Good Fences Make Good Neighbors
Here is an article that highlights Prince William County’s status as a sanctuary for illegal immigrants.
On Tuesday, our county’s police chief, Chief Charlie T. Deane, reported on the results of the first month of our county’s “anti-immigrant” program.
In all, he said, police made contact with 89 illegal immigrants.
Of those, local charges were placed against 39, 25 were released on traffic or criminal summons and two were taken into custody for federal immigration violations, police said.
Additionally, 21 individuals identified as illegal were released and no charges were placed, Deane said, and two were later determined to be in the country legally.
The felony and misdemeanor charges placed against illegal immigrants since March 3 represent a fraction of arrests typically made in a single month, with the average standing at around 1,100, Deane said. (from here)
Note the number released. Why are we doing that? Does anybody believe this nation is serious about controlling its borders?
Pingback: » Article Reviews #4: Illegal Aliens, Illegal Immigrants Or Whatever You Want To Call Them
Pingback: Article Reviews #4: Illegal Aliens, Illegal Immigrants Or Whatever You Want To Call Them
Why not ask the Chief?
Could be other reasons:
1. The jail is full and ICE didn’t do the “pick-ups” as required.
2. The jail did its job by reporting the immigrants to ICE but that doesn’t mean they must hold people for non-violent crimes.
3. You might have read as well that of the “illegals” PWC took in, ICE released more than 40 of them. Perhaps ICE told the county to do this. I suspect ICE knows something we don’t know as does the Chief.
Until immigration laws are addressed and reformed at the federal level, and not just through enforcement only (which is a costly money pit), this will continue to happen here and across the country no matter how many of our tax dollars our local government chooses to waste.
kgotthardt – “Until immigration laws are addressed and reformed at the federal level, and not just through enforcement only (which is a costly money pit), this will continue to happen here and across the country no matter how many of our tax dollars our local government chooses to waste”
Political warfare is conducted by pinpointing blame. It is important we place that blame where it belongs. When we highlight the fact that the problem exists, the politicians will scurry around blaming everybody else. If people get mad enough, they might even fix the problem.
I’m not sure what you mean about pinpointing blame. Immigration law is federal. Congress can scurry all they want, but these rats can’t hide. They’ve been ignoring the problem and we see the disastrous results all around. But creating more problems because Congress is inept isn’t any more wiser than joining the rats.
kgotthardt – Congress is hiding. They pretend the problem of illegal immigration cannot be solved. That is rank BS! What Prince William County has shown is that even with the most minimal enforcement, illegal immigrant can be encouraged to leave. In addition, our official have demonstrated that encouraging illegal immigrant to leave reduces crime (see here).
http://ca.youtube.com/9500Liberty
PWC is making all immigrants leave because the hate groups have used this to celebrate their racism, intimidate and threaten. Then they do the same to anyone who disagrees with their methods. They have the backing of our Chair and our VICE who have not addressed the problem in a fiscally sound nor morally sound way. There’s another way to deal with the problem without wreaking havoc on our communities and our economy but because the CHAIR and VICE have worked with the CLAN, WE THE PEOPLE have had to deal with the fallout. THEY have not. THEY live in their cushy little racist worlds where being “white is right” and being “brown is down.” Then Stirrup hires an overt racist, Catholic, Muslim, African American hater who slams his OWN VETERANS.
Sorry, Tom–this is the most unchristian, immoral, irresponsible behavior on the part of our elected leaders who chose to listen to a few people, not thousands of people PROTESTING OUTSIDE THEIR CHAMBERS. The BOCS has betrayed us and democracy.
I really don’t want to discuss it any more because my position is clear. I want them OUT OF OFFICE and I want their HENCHMEN GONE. They have no right to be in our government and inflict their racist policy on US. The WAY they have approached this is unacceptable.
Forgot to add: Duecaster is incapable of doing his job but that doesn’t stop the BOCS from letting him serve. There are no standards in this county. They still run it like it’s some hick town where everyone knows each other and no one is really paying attention to what they do. With the influx of population have come an influx of people demanding accountability and transparency. Please read what Bob Marshall has to add:
http://luxuriouschoices.blogspot.com/2008/10/no-criteria-equals-no-trust.html
I have heard the “hate group” retortic spouted over and over again, yet no one can show proof. You site FAIR as a hate group, yet the only proof is what the SPLC has said (which is known to be biased). Just because you feel that they are a hate group does not make them so.
Your group at anti-BVBL tried to start a petition to get Duecaster removed. With 400,000 people in the county, you could only obtain less than 100 signatures and a majority of those signatures where individuals who lived outside of the state or even the country! That does not sound like the majority to me.
