What is Deism?

One thing that is common these days is to assert that the Founding Fathers were Deists.  Since I doubt that the term deism is especially well understood, let us start with a definition.

Deism\De”ism\ (d[=e]”[i^]z’m), n. [L. deus god: cf. F.
d[‘e]isme. See Deity.]
The doctrine or creed of a deist; the belief or system of
those who acknowledge the existence of one God, but deny

Note: Deism is the belief in natural religion only, or those
truths, in doctrine and practice, which man is to
discover by the light of reason, independent of any
revelation from God. Hence, deism implies infidelity,
or a disbelief in the divine origin of the Scriptures. (from here)

As a religious philosophy, the key word is “reason”.  Because they do not believe it reasonable to accept relevation such as the Bible, Deists claim to derive their beliefs about God from God’s creation.   Curiously, however, with little actual proof some Deists readily accept the notion that the Founding Fathers were Deists.

Who were the Deists?

During the time of the Founding Fathers, Americans were not especially tolerant of non-Christians.  The idea of religious freedom was still being invented and only slowly being accepted.  Thomas Paine, one of the few known Deists amongst the Founding Fathers attests well to this fact as he begins The Age of Reason.

IT has been my intention, for several years past, to publish my thoughts upon religion. I am well aware of the difficulties that attend the subject, and from that consideration, had reserved it to a more advanced period of life. I intended it to be the last offering I should make to my fellow-citizens of all nations, and that at a time when the purity of the motive that induced me to it, could not admit of a question, even by those who might disapprove the work.

The circumstance that has now taken place in France of the total abolition of the whole national order of priesthood, and of everything appertaining to compulsive systems of religion, and compulsive articles of faith, has not only precipitated my intention, but rendered a work of this kind exceedingly necessary, lest in the general wreck of superstition, of false systems of government, and false theology, we lose sight of morality, of humanity, and of the theology that is true.

As several of my colleagues and others of my fellow-citizens of France have given me the example of making their voluntary and individual profession of faith, I also will make mine; and I do this with all that sincerity and frankness with which the mind of man communicates with itself. (from here)

Paine began his last great work in France as that nation sank into the Reign of Terror.  In his own way, Paine feared for the loss of the theology that is true.  So he started to write. Yet he had been right to wait.  Although The Age of Reason sold well, its publication helped to destroy his reputation.  Not content to explain his own beliefs, Paine directly attacked, particularly in Part 2 of The Age of Reason, the authenticity of the Bible.

The religious sensitivities of early Americans were such that the Founding Fathers avoided the mention of God in the Constitution.  They spoke about reverence for Almighty God and encouraged religious toleration, but many avoided discussing their personal beliefs.  So which of the Founders were Deists?  Most often the Founding Fathers included amongst Paine’s allies are spoken of as Deists.  These allies included George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson.

  • Was Washington a Deist?  Washington was closed-mouth about his personal religious beliefs.   He attended church services, but in the later part of his life he was not a communicant.  He promoted religious toleration, and he promoted the belief in God.  Washington established the tradition of chaplains serving in the United States military (see here).  In addition, Washington inaugurated the first Thanksgiving (see here).  Nonetheless, as he never made his personal beliefs about Christianity publicly known, Washington could have been a Deist.
  • Was Franklin a deist?   In his autobiography, Franklin makes it clear that he was a Deist.  Nonetheless, it is also apparent that Franklin had great respect for the teachings of Jesus.  Franklin had this to say a month before he died in a letter to Ezra Stiles.

    As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho’ it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble.

  • Was Jefferson a Deist?  In a letter to Ezra Stiles, Jefferson wrote “I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know” (see here).  Jefferson clearly questioned the divinity of Jesus.  At the same time, like Franklin, Jefferson had respect for the teachings of Jesus.  Jefferson studied the Bible intensely, trying to separate what he considered the myth from Jesus’ teachings.  Based upon what he extracted from the New Testament, he wrote two works:  “The Philosophy of Jesus” (1804) and The Life and Morals of Jesus (1819-20?).  Unsatisfied with the first work, Jefferson wrote the second (see here).  The second is also known as The Jefferson Bible.

