If the shoe were are the other foot, imagine the publicity. The story is out there, but it is not getting much coverage. Here are some of the headlines.
- Court Upholds Expulsion of Counseling Student Who Opposes Homosexuality
- Court rules student counselors must ‘affirm’ gay clients
- Lawsuit claims school bias on Christian views
- A Disappointing Ruling in Michigan
What is involved? The Alliance Defense Fund is defending two Christian ladies who want to uphold their Christian beliefs at public universities.
Amazingly, there are not just one, but two cases. Both feature attractive ladies and a controversial topic. Yet that does not seem to be sufficient to attract much attention from the lamestream media. Nope. We got to protect the “good guys” from their own bad publicity.
What crime have these ladies committed? They are unwilling to endorse homosexuality. Both ladies are in graduate programs in school counseling, and neither is willing to accept homosexuality as normal, ethical behavior. So the universities these ladies attend want to throw them out.
Believe it or not, a judge has already upheld Julea Ward’s expulsion. Get this quote.
In his 48-page opinion, Judge Steeh said the university had a rational basis for adopting the ACA Code of Ethics.
“Furthermore, the university had a rational basis for requiring students to counsel clients without imposing their personal values,” he wrote in a portion of his ruling posted by The Detroit News. “In the case of Ms. Ward, the university determined that she would never change her behavior and would consistently refuse to counsel clients on matters with which she was personally opposed due to her religious beliefs – including homosexual relationships.” (from here)
We actually want people to pretend to believe something — when they don’t? Is that not the alternative?
What is absurd is that these universities actually claim not to discriminate. Nope. They just insist you think their way because that is the only correct way to think. Because Keeton has expressed a view contrary to her faculty, here is what Augusta State University insists she do.
The lawsuit says Augusta State faculty members developed a remediation plan specifically for Ms. Keeton and told her she would be expelled from the College of Education’s counselor-education program if she did not fulfill its requirements. The plan calls on Ms. Keeton to attend workshops on serving diverse populations, read articles on counseling gay, lesbian, and bisexual and transgendered people, and write reports to an adviser summarizing what she has learned. It also instructs her to work to increase her exposure to, and interaction with, gay populations, and suggests that she attend the local gay-pride parade. Ms. Keeton has refused to comply. (from here)
The above quote is from the Chronicle of Higher Education. Here is how another source puts it.
Jennifer Keeton, 24, who is pursuing a master’s degree in counseling, said she was ordered to undergo a re-education plan that requires her to attend “diversity sensitivity training,” complete additional remedial reading and write papers to describe their effects on her beliefs, according to the lawsuit filed Wednesday.
The ultimatum: Complete this re-education plan or be expelled from ASU’s Counselor Education Program. (from here)
It is not a matter of just completing remediation training. Keeton has to change her opinion. Even if she completes the program, she has no guarantee she will not be expelled.
Note that the expulsion from Augusta State University specifically targets Christians.
Two faculty members, according to court documents, said that Miss Keeton is prejudiced because of her ethical beliefs on GLBTQ issues. In reply, she asked them how her Christian convictions are any less acceptable than those of a Buddhist or Muslim student, to which one faculty member replied, “Christians see this population as sinners,” court papers show. (from here)
These ladies are being thrown out of public universities paid for by tax dollars. These are universities responsible for educating the people who educate our children. And what does their faculty believe? Unless you believe there is nothing wrong homosexuality, you are not qualified to be a school counselor. That is, if you believe what the Bible says about homosexuality, you are not qualified to be a school counselor.
You know what’s funny Tom? In the Muslim religion, homosexuality is also against their tenets. In fact, the proscribed punishment in some muslim countries is jail time, fines or corporal punishment.