“There are no standards in this county. They still run it like it’s some hick town where everyone knows each other and no one is really paying attention to what they do.”
Then move. The BOCS is doing what they were elected to do. Nobody voted for Corey or Stewart and THEN said “oh, wait – I didn’t want them to actually enforce the law!” People voted because they wanted change in the county. It is a majority that wants the law enforced and their neighborhoods safe.
Posting videos by 9500 Liberty is a joke – the videos are just as biased as the people who produce them.
And please tell me how Duecaster is “incapable” of doing his job – he is educated, he’s a lawyer (I believe) and has the interests of the county in mind. Just because you don’t agree with someone doesn’t make them “incapable”.
Concerned, I’m not moving so don’t get your hopes up.
Duescaster’s records speak for themselves. Except no one is revealing them because if they did, they would be exposing a huge embarrassment. You don’t know the full story. Just because someone is a lawyer doesn’t mean a thing! Does Duecaster have any experience working with vulnerable populations and minorities (other than to denigrate and persecute them)? Does he have any experience in social services, social work, or any other civic management (and I don’t count his HSM CLAN)? Do we know why he was chosen? No–because his buddy Stirrup won’t tell us and even if he did, it would be a lie. Stirrup chose Duecaster because Stirrup wants HSM/FAIR/Bigots even more firmly planted in our local government than they are now.
The Anti Defamation League has also reported FAIR and HSM and not in a positive way. If they can’t convince you of the hate group status, then I certainly cannnot either and will not be bothered trying because your mind is closed.
I’m going to repeat this only one more time: this is about the WAY our county is handling its issues, not that it IS handling the issues. Yes, people wanted something “done” about crowding, etc. But the WAY in which they handle things is irresponsible, unethical, and damaging. And they PEOPLE they choose to handle these problems is unacceptable in many cases.
BTW, how is 9500Liberty a joke when they tape, word for word, what Stewart said at the local VOICE meeting? Do you think they had to tamper with any of it to make Stewart look like a jerk? Nope. Stewart is quite capable of doing that all by his little self.
One more suggestion–if Stirrup is that gung-ho to have his buddy Duecaster serve on a committee, why not put him on a different one? Duecaster IS a lawyer. Why not have him serve, say, on the planning commission where it seems he is less connected, would have a more objective perspective and can do his job without letting his personal issues against racial and relgious groups get in the way?
kgotthardt – I do not know Duecaster, but I have yet to see much evidence of racism in Prince William’s policy towards illegal immigrants. What I do perceive is people complaining that anything at all is being done about the problem.
What your last comment does is illustrate your own lack of objectivity. Otherwise you would not have made such a silly proposal.
Duecaster is serving as a volunteer. People volunteer their service on matters where they have an interest, not on matters where they have no interest. So your proposal is simply unrealistic.
kgotthardt -
The attack was hardly warranted. I have lived in PWC for 12 years and am well aware of what is going on in my county. Don’t assume that I don’t know the full story and from the way that you are continually avoiding the question of showing proof, it sounds like you don’t know the whole story either. In fact, the only people that know the “whole” story is the BOCS. On your blog, you have repeatedly asked for a FOIA about it and have been given the information, yet you continue to bother the BOCS about the same information that you have been given at least twice.
“No–because his buddy Stirrup won’t tell us and even if he did, it would be a lie. Stirrup chose Duecaster because Stirrup wants HSM/FAIR/Bigots even more firmly planted in our local government than they are now.”
Please, tell me why it would be a lie. You continue to say that he is racist/bigot/etc but can not offer up proof. You have comments on a blog that cannot be attributed to him (insisting that he posts as “Advocator” when there is no proof as such). Are the other volunteers up to the same amount of scrutiny? I seem to remember that one volunteer is acting as a voice for a district that she does not even live in. Why is that not being questioned? Why are you not asking the same as the other members who volunteered? If it is such a concern, then why have you not asked the other volunteers about their background in social services, what their motives are and request a background check on them? I have the feeling that it is because you don’t see them as a “threat” and have a vendetta against Stewart, Corey and now Duecaster.
And please don’t tell me that my mind is closed because I don’t agree with you. That is childish and immature. What is close minded is the belief that what you feel is “right” is the only opinion that matters.
So, the “way” that it was handled was incorrect? Has there been documented “denigration and persecution” as you state? I was in Manassass this past weekend and saw many individuals who were Hispanic out shopping, playing in their yards, going about their daily lives and even (gasp!) speaking Spanish in public. If there was such racism and hatred in the county, do you think that this would be happening? You have equated the resolution to Nazi Germany many times, yet I don’t see people hiding in other people’s attics and the county setting up concentration camps.