If these men were Deists, then they were Christian Deists.  Even if they had trouble accepting the divinity of Jesus, they did have faith in His religious teachings.  What Jefferson discovered about himself, is perhaps true of everyone.  We are each our own religious sect.   Consider that as Paine, Washington, Franklin, and Jefferson approached the end of their years, each handled this crisis in his own way.  Paine sought to explain and convince others of the principles his own religious beliefs.  Washington gracefully accepted his role as a political leader; he set for others an example of resolute honor, Christian forbearance, and calm demeanor.  Franklin approached his end with humble faith.  And Jefferson scoured the Bible for something in which he could believe.

Other Founding Fathers

I have a book I bought in a bookstore at a national park some years back, The Signers of the Constitution by Robert G. Ferris and James H. Charleston.  In the fall of 1787, fifty-five delegates attended the Constitutional Convention.  Thirty-nine of those men completed the work and signed the document.  The book provides a brief biographical sketch of each of these men.  When I was first confronted with the notion that the Founding Fathers were Deists, I decided to look at the book once again.

Although Ferris and Charleston did not write their book to expound upon the religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers, their work does provide clues.  One signer at least was a religious minister.  On at least two other occassions, the church affiliation of a signer was sufficiently strong that the authors remarked on  this fact.  However, what is most revealing in the book is where most of these men are buried.  In an era when there was a great deal of empty land, and the families of most upstanding citizens had acreage of their own, at least twenty-eight of the signers were buried in the cemetery next to a Christian church.


  1. Actually Tom you have said you are right because you are right. I have said you are wrong because you dont have a logical foundation. There were no “Canaanites” from the Hebrew point of view. The bibles tails of Canaanites were fables/horror stories to scare children at night that you magically think are real and historically accurate. But they are not. I have put myself in the place of the people first hearing the words of the bible, what you haven’t done is put it in perspective of reality. Only when you understand reality can you actually put it into perspective. It doesn’t do anyone any good to pretend a bunch of fiction is reality. Lies are bad and lying is immoral, which is why the bible is evil.


    1. R.R. Edwards – I am not going to bother to respond anymore. If you want to hate Christianity, it is your choice and not one I can take from you. I can argue with you, but I cannot make you a Christian. I can only let you display your evidence and let others see how shallow it is. That you have done.


  2. R.R. Edwards – You honestly don’t get it, do you? God did not approve of slavery, but He allows us free will. Our forebears accepted slavery as a normal part of their culture. Do you condemn somebody for driving a car to work or wearing a coat in winter time? We are talking about a different time, a different place, and a different culture. These people accepted slavery as normal as driving a car or wearing a coat in winter.

    What Old Testament Law did is moderate the abuses. Instead of cherrypicking specific verses, try reading them in context. The Jews settled in an area where people worshipped idols, sacrificed their babies, and thought sex with prostitutes a form of worship. If you think the morals of our era rotten, try to imagine living with superstituous people who thought a hunk of wood needed to be apeased. Otherwise, they feared they would have nothing to harvest and eat.

    Leviticus 25 focuses on getting the Hebrews to at least treat each other decently. These people tended not to consider anyone outside their own families as entirely human. Foreigners! The foreigners were idol worshippers, had strange ideas, and were barely tolerable. There was no telling what they might do.

    Exodus 21:20-21 does not say you can beat your slave to death. Read it a again. Those verses are included in a section that provides for punishing those villains who hurt others. That includes the fatal injury of slaves.

    How you manage to interpret 1 Peter 2:18 the way you do, only the Lord knows. What is a slave suppose to do, kill a bad master? What would be the result of that? Do you actually understand how slavery worked? Even the slaves did not think slavery itself was evil. Do you have a boss where you work? What they wanted was for their master to be a good “boss.”

    Here are links to each chapter so anyone who wants to can read them in context.

