WHY IS THE DEBATE ON SPANKING SILLY?

Children’s Games Pieter Brueghel the Elder (1526/1530–1569) (explanation here)
Children’s Games by Pieter Brueghel the Elder (1526/1530–1569) (explanation here)

Do you want to get an inkling of the sheer silliness of some people’s priorities? May I suggest you read some of the comments to this post:  punishing children. Because the conversation is so shallow, I have given up commenting.

Our ancestors struggled to survive. Pain was unavoidable, but we are so modern. For us spanking is suppose to be a grand tragedy, but it really isn’t. We still cannot completely avoid pain.

  • There is still physical pain. Many a cancer patient can tell you about that, and bullies still beat up their classmates.
  • There is emotional pain. Failed dreams. Rejection. A death in the family.

What is different from the past? I am not certain anything really is different. I just know people who insist upon making an issue of spanking apparently don’t have anything better to do.

What follows are some are some of the comments from punishing children.

So My Neighbor Spanks His Child? That’s A Problem?

violetwisp on February 17, 2017 at 6:57 pm said:

“Some how, some way parents must teach a child to control that belief, that pride in self. More often than not before a child can learn the rewards of loving someone, that child must learn the consequences of arrogance the hard way.”

Where’s the ‘must’? Tildeb and Barry, quite calmly, have explained to you how gentle, reasonable techniques have more positive effects on children. If you take issue with that, show me somewhere (there must be somewhere, right?) that can demonstrate the positive effects of parenting with violence (or physical discipline, if you prefer). I can’t find any.

  • @violetwisp

    What Tildeb’s and Barry’s explanation comes down to is that they have different ways of punishing a disobedient child. The notion that we can always reason with a wilful two-year old is just silly. Moreover, as you suggested your post, “punishing children”, ANY form of punishment can be taken to an extreme.

    The Bible doesn’t actually say we have to spank a child, and that is not really the issue. What the Bible says is that if we punish a child because we love that child and want them to behave, that child will survive and be better off for it.

    What you are preoccupied with is making other parents raise their children your way. Not my problem.

    Spanking a child is not child abuse. Child neglect — not teaching a child to behave — is child abuse. Yet silly people get all worked up about spanking. That’s mostly just because a few people lose it, and the bruises and broken bones are obvious. Newspapers can get vivid photos, and the virtue signalers can tell us how they would never do that.
    🙄

    I suppose stupid sadists also beat kids half to death, but abuse has many other, more subtle forms.

    Neglect, I suspect is a more common problem. Even if we feed, cloth, and shelter a child, we still neglect that child if we don’t teach that child self-discipline. Until we learn self-discipline, we are not prepared for life.

Setting The Threshold Way Too Low

violetwisp on February 17, 2017 at 9:28 pm said:

This is a real problem. I hate seeing children needlessly suffering. There’s simply no reason to approach parenting with any form of violence.

  • When people speak of virtue signaling and a bleeding heart, what are they talking about? It is about setting the threshold for suffering so low it is an insult to those who actually are suffering.

    You want to understand pain? Then study the matter. Imagine being skinned alive. Then compare that to a spanking.

So what is the point of this post? Is it about spanking? No. It is about priorities. People were spanking their children long before recorded history. That does not make it right, but spanking works well. Perfectly? No. For example, as an child grows older spanking becomes a greater offense to his or her dignity, and we are big into self-esteem these days. Hence, spanking is not as popular as once was.  Still, children need to be disciplined.

So what is the point of this post? If you are represented by a politician who advocates a complete ban of spanking, even within the privacy of your neighbors’ homes, you have my sincere pity. That man has no sense of proportion. What he wants is simply a waste of government resources and a good example of why government should not be in the businesses of educating our children. Do we need such busybodies sticking their noses into our lives and interfering with how we raise our children? No.

When we vote, we need to vote for someone who can tell the difference between a real crime and a difference of opinion that offends his ever so superior sensibilities.

the observation of love by a wee flea

You blog or comment on politics? Then please read “the observation of love by a wee flea.” It is a timely reminder that we need to separate what we hate from those whom we should love.

Because I can get angry, there are times my words are filled with sarcasm. There are times I make a point of adamantly condemning Socialism as both wrong and unworkable. Nevertheless, because I believe in the teachings of Jesus, I try not to condemn people who believe in the supposed wonders of Socialism.

Jesus could point to a man and say hypocrite; I can rightly only point to a man’s conduct and say hypocritical. I can rightly only hope that on this day at least I won’t make a hypocrite of myself.

What is the point of my blog? If not to judge, then why do I blog? Do I have all the answers? No. Do I expect thousands to gratefully accept the great wisdom in my instruction? No. I just hope I will cause a few people to read the Bible.

Years ago I gave up the notion I will make someone who is a Liberal (in the modern sense) into a Conservative. I am just not that persuasive. Still, if I can point someone who is lost (as I once was) to the Bible, that person will learn what I did.

