Equality before the Law. However, some people insist upon a different kind of equality. They want economic equality, and in their ideal world, they want us all to think, look, and behave the same way. In their dream world, men behave like happily buzzing little bees.

Are bees happy? I have never been able to ask one. I am happy they exist. Nonetheless, I don’t want to be like a bee. I don’t want to be forced to think, look, and behave just like everyone else, but that is what government-forced economic equality requires.

Consider this excerpt from one Eric’s comments.

You have no absolute right to property.  Period.  The government can take your property as allowed for in the Constitution.  If you had a God-given right to it, they could not take it.  End of story.  Same for your supposed God-given right to life.  Your government can take your life anytime they so choose and again it is perfectly allowable under the Constitution.  Just ask any number of the boys who were drafted and died in the US, Europe, Korea, and Vietnam.  The government has denied MILLIONS their so-called “right” to life. (from here)

What was Eric defending? He defended President Barack Obama’s reelection and Obama’s programs to redistribute the wealth. Eric wants the “rich” to pay their “fair share” — whatever that might be.

Yet never fear, we have an expert on what the rich’s fair share might be. What expert? Paul Krugman, of course.

Consider the question of tax rates on the wealthy. The modern American right, and much of the alleged center, is obsessed with the notion that low tax rates at the top are essential to growth. Remember that Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson, charged with producing a plan to curb deficits, nonetheless somehow ended up listing “lower tax rates” as a “guiding principle.”

Yet in the 1950s incomes in the top bracket faced a marginal tax rate of 91, that’s right, 91 percent, while taxes on corporate profits were twice as large, relative to national income, as in recent years. The best estimates suggest that circa 1960 the top 0.01 percent of Americans paid an effective federal tax rate of more than 70 percent, twice what they pay today. (from here)

Why would an economist suggest a stupid idea? Is Krugman an enemy of the rich? No. Then why would he advocate making the rich pay their fair share? Is it possible that Krugman is not an honest man? Is he only saying what he believes those in power want to hear?

What is making the rich pay their fair share all about? It is about a sin, that one mentioned in the Tenth Commandment.

You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor. (from here)

When a man appeals to one of our base desires — such as envy — he does not have our best interest in mind. He wants something for himself. Thus, when a demagogue campaigns to tax the “rich,” what he after is power, and any power he can use abuse the rich, he can use against anyone.

So What Does The Tenth Commandment Have To Do With Bees?

What does the Tenth Commandment have to do with bees? If envy — and jealous hatred — is what drives the quest for economic equality, then what becomes the state of men in a society that prides itself on its equality? What happens is what De Tocqueville warned us against. Because we fear the power of the majority’s envy, we force each other to become just another dull droning worker bee — to think, to look, and to act just like every other worker bee. After all, in a hive there is generally only one queen allowed at a time.

So When Is It Right To Make A Citizen Pay Taxes?

We need government to protect ourselves from each other. That is, we need government to protect our rights to life, liberty, and property protect. To pay for government to protect our rights, we tax each other.

Economic equality is not a right; it is just an excuse to covet what rightfully belongs to someone else.

Did Jesus Support Government-Run Charity?

No. Because our salvation is a personal matter, charity is a personal choice.


  1. Eric — The point of the Constitution is to limit the power of government. That, in fact, is the purpose of the clause on eminent domain.

    As for trust? The Bible specifically says not to place our trust in man. The Bible says we are to trust God, but the man you voted for insists that we put an inordinate amount of trust in him.

    Jimbo – I have already pointed that how you are misinterpreting the Bible passages you quoted. Yet instead of defending your interpretation, you just quote more Bible passages, compounding your error. If you don’t like my interpretations, please consult a good Bible commentary., for example, provides one at no cost to you.


  2. I think the issue that is being discovered here is that many Christians Conservatives actually do not trust in God to provide.


  3. Tom, it is truly bizarre to hear of someone claiming that the 10th commandment which tells *you and I* not to be covetous towards *our neighbor’s* property (and we’ll use that term loosely) somehow means that the endless new testament statements e.g.

    Where in the Scripture does it say we should ‘Render unto Caesar’ simply because he was unelected?

    Not here!
    matt 6:19-21

    Luke 14:33 (In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.)

    Luke 3:11 (“Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”)

    No church or religious organzation has feed as many people as Food Stamps, or educated as many as the public school system. Nor has anyone driven to church, synagogue, temple, mosque, etc on a religiously funded interstate system. Or had their finances insured by a church backed deposit insurance scheme! Jesus Himself recognized that taxation is part of life, and no big deal, as we should pay to the state what the state asks (regardless of the legitimacy of that government) and give away what else we have, for that brings its reward in Heaven.

    it seems to me you need to take careful heed of the passage in James is pointed you towards.


  4. What the sermon on the mount conveys is that God cares not about the money in your wallet and neither should you or I.


  5. Tom, the constitution specifically allows the govt to take your property through eminent domain. It also allows the govt the right to forfeit you life if it see fit to do so. How can you contend you have an absolute right to either. Once you acknowledge that there are limits to these rights, we can discuss what they should be.