    Leviticus 25

    Exodus 21

    1 Peter 2

    Consider this verse on Sin, Faith, and Duty.

    Luke 17:1-9 (Today’s New International Version)

    Luke 17
    Sin, Faith, Duty
    1 Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come. 2 It would be better for you to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around your neck than for you to cause one of these little ones to stumble. 3 So watch yourselves.
    “If a brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. 4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”

    5 The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”

    6 He replied, “If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it will obey you.

    7 “Suppose one of you has a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Will he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, ‘Come along now and sit down to eat’? 8 Won’t he rather say, ‘Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink’? 9 Will he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do?

    When a slave did what he was suppose to do, that was only what was expected. That is why when Jesus called even the lowly God’s children, the poor and the downtrodden well understood they were being offered a great gift.


    1. Tom- if your argument were true or logical, you would be saying the 10 commandments were the rules of men not of god. I would agree with that but it makes no sense for someone who hold the bible as sacrosanct so I can only think you simply don’t understand your own argument. If anything in the bible is true, the commandments have to be the moral code of god and they specifically allow for slaves as long as they get sunday off.

      The Hebrews did not settle in a foreign land. They were the survivors and descendants of the Canaanites. Trying to pretend Hebrews settled among foreigners is simply an uneducated stand. There was no exodus no matter how much you wish there was. Thus all of your references to fiction are moot. You can’t refer to an obvious fabrication and use it as evidence or an excuse for behavior any more than I could use Dr. Suess to do the same. You might as well be talking about all the who’s in whoville.

      Also I guess you don’t understand what Pete meant when he said that slaves must obey their masters in all things. You think that means they can’t kill their masters. Yes that is true and also they had to obey them in all things.


      1. R.R. Edwards –

        With respect to the Bible, for practical purposes, you just said I am wrong because I am wrong.

        The Hebrews considered the Promised Land their land, and considered the Canaanites foreigners. You want argue with them? You are thousands of years too late.

        Your interpretation of 1 Peter 2:18 is just plain foolish. If others started interpreting your words with the same degree of nonsensical bias, they would shoot you on sight.

        Anyway, you are still wasting time. What is the point cherrypicking the Bible to prove your biases? It is an exercise in futility. Why not try to understand the Bible’s message? Read it from cover to cover. Use a decent commentary and a systematic method. Try to put yourself in the position and the time of the first people who heard the words of each chapter.

        God help us all and good night.


  3. oh another sorry Tom, I thought that last post was from you, but I see it was Old Fashion Liberal. My bad.


  4. Sorry Tom, but cherry picking the stuff you like and using it out of context doesn’t actually make you correct. 1st let me repeat what history actually says about jewish slavery of others: they had no human rights and their slave status was passed to their children.

    The mistake you have made is is to quote how they were to treat slaves of their own people. The “pleasant” rules you quoted did NOT apply to slaves from other tribes that they owned. But, as I mentioned if you ignore reputable source and instead rely on the bible, it paints the same picture if you read the whole thing:

    Leviticus 25:44-46 – Pass foreign slaves to your children when you die and keeps them as slaves forever
    Exodus 21:20-21 – You can beat your slaves to death
    1 Peter 2:18 – slaves must always obey their owners in all things – e.g. sexual assault

    Also what is this last ridiculous statement you make – “Why did Christian nations seek to end a practice no other religion condemned?” First of all – all religions are evil, so what are you trying to say, Christianity is less evil? Obviously I disagree and as I have talked earlier, I use Hitler as an example of how evil Christianity is.

    Also the USA is dominated by Christians who are always screwing with it, but it is in no way a Christian nation. Ask the pope, he will tell you – e.g. he made a pact with Hitler, but has never approved of the US government. But seriously, how do you ignore that slavery was written into the US constitution as a requirement of Christians. So sorry, no you don’t get to use the US as a Christian nation. Also, when the French outlawed slavery it was while they were rejecting Christianity fiercely. Spain and Portugal did not “give up slavery”, their slaves simply revolted and freed themselves.