Proverbs 10:12 New King James Version (NKJV)

Hatred stirs up strife,
But love covers all sins.

That will be well worth the many hours I have spent online. Love may not make a Liberal into a Conservative, but it will make it possible for a Liberal and a Conservative to live in the same country. In the name of Jesus Christ we will have unity.

cookiecrumbstoliveby

“Contrary to what might be expected, I look back on experiences that at the time seemed
especially desolating and painful,
with particular satisfaction.
Indeed, I can say with complete truthfulness that everything I have learned in my seventy-five
years in this world,
everything that has truly enhanced and enlightened my existence,
has been through affliction and not through happiness, whether pursued or attained…
This, of course, is what the Cross signifies.
And it is the Cross, more than anything else, that has called me inexorably to Christ.”

Malcolm Muggeridge

Cartoon Flea Success Cartoon Flea Success

Yesterday I found myself reading over the latest blog offering by the Scottish Pastor
David Robertson….
who once again, expresses so much more eloquently what I feel…

Thoughts and words I’ve been trying to convey here in my little corner of the blogosphere..
for quite sometime, but seem to fall a bit short of his more marvelous observations.

View original post 836 more words

EVIDENCE OF VOTER FRAUD

vote for americaWhat is the problem of proving voter fraud? We have to have people running our voting systems who are willing to look for it.

Consider the irony. What’s the big news? Democrats, without any evidence, claim Russia fixed the presidential election.  Yet Democrats are unwilling to: ensure that only citizens can register to vote, clean up the voter registration rolls, or require proof of identity when people vote. No one except the Russians are trying to cheat in our elections?

What are Democrats doing to our voter registration and vote tallying systems? They are working to eliminate any effort to verify people vote honestly. Instead the are diligently working to make it as easy and as convenient as possible to register and to vote.  How do we know someone is who they say they are when they register to vote? Who cares? Isn’t everyone honest? Are you who you say you are when you vote? Who cares? Isn’t everyone honest?

If we don’t even look for cheating, we will not find it. It is cinch the cheaters will not inform on themselves.

Is there evidence of fraud? Yes, but you won’t find much of it in the Modern Liberal news media. So you have to dig deeply for the evidence, but your can find examples.

Really, most of the evidence is in our local news. That’s why Delegate Rob Bell sent out this email in November 2016.

Dear Citizen,

Still don’t believe in voter fraud?

In Alexandria, a campaign worker for a Democratic-aligned group was arrested and charged for registering fictitious voters.

In Newport News, a man received a voter registration at his address, but with a different name.  He brought it to prosecutors, who identified 32 others cases where this may have happened.

In Harrisonburg, a canvasser working for a group organized by a local Democrat was caught after attempting to register 19 dead Virginians.

Honest elections should be a priority for everyone.  But Mark Herring is still refusing to defend Virginia’s photo ID law in court. And Terry McAuliffe vetoed photo ID requirements for absentee ballots and a second bill to help keep non-citizens off Virginia’s voter rolls.  Democratic leaders are fighting our commonsense efforts to stop voter fraud in the first place.

After the last few weeks, not even Democrats can credibly argue that voter fraud doesn’t exist.

If you have evidence of voter fraud, be sure to report it to authorities. And as we try to move forward, we need your help. If you haven’t already, join the fight — sign the online petition by clicking here.

Sincerely,

Delegate Rob Bell
Republican Candidate for Attorney General

What will you find easily find online when you google voter fraud evidence. To prevent a proper investigation, the largely Liberal News media is ridiculing reports of voter fraud.  This behavior looks much like the Wizard in the “Wizard of Oz” telling Dorothy not to look behind the curtain. The only proper description for it is suspiciously weird. Why wouldn’t the news media love to see such an investigation? If nothing is found, then the president they hate looks bad. If something is found, it makes for fascinating news. They cannot lose — unless they care more about getting Democrats elected than what is good for the country.

 

AMBUSHED AGAIN…..SIGH!

childrenI suppose I should know better than to post comments on some blogs.  Shrug.

To prove something or other (figure it out for yourself), violetwisp posted a fragment of a comment I made on her blog. See punishing children. I suppose I could comment in some detail, but I won’t bother. Mostly, I will just post a few comments from this post: breaking news: more bible translation errors discovered also at violetwisp.

Why not say more? When I read their comments at punishing children, it quickly became obvious that the people whose opinions I care about think violetwisp is being absurd.

So here is my reply. We make choices. Then we deal with the consequences, but some people grow up thinking they are exempt from suffering the consequences of their bad choices. Those people try to shift the consequences of their bad choices onto others. The enslavement of others is an extreme example of such behavior.

Children who receive proper discipline know that it is not right to make others suffer the consequences of their bad choices. That’s the basic difference between a responsible citizen and one who isn’t. The responsible citizen accepts personal responsibility. It also seems to be a big difference between the Modern Liberal and a Conservative. Hence that is probably why Modern Liberals and Conservatives divide so predictably on this issue.