    Btw, the power to promote for the general welfare is enumerated.


  6. Very good, James. Please note, Tom, what Jesus did NOT say. He did not say “that money is YOURS and you have a God-given right to it”. He certainly would have known and told us at that point if such we’re true.

    Btw, you did not address any of my points. Nothing you said made a case that we have an absolute right to property or life under the Constitution. Are you suggesting that God’s rights which He bestowed on us are not documented properly in the Constitution?


    1. Eric – I addressed your point. Do we have an absolute right to property? If we do not have such a right, then we exist only to be slaves of our government. Consider again what I said.

      We need government to protect ourselves from each other. That is, we need government to protect our rights to life, liberty, and property protect. To pay for government to protect our rights, we tax each other.

      If government only exists to protect our rights, and we have a right to property, then doesn’t government violate the reason for its own existence when it takes our property just to give it to someone else?

      What does the Constitution say? Look at the document upon which we based our nation. Every year we celebrate Independence Day. We celebrate the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. The Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution, is this nation’s primary founding document.

      We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. –That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

      The founders of this nation fought to protect their God-given rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Why that phrase, “the pursuit of happiness”? Because some Americans owned slaves, they did not want any confusion. Some Americans owned slaves and regarded slaves as property, and even Thomas Jefferson, a man who owned slaves, knew that owning slaves is wrong.

      What did Jesus say? The Ten Commandments is in the Old Testament twice, not just once. Look at the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus reaffirmed the Ten Commandments, and the Ten Commandments prohibit theft.

      In the Sermon on the Mount, did Jesus say anything about stealing? Not specifically.

      Matthew 6:24-34 Good News Translation (GNT)

      God and Possessions

      24 “You cannot be a slave of two masters; you will hate one and love the other; you will be loyal to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

      25 “This is why I tell you: do not be worried about the food and drink you need in order to stay alive, or about clothes for your body. After all, isn’t life worth more than food? And isn’t the body worth more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds: they do not plant seeds, gather a harvest and put it in barns; yet your Father in heaven takes care of them! Aren’t you worth much more than birds? 27 Can any of you live a bit longer by worrying about it?

      28 “And why worry about clothes? Look how the wild flowers grow: they do not work or make clothes for themselves. 29 But I tell you that not even King Solomon with all his wealth had clothes as beautiful as one of these flowers. 30 It is God who clothes the wild grass—grass that is here today and gone tomorrow, burned up in the oven. Won’t he be all the more sure to clothe you? What little faith you have!

      31 “So do not start worrying: ‘Where will my food come from? or my drink? or my clothes?’ 32 (These are the things the pagans are always concerned about.) Your Father in heaven knows that you need all these things. 33 Instead, be concerned above everything else with the Kingdom of God and with what he requires of you, and he will provide you with all these other things. 34 So do not worry about tomorrow; it will have enough worries of its own. There is no need to add to the troubles each day brings.

      Unlike Caesar’s era, we vote. When we vote, and we vote to take our neighbor’s wealth and give it to the “poor,” particularly if we are the poor, we steal from our neighbors. That is definitely not the best way to love our neighbors. Moreover, there is nothing in the Constitution that empowers the Federal Government to do that. So it is just plain wrong; it is serving money instead of God.

      If we are not careful, in our quest for power over our neighbors, some of us could find ourselves in the same predicament as Jefferson, regretting we have done something wrong, but not knowing just exactly how to undo what we have done.


  7. Economic equality is not a right; it is just an excuse to covet what rightfully belongs to someone else……………………..

    Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you (Matthew 5:42)

    Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you. (James 5:1-6)

    Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed. (proverbs 19:17)

    And as to taxation!

    They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s (Matthew 22:21)


    1. Jimbo — Quoting Bible verses that don’t support your point? That’s a curious reaction.

      Matthew 5:42 is from the Sermon on the Mount. What has that got to with government-run charity? Jesus called upon us to repent, to love God and neighbor. We can pay a 100 percent of our income in taxes, and we will never get a bit closer to God or reduce poverty one iota. In fact, we will all just be poorer.

      Instead of quoting James 5:1-6, please read it. What does it have to do with taking the wealth of the rich and giving it to high and mighty government officials? Nothing. James is warning the wealthy not to love their wealth more than God.

      Does proverbs 19:17 call upon us as individuals to give our wealth to high and mighty government officials or to be generous to the poor? Do you really believe our high and mighty government officials are generous with the poor? Don’t you realize they waste more money than not? Why? When politicians redistribute our wealth, their primary goal is is to buy the next election, not help the poor.

      And as to taxation!

      Our first priority is to render unto God that which is God’s, right? God, not Caesar, calls upon us to love our fellow man and to demonstrate our love through acts of charity.

      Look at the Bible. In many modern translations you will not even find the word “charity,” but you will find the word love hundreds of times. What government truly expects us to love each other? Isn’t that why we threaten people with jail time when they don’t pay their taxes? We don’t pay taxes in love! Yet without the act of a gift given in love, there can be no charity. That’s why redistributing the wealth is theft.


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