    I’ll give you Britain though – they rejected slavery as a Christian nation. Not much of a track record though. Interestingly China and most of the countries of the world outlawed slavery without becoming Christian – so uh – nice fantasy you have, but no.


  5. R.R. Edwards – Did you read what I wrote? I never contended that the ancient Jews saw much difference between a servant and a slave. That was a brutal time. Yet there was a difference, and that is why the translation uses both words. As best it can, it translation speaks to us in our language.

    In our era, the difference between a servant and a slave is clear. Nonetheless, we still do not want to be servants. Jesus promised we do not have to be.

    John 15:9-17 (Today’s New International Version)
    9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because servants do not know their master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.


    1. Yes Tom I read what you wrote and you have no case what-so-ever, except a desire to think there was some imaginary difference. Even the bible is clear and un-apologetic. These slaves where bought and sold, their children where born into servitude, they could be beaten to death for the smallest infraction, and the slaves had no rights for individual thought (beyond getting sunday off) – which means they also had to submit to sexual assault. Not only is this what the bible specifically says (all of these things are in the bible), it follows the definition of the word slave, and it also follows the historical record. It has no coloration with a “servant” – no matter how much you desire it to.

      In fact, it is a self serving insult to them (the slaves) for you to try to paint this disgusting behavior as “servitude” simply so that you can white wash the sins against them as a ploy to paint your god and religion as just.

      So beyond ignoring the evidence in the bible and the evidence in the dictionary and the evidence in the historical record, what source do you have that suggests your fantastic translation is “better”? I mean how can you so simply (and be an honest man) ignore all the evidence about the facts of jewish slavery and try to present this fictitious translation as “better”?


      1. R.R. Edwards – You have your history a bit mixed up. Actually you are talking about slavery as it existed in the American South prior to the Civil War.

        If you would read the Bible more carefully, you could do a better job of presenting your case. That assumes, of course, you would still want to argue in favor of such tripe.

        For example, here is a portion of Exodus that describes the status of servants.

        Exodus 21:2-11 (New International Version)

        Hebrew Servants
        2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.

        5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.

        7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

        Why was the Old Testament written this way? Here is a clue.

        Matthew 19:3-9 (New International Version)

        3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

        4″Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

        7″Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

        8Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

        The Old Testament was written for human beings, human beings with hard hearts. It took Jesus Christ to soften them a bit more.

        Instead of complaining about the Bible and the fact it speaks of what was, slavery, you might be better off wondering why some Christian nations fought to end slavery. Why did Christian nations seek to end a practice no other religion condemned?


  6. Tom – you are wrong. In the original greek, the word is doulos which means specifically chattel slaves with no free will and no self determination. Period. This is not even a point of contention by actual biblical scholars. The term “servant” was later supplanted by King James when he commissioned the less accurate version you are quoting when he realized how evil the word of god really was.


  7. R.R. Edwards – The Bible is an accurate historical record. The philosophy contained within it has affected our civilization for hundreds of years. Those reasons alone are enough cause to read it.

    All I ask you to do is cite those Bible passage which you say support your claims. If you have not read the Bible, then you are ignorantly repeating nonsense and wasting time. You have work to do. So you know what you are talking about, go read the Bible.


    1. Lordy. Please refer to my earlier citation Deuteronomy 5:14. If the “10” commandments are the moral standard from god – how does the culture of men enter into it? God changed his mind over the years? God realized that men were right and slavery is wrong? Ridiculous.

      As for the historical accuracy of the bible – hogwash. The 6 days creation is a lie. The flood is a lie. Anything that suggests there were ever Hebrews or Jewish people in Egypt is a lie. The birth of Jesus is a lie. ect. Now please find something that is not a lie. You have work to do.


      1. R.R. Edwards – God did not change His mind; he changed our minds.

        Let’s look at Deuteronomy 5:12-15 (Today’s New International Version)again.

        12 “Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

        With verse 15 God makes a specific point. Except for the grace of God, those ancient Jews would be no better off than their “servants.” Note the distinction in this more accurate translation. Servants were not treated much better than slaves, but they were treated differently.