This from missionislam.com;
According to a pamphlet produced by Al-Fatiha, there is a consensus among Islamic scholars that all humans are naturally heterosexual. 5 Homosexuality is seen by scholars to be a sinful and perverted deviation from the norm. All Islamic schools of thought and jurisprudence consider gay acts to be unlawful. They differ in terms of penalty:
The Hanafite school (currently seen mainly in South and Eastern Asia) teaches that no physical punishment is warranted.
The Hanabalites, (widely followed in the Arab world) teach that severe punishment is warranted.
The Sha’fi school of thought (also seen in the Arab world) requires a minimum of 4 adult male witnesses before a person can be found guilty of a homosexual act. Al-Fatiha estimates that 4,000 homosexuals have been executed in Iran since their revolution in 1979. 10 public executions of homosexuals have been performed in Afghanistan by the Taliban army.
Buddhists seem to be somewhat ambivalent about homosexual activity, although it is prohibited to Monks. Buddhism does say that it is an unnatural act, though.
All this is to say that it seems like Christians realize that God will punish people who indulge in this behavior and it’s not for us to judge, except to say that we don’t condone it and refuse to promote that lifestyle.
Christianity is probably the most tolerant religion and yet it and the folks who practice it are the most persecuted.
Regards, Mike
Mike, thanks for the background on how Muslims and Buddhists regard for homosexuality. I did not know what Buddhists thought of homosexuality.
I have just one comment on your choice of words. We have to be careful about using the opposition’s language. Christians don’t tolerate homosexuality; we forbear the practice. What homosexual advocates want is for Christians to tolerate the practice. In fact, many insist that we must approve.
Christians make it quite clear to homosexuals that we think the practice of homosexuality wrong. Without making a value judgment, secularists, on the other hand, either tolerate or approve.
In our country, most secularists don’t take either Muslims or Buddhists seriously. They regard Muslims as savages and Buddhists as mystic curiosities. Christians they take seriously, and they hate us for it.
Have you ever done something you knew was wrong? Has someone you told you should not be doing that bad thing? That person giving you that good advice made you angry, didn’t they? It was yourself you hated, but it was convenient to turn your anger on the messenger.
Thus, nonjudgmental secularists find themselves popular with homosexuals, and Christians, who actually care about the salvation of homosexuals, find themselves abhored. Where the Christian forbears, the secularist tolerates.
You know, I have no problem with homosexuality and agree that personal opinions don’t really apply in counseling or in the medical field. However, there are such things as Christian counselors, and I think there is a place for counselors of different faiths. A different kind of certification can be allowed due to separation of church and state.
I don’t believe people should be expelled for their religious beliefs, no matter what those beliefs may be. That said, when I attended a State college, I had to study things I didn’t agree with, but I still had the option to live according to my own convictions. It’s all part of the free choice we are given in this country.
The ladies should be free to express themselves, but they also must pass tests if they want to attend certain schools or work in publicly certified fields. They have the option to pass the test, maintain their convictions and move on. Conversely, not being allowed to voice dissent is a violation of free speech, so long as they are not promoting hatred.
Doctors go through similar hurdles all the time when they refuse to perform abortions. But private hospitals do not require doctors to provide abortions. In fact, in some hospitals, they don’t even allow sterilization. I know this because when I tried to get a tubal ligation, I had to go to a hospital other than the one I gave birth to my daughter in, even though I had already been cut open for a c-section. It was their choice to make their policy, and it was my choice to go to another hospital.
Finally, I have a problem when I am refused my right to speak my mind, as I think most privileged Americans do. The thought police can go to hell.
Katherine – Although I would rather rehabilitate the thought police than wish them to hell, I appreciate your willingness to allow dissent.
Like you, I adamantly object to their policies. Nevertheless, I retain some empathy for the thought police. Consider this line from your comment.
What is promoting hatred? How do we define such a thing? As far as both Augusta State and Eastern Michigan universities are concern, don’t Keeton and Ward promote hatred against homosexuals? Gosh! Don’t Keeton and Ward call them sinners?