The ADL reported on HSM because they were given information that was false by individuals who have alternative motives. That has been proven. Again, just because a few individuals in the county feel that HSM and FAIR are hate groups (when no proof is offered up), doesn’t make it so. In the eyes of some, Anti-BVBL members could be spun into a hate group because of the way that the words racist, bigot, Nazi, Xenophobe are thrown out to anyone that disagrees with them.
This is why I’m not going to continue this conversation. I’ve stated my points over and over and over. As far as Committees, I’ve received an email from Marty Nohe saying the concerns I’ve brought forth about the paperwork and process are something the BOCS should consider.
Racism: BVBL, HSM, and their connections with Stewart, Stirrup and Duecaster. The ADL doesn’t take such things lightly and neither do I. When people stop referring to immigrants as “parasites,” rejoicing over CHILDREN leaving the county, bragging there are “no brown faces at the bus stop” then you can expect me to hush up. Until that time, I look forward to justice being served….and it will be.
And you just proved my point, Concerned…..”speaking Spanish…Hispanics.”
Because we ALL know “illegals” are Hispanic, right?
Hide in the sand if you want.
And make no mistake that I have sources outside of Anti.
These standards should apply to ALL PUBLIC OFFICIALS, volunteer and otherwise. Ethics and signing some papers isn’t a lot to ask of the people who are supposed to be representing US.
From: Katherine
To: Relyea, Sally T.
Cc: Jenkins, John D. ; Easterly, Kelly L. (and after, BOCS)
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Request for Forms – Boards, Committees and Commissions
Thank you very much.
I would like to note that neither this form nor the job descriptions require any of the following:
1. Background checks (required even for the most mundane volunteer work for non-profits)
2. Signed ethics statements and requirements for public officials.
3. Conflict of interest disclosures and rules addressing conflicts of interest.
4. Assessment of qualifications and justification for appointment.
This is unacceptable, in my opinion.
Furthermore, I think it is a major conflict of interest to have any relative of any BOCS member suggesting policy to the BOCS. While there are many capable family members and friends who could do the job, I would suggest they do it in another capacity, for example, through a non-profit or unrelated agency.
Finally, citizens have requested an explanation of John Stirrup’s choice in Robert Duecaster given his history, affiliations, methods, lack of fiscal and social responsibility and questionable military background. We have yet to receive a suitable response indicating Duecaster’s benevolent intentions for this county and its most vulnerable people.
Sincerely,
Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
Brentsville District
____________________________________
Katherine-
Thank you for these comments. While I don’t necessarily agree with all of your conclusions, I think you do make some legitimate points that I think the Board should consider.
Yours-
Marty
Martin E Nohe
Coles District Supervisor
703-792-4620
Concerned, Corey (you?) seem to dismiss:
1. The SPLC as biased
2. The ADL as having been lied to
3. The Human Rights Commission as having no business being here
4. The Civil Rights Commission as having no business being here
5. Thousands of people protesting outside BOCS chambers (who just don’t count or matter)
6. The religious communities who wrote a joint letter to which the response was essentially ‘mind your own business’
Vendetta? No. Serious issue with our local government and the racism that has overtly entered it? Serious problems with a government that doesn’t listen?
YES!
Received from BOCS: Below is the ONLY document used to assess a nomintation to Citizen Advisory Boards. Each position DOES have a job description, but nominations and resume forms are not evalutated.
________________________________________
Prince William County, VA
Boards, Committees, and Commissions
RESUME
Name:
Address:
Home Telephone No.: Office Telephone No.:
Fax No.: E-mail Address:
Length of residence in Prince William County:
Board, Committee, or Commission in which you are interested:
Statement of nominee’s qualifications, and/or interest in the appointment:
The above information will be included in the Prince William County Boards, Committees, and Commissions Manual. This information will also be posted on the Prince William County website. Please contact the Clerk to the Board of County Supervisors at (703) 792-6600 if you have any questions or concerns.
kgotthardt – First you launch a personal attack on Duecaster. Then you attack the process that selected him? If the process is suspect, I guess that makes EVERYONE selected by it suspect.
While perfection is a nice objective, we never achieve it. So it is that our county’s efforts to encourage illegal immigrants to leave our county will probably never satisfy you. Nonetheless, it is apparent that is the criteria you are insisting upon.
Please take a breather. With such an extreme position, you risk annoying more people than you persuade.
Tom, what is so extreme about asking for transparency, accountability and reliability? These are, after all, the people who WRITE our policies. Pesonal attacks against Duecaster? No. Attack on poor government? Yup.