        In fact, the servants the Jews owned looked much like them. In ancient times, some people submitted to slavery to avoid starving. Most people were in fact slaves. Since they knew no better, that is how they organized.

        By comparison with their neighbors, the Bible required those ancient Jews to treat their slaves humanely. However, you want to compare them to today, after 2000 years of Christian history. That is apples and oranges.

        The point of much of Deuteronomy and the Old Testament was to establish a legal and moral code. By living by the Law, the Jews sought to reach a higher standard of behavior that would make them more acceptable to God.


  8. humm I can’t seem to reply to Tom’s comment directly – how odd. Anyway Tom you are dead wrong. Slavery is specifically defended by the bible and the south specifically used the bible to defend the practice of slavery. I might suggest you read “Adventures of Huckleberry Finn” which was a scandalous book at the time of its writing as it showed clearly how the bible was used specifically to promote slavery.

    Even better, please read the bible itself. I am having to guess you have never in your life read the bible if you think it can not be used to justify the practice of slavery. For example, if you would even please learn the 10 commandments – the forth commandment condemns “god”, the bible, and all religions that spring from it as immoral and evil:

    Deuteronomy 5:14
    But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, or your son or your daughter, or your male or female slave, or your ox or your donkey, or any of your livestock, or the resident alien in your towns, so that your male and female slave may rest as well as you.

    Point of fact – you cannot allow your slaves to have a day off, without first having slaves. If god had any sense or moral, he could have condemned slavery in his commandments, but he didn’t. Instead he said – yes please have slaves, but if you don’t let them have sunday off, you will burn in hell. Brilliant god you have there. BTW, there is also a passage which Peter says that slaves are required to submit to rape – so don’t even try to pass this off as old testament or not “slavery” as we think of it.


    1. R.R. Edwards – The word slave is used in the Bible. Throughout history, men have owned slaves. Because our forefathers retained a free will, the birth of Abraham did not free men from physical slavery. Because our forefathers retained a free will, not even the birth of Jesus freed men from physical slavery — right away. So I do not deny the word slave is used in the Bible, and I do not deny that at one time people saw nothing wrong with slavery. At one time, people knew no better way.

      When we read the Bible we must do so with empathy. We must try to understand the sinners who went before us and learn anew what they learned.

      Do you really want to continue with this discussion? Then please support your claims by citing specific passages in the Bible. Explain how you arrived at your interpretation. With the help Internet we can seek the aid of far more learned Bible commentators than myself. While it made not possible to convince you of the absurdity of your claims, some may find the exercise more informative.


      1. Tom you are a good guy and I hate to see you so misled by something so evil. The thing is, you can’t give credence to the idea that the bible is the word of god or represents god in any way and then excuse the stupid things in the bible by the sins of man. Either the bible is the word/will of god or it isn’t. If it isn’t, then it is absurd to give it any more credence to it than any other fiction e.g. Dr. Suess. If it is the word/will of god, then he/it is an immoral evil creature that has managed to beguile the faint of heart or weak of mind. His love of slavery is just a single example of his depravity.


  9. Why are you good people trying to reason with this worthless troll? This was supposed to be a discussion of Deism instead you waste your time trying to reason with this religious bigot and probable Marxist-atheist defending the Pope, Constitution, and everything else he so blindly hates. One can’t reason with a blind nutcake.

    I can fill the history of the Constitution, but the troll has no interest in that. They couldn’t end slavery in 1787 because it would tear the country apart and a compromise was needed. Most at the Constitutional Convention opposed slavery and put the subject off till a later.

    The loss of about one million whites in the Civil War was the cost of ending slavery among other issues. It was the blood of Christian whites that ended slavery, not modern Marxist revolutionaries.

    So continue to waste time arguing with this atheist’ troll.