Of course, I doubt that the faculty at either university well understand Christianity. The Bible says we are all sinners, and it condemns hatred. Jesus commanded us to love even our enemies. Yet people act upon their perceptions, not facts. Thus, we outlaw only that speech intended to cause another physical harm.
What led to Keeton’s and Ward’s dilemma? Government now runs most universities. Therefore, neither lady could choose a low cost school that is either sympathetic or neutral to their views.
In addition to free speech, our Constitution also promotes freedom of assembly. Unfortunately, when government starts to run everything, it becomes impossible to put that freedom into practice. It is when we don’t have a alternative choices that the thought police run rampant. When the government runs everything, our rulers can run our lives. Given the opportunity, our rulers will seek to control what we think and believe.
To me, the perfect example of promoting hatred is Westboro “Baptist Church.” Other examples: harassing or encouraging harassment, threatening, inflicting violence or treating others as sub-human. Some of these actions are also illegal. So that’s what I mean by promoting hatred. Hope that clarifies.
As far as going to a lower cost school–I bet these ladies would be offered scholarships from some credible Christian schools, especially now, if they applied.
Thanks for the correction Tom.
But you got the gist of what I meant I think.
Regards, Mike
Mike, regards to you as well.
Katherine, I appreciate your comments, and I know you make an effort to be fairminded. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree about school choice, but I must admit I find it puzzling how you can support taxing people to pay for schools staffed by teachers teaching things they find abhorrent. Where is the necessity? Whose rights do we protect by doing this?
Yes, it may be possible that those ladies can attend Christian schools and send their children to Christian schools. There is little doubt they will pay taxes for public universities and public schools. Moreover, the special interests that insist on this butchery of their rights will pretend this double payment is fair and proper, but we all know it is not. We don’t even do it for the children.
To ensure poor children receive an educaton, government does not have to take over the education system. We have a government-run education to enforce conformity. Government-run education is what empowers the thought police. It is in school we are indoctrinated to submit.
In earlier eras, government and religion intertwined. In our era, we supposedly have separated church and state, but look closer. What the elite now do is educate their own children in private schools. Then they pressure the rest of us into public schools that pretend God does not exist. Instead of God, we are subtly persuaded to look to government, not a person, but the Great Bureaucracy.
Of course, we have balance. Parents may still see to the religious education of their children. Thus, some children spend a few hours each week in church and days each week in school. Yep. That’s balance.
“I must admit I find it puzzling how you can support taxing people to pay for schools staffed by teachers teaching things they find abhorrent.”
I guess I wonder how we could make a school in which everything taught is agreed upon by all funding that school and all attending. Is it even possible? I am not sure it is not. Thus, I am a proponent of various types of schools that match belief systems.
I am also fond of larger schools that offer more options.
You are correct that mandating conformity is dangerous.
Katherine – Liberty is about people making their own choices and voluntary compromises. Every time we spend a dollar we vote. We don’t buy exactly what we want. We buy what approximates what we want at a price someone is willing to sell it. So no, we could not make a school in which everything taught is agreed upon by all funding that school and all attending. But in the private market each person attending would have a true choice, something that is now absent for everyone save the well-to-do.
The First Amendment to our Constitution contains a right that most people give little thought
The people have the right to peaceably assembly. We have the right to assemble for any purpose. That includes educating ourselves and our children, and there is something insidious about any government that interferes with that right. Parents have the right and the responsibility to see to it that their children receive proper instruction.
When there is no way we could make a school in which everything taught is agreed upon by all, it does not even make sense to put politicians in charge of teaching our children how to think and what to think. This is obviously true when we expect our schools to teach civics. Putting the government in charge is equivalent to giving the fox guard duty over the henhouse. However, what is more important are the values we pass on to our children. What values does the public school system promote? Secularism? Socialism? Multiculturalism? Environmentalism? Nothing at all? A void? By what right do politicians substitute such ideological emptiness for the beliefs of a child’s parents?