Duecaster is a public figure. I use public information. Hence…not personal. If he wasn’t in my government and wanted to spout off, then fine. I could easily ignore him. But the fact is…he’s in MY government. And everyone else’s.
This goes way above and beyond anthing related to immigration as evidenced by the discussion around conflict of interest which Bob Marshall brought up at the last Committee 100 program. Apparently, there are people who developed the comprehensive plan who own property on the very land they are discussing as part of county business–major conflict. This isn’t just about Duecaster. It’s about the way we do business in this county.
Yeah, I’m annoying. But lots of people are. People who continue to speak up and out are labeled “annoying” and other things all the time, so I might as well live up to the reputation.
To clarify—Bob Marshall didn’t say there were people who owned land on that planning committee. He implied there may be a conflict of interest and I heard from another source about the land ownership. He discussed issues with the process of citizen boards and committees….the very thing I am bringing up in these discussions.
“3. The Human Rights Commission as having no business being here
4. The Civil Rights Commission as having no business being here
5. Thousands of people protesting outside BOCS chambers (who just don’t count or matter)
6. The religious communities who wrote a joint letter to which the response was essentially ‘mind your own business’”
I never said these things in my post. I simply stated that both the SPLC and the ADL have specific agendas. Please stop attacking. I am not Corey Stewart, so stop making assumptions.
My question still stands – are you asking this information for all of the volunteers, or just the ones that you disagree with? Because it seems like you are on a hunt for one specific person, instead of looking at all.
Stop making me out to be a racist. EVERY response on anti is about hispanics – in fact, the recent discussion about ESOL classes was centered around spanish speaking individuals. Did you know that I volunteered to teach ESOL classes at my church? That I am active in education and work with children who are citizens but their parents aren’t? If I was such a racist, I doubt I would do this.
You need to find an outlet for your anger. You make attacks on people and the government without much to back it up. When you volunteer, do you have to provide a resume and all of the things that you are asking for? I have done volunteer work and have never had to supply a resume, background check, property holdings, etc.
Tom is correct – you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Your rhetoric is simply causing others to avoid listening to what you are saying and turn a deaf ear.
Concerned, I have listed the groups that have criticized the way PWC has handled the immigration issue because there are MANY (I forgot to add the United Way in Utah). I know you didn’t say anything about these groups in your posting. I was merely trying to point out that it’s not just me, SPLC and the ADL saying it. It’s literally THOUSANDS of people!PWC has ignored ALL these people!
I know you aren’t Corey Stewart. I meant perhaps you and he share the same opinions. And really, I’m not attacking you. But I am VERY tired of repeating myself. It’s frustrating.
YES I am saying improve this process and make EVERYONE do it. Did you see the article on the Planning Commission that now has to be investigated by the Attorney General? My blog has more on this (which is why I get frustrated, because I’m repeating this information here, to the BOCS, and in other places).
I don’t think you are racist. But I DO know there are overt racists in this county and in our government. This is unacceptable. The way to “encourage illegals to leave” as Tom puts it is NOT to intimidate and encourage racists, but that’s exactly what this county has done. Then Corey Stewart brags about it!
YES I have had to provide a resume AND have a background check to volunteer for both non-profits and government agencies. Especially when you are volunteering for a government agency, when there is sensitive information, you MUST have to sign something. Even the schools are now requiring higher security measures for volunteers, including signing forms that volunteers will not discuss students (i.e. gossip).
My frustrations: When the BOCS doesn’t listen to thousands of people; when our government makes stupid decisions that hurt our county; when I have to repeat myself over and over and over; when we have racists in our government.
Therefore, it seems blogs and letter writing are the PERFECT outlet for my frustrations when I can’t get to a public meeting and spout off in a more professional manner. You might also note I don’t spout off quite so vehemently when I write letters to our local government.
As far as honey and vinegar? If Robert Duecaster, a PUBLIC OFFICIAL wants to claim his bile as free speech, why can’t I? It obvioulsy hasn’t hurt HIS chances at being listened to. And I’m not half as mean in real life as he and his CLAN is. So why the double standard?
kgotthardt – The people on the BOC were elected by thousands of people. Those are the people our BOCS is suppose to listen to, and those are the people that our BOCS has listened to.
LOL! Okay, Red….so the BOCS only has to listen to those who voted for them and agree with them?? Yeah. Right. Last I checked, ALL of us pay taxes. Last I checked, the BOCS has to have some accountability when they WASTE our tax dollars. The BOCS has to serve ALL of us, not just HSM or developers or their other little pets.
BTW, the thousands of people protesting outside their doors were completely ignored, as were all these other citizen and resligious groups (see above). So don’t give me the “they’ve listened to the majority” crap. They’ve been SELECTIVELY listening.