    1. Lewis, you are probably right. As I said, I seem to get sucked in by people like this. And it’s SO easy for me to get off track. However, I do find re-reading the Nazi 25 points reiterates my own beliefs about local and national history. So for that, a dialog with a troll has not been wasted, IMO. (Wouldn’t that be a great title for a book? “Dialog with a Troll”

      Lewis, while I understand your sadness over losing “whites,” I prefer to think of them as human beings and Americans. THAT is the tragedy. And please don’t forget all the black soldiers who served and were killed. Whether anyone was Christian or not is irrelevant. Killing is a tragedy, and so is war. That we resorted to killing one another here in our own nation is almost incomprehensible to me.


      1. Katherine Gotthardt – “Dialog with a Troll?” At some point, RR may want a serious dialog. I do not know. Nonetheless, it did not hurt to dig up the Nazi 25 points. Thank you.

        Consider again what Lewis meant by this statement.

        The loss of about one million whites in the Civil War was the cost of ending slavery among other issues. It was the blood of Christian whites that ended slavery, not modern Marxist revolutionaries.

        The Civil War was a war between White Christians fought over the enslavement of Blacks. Although Blacks were notable participants in the conflagration, it took another hundred years for Blacks to be in position to have a real say in the matter of civil rights.

        Why did some Whites consider slavery wrong? They found the enslavement of one man by another incompatible with their Christian beliefs. If God is love, and He has commanded us to love each other, then how can one man rightfully enslave another?

        How did Southern Whites defend slavery? Because Christianity is about the next life, not this one, they could not point to the Bible to defend it. Had they tried, they would have had to explain what was wrong with enslaving Whites. Then they would have found themselves hastily trying to explain self-contradictions.

        So what Southern Whites had to do was convince themselves that Blacks are so inferior they need slave-masters. To makes Blacks appear inferior, they had to prevent the education of Blacks. Effectively, Southern Whites had to keep both themselves and Blacks they had enslaved deluded with their own prejudices.


    2. Indeed, there were many Christians who died to end slavery – I have clearly said that Christians can be good people despite your ignorant claim of bigotry. Here is the important thing you missed though – the Northern Christians were educated enough and moral enough to realize their God and bible were wrong. When the north fought against slavery, they fought against the morality of the bible, which condones and justifies slavery. Everyone who fought and died to defend the south was a Christian and they were doing the work of the bible.


  10. RR, come now. Look at these:

    4. Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman.

    7. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.

    8. Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately.

    23. We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand:

    (a) All editors and their assistants on newspapers published in the German language shall be German citizens.

    (b) Non-German newspapers shall only be published with the express permission of the State. They must not be published in the German language.

    (c) All financial interests in or in any way affecting German newspapers shall be forbidden to non-Germans by law, and we demand that the punishment for transgressing this law be the immediate suppression of the newspaper and the expulsion of the non-Germans from the Reich.

    Newspapers transgressing against the common welfare shall be suppressed. We demand legal action against those tendencies in art and literature that have a disruptive influence upon the life of our folk, and that any organizations that offend against the foregoing demands shall be dissolved.

    24. We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race.

    Now…forced emigration, disallowing people to become citizens, squelching of the free press, religion ONLY if it “doesn’t offend”, everything must be written in German…those are okay? This is not “an evil agenda”? Read between the lines. Their 25 points give leeway to abuse sanctioned by a single group that expects to be obeyed without question.

    Sorry, but some of this rings a local bell to me. Think PWC’s original version of the Immigration Resolution.

    The Constitution was changed so that slaves were freed. This was a positive thing. Nazi Germany was replaced with a more fair and just system. Prince William County changed the Resolution. All of these things happened under duress created by good people who refused to accept the subjugation and persecution of others.

    If we do not change for the better, we die. That should be the lesson of Nazi Germany.


    1. I noticed how you skipped the part that said that Nazi’s were Christians. As for your “read between the lines” I basically agree, however, it does not explicitly state that black men are merely 1/4 of a man – for example. So yes The Nazi points can be used to do evil – it has holes that allow evil to be done. But the original US Constitution didn’t require a loose translation – it simple had the evil built directly into it (slavery).


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