Anyway, violetwisp has given me a good excuse to post some Bible verses.

To our modern ears, the Bible can make discipline sound harsh.

Proverbs 23:12-14 New King James Version (NKJV)

12 Apply your heart to instruction,
And your ears to words of knowledge.

13 Do not withhold correction from a child,
For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die.
14 You shall beat him with a rod,
And deliver his soul from hell.

Beating a child with a rod sounds awful, but consider the alternative.  The rod was for the child who would not listen.

Proverbs 29:15 New King James Version (NKJV)

15 The rod and rebuke give wisdom,
But a child left to himself brings shame to his mother.

Moreover, the point of proverb is to encourage parents to save their children, not hurt them. The point is to get a child’s attention so they will listen.

When I was little, I was a rascal. My mother was a small woman.  Once she realized spanking me with her hand hurt her hand more than my butt, she began using a wooden brush.  Still, I was trouble and had an uncontrolled temper.  When I threw a toy gun (made with metal in those days) and hit another child, my father used his belt on my butt. After that, I finally began to understand the consequences of bad behavior.

Anyway (again), here is the first link (to my first comment in the thread) to the comments in the thread violet that violetwisp extracted a fragment of one of my comment on her post.

https://violetwisp.wordpress.com/2017/02/10/breaking-news-more-bible-translation-errors-discovered/#comment-29948

Here is the full text of the comment that the fragment violetwisp quoted came from.

@violet

We are works in progress. We each have to deal with our problems as we best know how.

Did I discipline my children as well as I should have? No. I have a temper, and the ability of my eldest when she was two to set it off scared me. So I would have been stupid to wait until I was furious. Did that once. Did not hurt the kid, but I was thoroughly ashamed that I was about to lose it. It is important to be meek.

Just the same, when my wife was home alone with two kids, she had to do something with the older child or she could not take care of the new-born. She finally conceded the necessity of punishment (spanking was not something she liked either). Mostly she just stuck the two-year old in the backyard (fenced) until the child agreed to behave. Even with a shaded patio deck, Houston, TX can be quite uncomfortable without air-conditioning. Watching that stubborn, wilful little girl cry hurt my lady more than it did my eldest. Still, it worked.

There are spankings, and then there are very disagreeable alternatives that are just as punishing. Frankly, I prefer what my wife did, but it takes more patience, and the weather has to cooperate.

Why was the oldest misbehaving? Part of the reason is that she had lost her status as the center of mommy’s attention. So mommy included her as much as she could in taking care of her sister. Still, two-year old children will act up, and sometimes the “reason” for their bad behavior is they just want to do something they know they are not suppose to do. Even a two-year old child can be a control freak, and that kid was smart. She is an MD now. (from => https://violetwisp.wordpress.com/2017/02/10/breaking-news-more-bible-translation-errors-discovered/#comment-30008)

Here is the first link in another thread on the same post that that also relates disciplining children.
https://violetwisp.wordpress.com/2017/02/10/breaking-news-more-bible-translation-errors-discovered/#comment-29896

I suspect these two comments are the ones that most irked violetwisp.

  • “she disapproves of punishing children when they do wrong”
    Absolutely! It’s all about setting good examples and providing reasons for behaving in a socialised manner that takes other people’s feelings into consideration. Children aren’t ‘bad’, they’re just clueless about social norms until they’re sufficiently exposed to them, and they have some very basic needs (food, rest, comfort) that people tend to overlook before they launch into counter-productive disciplining. And this is one of the reasons I can never accept the Christian god in the Bible – the caricature of this omniscient being punishing its puny creation is disgusting.

    • @violet

      Well, you just gave away the game.

      It was never was anything about what insanitybytes22 actually said. It was about your perception, what you believe. It was about the fact Christianity offends you. Its mere existence offends you.

      I was that way once. The notion of God dying on a cross caused me to roll up my eyes. I could not understand the idea of original sin, that we are born with an affliction that only the love of God can cure. And the idea of a God with so much power…… What was little Tommy compared to Him?

      I have watch children grow. Brothers. A sister. My own. They are not entirely clueless. They waste no time learning the word “mine”. We are born with an insatiable pride. ME FIRST!

      Only love can quench a child’s pride, but first we must get a child’s attention. Without a bit a of mild punishment that’s next to impossible. With one child? Maybe. We can hold a child until it is willing to accept direction, if you have the time. With two or more? No way. Not even the most devoted stay at home mom or dad has that kind of time.

      If you love your kids, the choice between letting them run wild and smacking them on the bottom quickly becomes obvious. At least it does for people who raise their own kids.

I don’t think violetwisp liked my explanation of her attack oninsanitybytes22, not that I said anything that was not obvious to everyone from the start.